Manufacturers - do it yourself online

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
10

Hi LisaL0115.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Because of the uncertainty involved in “replicating a mattress” the risk of getting it just right is much higher… unless of course all the components, layers and design or your DIY “build” is an exact replica and matches in every way the mattress you have tested or slept on (in effect resulting is the same mattress). “Replicating” a mattress component by component in view of a DIY mattress based only on “specs” without the specific guidance of a manufacturer/retailer that is familiar with your reference mattress and materials is unreliable because in most cases:

[indent]

  1. Consumers would tend to rely only on the ILD of the layers or other more basic specs which by themselves can be very misleading and inaccurate because of any design specific properties, response, or factors that can make a significant difference in how a mattress feels and performs.
  2. Consumers don’t have access to all the information they would need about either the mattress they are using as a reference point or all the components they are gathering to make a meaningful comparison and even if they did (which is rare) most consumers wouldn’t have the knowledge or experience to be able to “translate” how the many seemingly small differences between two mattresses may either accumulate or offset each other and “feel” in real life.
  3. Also sometimes what a consumer “thinks they need” is often different from “what they really need” and this is better done with the guidance of a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer will usually be more focused on “what they really need”. [/indent]
    The “target” with these types of choices is generally how closely a consumer believes one mattress will match the one that they are building which is often very inaccurate, this is why I always suggest that those who take on a DIY mattress replication project work closely with a manufacturer who is familiar with all the components of the “blueprint” mattress .

Avena is a High Resiliency polyfoam which is high quality and durable material introduced by Carpenter in 2010 that has “latex like qualities”. It is more costly than conventional polyfoam but not as costly as many more premium foam materials such as higher quality memory foam or latex. You can read a bit more about Avena here. To find something similar in terms of quality and durability you may wish to check out the foam suppliers listed in the same thread in Post #4 here ( a few links were recently updated) with latex being the closest in feel, but you may wish to talk to each of the manufacturers you are considering purchasing the component from to see how closely they compare.

Arizona Premium Mattress (member of this site) has a cover that would fit your criteria and generally a large selection of mattress covers, bamboo, organic wool cover, organic cotton. The zipper is made with Teflon and zips around all four corners making it easy to assemble. Some models come in sizes from 6" to 15"

You may also wish to contact some of the manufacturer members below who make their own covers to see if they would be willing to adjust mattress size for you.

Latex Mattress Factory (member of this site) has a removable and washable 360-degree zipper cotton cover from 2" to 12" in thickness.

Memory Foam Comfort(member of this site…Canada) carries zippered and removable Tencel (eucalyptus), Bamboo, Teddy (terry cloth) or Wool quilted 100% organic cotton sizes 4-12".

Sleep EZ (member of this site) has Natural and Organic cotton & wool Zippered Mattress covers between 6" and 12" in thickness

Sleep On Latex (one of our members) has organic cotton covers sizes from 1 to 12" in thickness which has a zipper all around and allows for the top part to be removed and washed. They can also custom make them but it takes a little longer to ship.

Sleeping Organic (member of this site) has organic full zip off covers that can be custom made with or without wool.

It seems that you are in the latest stages of your “built” and hopefully some of the information listed above will be assistive with your DIY.

Phoenix

11

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. Of course, you are correct, in assuming that I’m looking to closely match the numerical ratings of the components of the Sapira and have no knowledge of each “part” other than basic information.

I suppose I didn’t realize that getting one foam with the same density and firmness rating may not be that similar in feel to a different foam with the same ratings. The learning curve for this is HUGE!!

I have to say that maybe I’m overestimating my knowledge and ability to take on this project. While my current mattress has GOT to go, and most anything would be an upgrade at this point, I’m worried of sinking over a thousand dollars into a project that fails. On the other hand, buying a $1,600 bed is really out of the question for me at this point so I’m unsure of how to move forward.

I’m not sure if it is really this complicated or I’m making it this complicated. When I’ve looked in mattress stores or online and been “matched” to a mattress from a manufacturer, I’ve been unhappy with the suggestions. Which is in part, why I’m choosing to DIY. I’m a side sleeper, and 140lbs so everyone wants to put me in a softer mattress. I hate them! A lot of people complain the Sapira is too firm, but for me it’s perfect at it’s firmness of 6 -6.5 on the scale.

At the end of the day - what I’m looking to build is a 6 to 6.5 firmness rating that has the bounce and support of latex and no sink of memory foam. I’ve had foam toppers and an all foam mattress and I dislike them. I suppose I’m going to re-evaluate my material choices based on your feedback.

12

To All,

We are now offering Do it yourself Mattresses. For cores and comfort layers you can choose from 2lb HD foam (high density) 2.75lb HR foam (high resilience) 4lb & 5lb memory foam and organic dunlop latex. For the mattress covers we offer the top zip covers for easy access to all the loose layers, and are available in Bamboo, Tencel (eucalyptus), Teddy (velour terry) or wool quilted 100% organic cotton.

13

Hi LisaL0115.

A DIY can be a great way to go and can certainly represent tremendous value and also has the ability to closely “duplicate” the feel of many if not most of the commercial mattresses that are sold in the “bricks and mortar” stores provided that there is appropriate knowledge behind the build, some field-testing and … more reliably … the guidance of an experienced manufacturer/retailer.

I understand your frustration… while the level of knowledge of the staff in many outlets may vary, I’d say that generally sales reps of large chain stores or larger national brands have a level of knowledge that it is usually restricted to what they have been told or taught about how to sell the specific mattresses they carry and have been given some very general guidelines about matching sleeping positions with levels of comfort. This type of advice can do more harm than good and is the opposite of what I mean by advice coming from an experienced and knowledgeable retailer/manufacturer that has consumer’s interests at heart. This is why it is so important that consumers learn to discriminate between marketing people and the real mattress people who are manufacturers and retailers that give consumers facts, better information, better service, advice, and finally better value. Knowing who they are and where to find them is just as important as knowing what should be inside your perfect mattress.

I wouldn’t use or trust any kind of firmness rating or “theory” as anything more than a general guideline that is subject to change based on your own unique preferences and circumstances. There is no such thing as firmness scale and the best a scale can do is to rate mattresses made by the same manufacturer against each other and create an internal firmness rating scale (which most retailers/manufacturers do) to help the shopper compare models to each other in terms of firmness. This is to say that there no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. As you’ve experienced different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. In other words … the only reliable way to know whether a mattress will be “firm enough” or “soft enough” for you will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience.

All in all, you seem to be heading in a good direction. You’ve determined the type of mattress and feel you prefer according to your particular needs which is a good starting point. Many people go the DIY route I’ve seen you contacted one of the manufacturers who has a great deal of experience in helping DIY customers. Generally, there are two ways to make effective initial choices for the design and feel of a mattress that is the best match for you. One is with your own careful and objective testing and the other would be through more detailed conversations on the phone with a knowledgeable manufacturer/retailer where you can provide them with more information that can help them use “averages” and your own past experiences as a way to help you make the best choice.

Phoenix

@MFC

Thanks for mentioning the new DIY offerings, especially for the Canadian market that has fewer options available, we’ll make sure to update MFC’s business profile on TMU to reflect this.

14

Hello all. Like many others here I am new to latex and so I, too, really appreciate all the knowledge shared here!

I am starting my own DIY build. I have trouble evaluating a mattress in a store so I am taking Phoenix’s “Option 3” approach and starting from scratch despite the risks and my lack of experience. I am 38, male, 6’1", 205 lbs and have lower back pain in the morning. 60-70% side-sleeper, 30-40% back-sleeper.

For flexibility in zoning and switching layers I’m using 2" layers instead of 3". Based on other posts this might mean softer “layer interaction” but Sleep On Latex said it should still work. I ordered 1" of 20 ILD (SOL), 2" of 30 ILD (SOL), 2" 36 ILD (AzPM) and 2" of 44 ILD (SOL), all natural Dunlop. “Springy” doesn’t sound good to me but I might try Talalay later if needed.

First I plan to try various un-zoned combinations of thicknesses by doubling-up certain layers. I’ll then buy the additional layer needed and/or exchange one (Sleep on Latex allows one return/exchange). However, even if I find a pretty good combination I expect to experiment with zoning since I can always undo it (albeit with cuts through the layers).

I am including a diagram of some likely zoning combinations to test. I tried to follow Phoenix’s guideline of solving support issues (lumbar in my case) with lower layers while solving pressure point issues (shoulder in my case) with upper layers. The red and orange lines are my actual side and back profiles traced from pictures while standing and stretched to exact scale.

I’m also trying to avoid extra costs so I have cannibalized the lower layers of the foot of the mattress. Plus, if I end up with a 2" soft layer then I might try firming up the head to gain material for the shoulder zone, and since I have trouble using a thick enough pillow anyway.

Any advice or comments are greatly appreciated!

15

Hi JBB0,

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Your approach to designing your own DIY is certainly very creative and you have some innovative ideas with which would be probably better served in a product development environment. Thanks for taking the time to create the graphics that go with your DIY… Every great idea was born as in response to a certain need.

Because there are so many variables and personal and subjective perceptions the right answers to your questions would come from your own testing and from the way your body will respond and interact with each of the layouts over a long enough period of time. I’d certainly continue in the same scientific manner you’ve started and perhaps keep in mind a few things while you go through the testing period.

  1. I’d make sure to change only one variable at a time and to keep a record your observations and findings but also give the change enough time for the real effects to “settle” in before moving to the next build.
  2. Assess each of the layout designs for more than a week or two before you decide if it is a good enough fit… you’d need to give your body a chance to adapt to the new sleeping surface and unlearn and let go of any “postural fix” that the body trained itself to “learn” in coping with any postural stress before returning to a state of “normality”
  3. Keep some notes of your experiments with both quantitative and qualitative data to help testing comparisons . (things like … how long it takes you to fall asleep … duration of your sleep)
  4. It would be also helpful if you’d have some type of monitoring device that records your movement during the night .
  5. Although any qualitative type of assessment is more inaccurate some good indicators would be how well and energetic you feel in the morning and so on and the level of pain on a scale of 1-10

Regarding your pains in the morning especially if they are “entrenched” or chronic I’d keep in mind that you’d need much longer adjustment periods when you make any changes and that some gentle coaching of the body, tissues, and joints to destress and relax. There is a good article by Paul Ingraham about some causes of back pains here and you may also want to check out some interesting facts related to body alignment here and here.

A few general thoughts about your designs:
While propping up the lumbar area with a firmer zoning for added support might work well in some cases, designs C and E would probably have the least chance of success even if the combination was just right to fill in the lumbar area gap… the apex of the firm “pyramid” under your lumbar would place your body on a sort of fulcrum and any small shifts that come with normal repositioning during the course of the night will throw off this arrangement. We commonly reposition between 20 to 40 times (even if people don’t often recall it) and this type of design could “lock” you in a certain position that is most likely difficult to maintain for too long. Whether awake or asleep the body is always in motion and both minute oscillatory and larger movements occur in all body parts. There is an analogy in the comfort section of the basic functions of a mattress article here that talks about this in more detail

I won’t be able to tell how much thickness would be enough to relieve your shoulder pressure points but the chances are that your shoulders would go right through the 1" of 20 ILD to the 4" of 30 ILD which could be a bit too firm for a (60-70%) side-sleeper…. But again, this depends on your preferences, needs and body shape. I’d say that it’s worth experimenting with a little more plushness for your shoulder pressure points.

This is a good starting point that would allow you to collect enough data points before “cannibalizing” more of the layers :slight_smile: It looks like fun and it’ll be very interesting if you could document the results of your testing and share it with us. You certainly have many layers to play with to find a good combination that works well for you.

Phoenix

16

Thank you, this is really great! I will definitely take it slow, document results, and report back on how things progress.

17

I almost fell off my bed when I read cannibalized!
Thank you for that!
Mercy. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL,
Sleepy Catte

18

Soon after the first hour of testing I started to develop a fairly bad allergic reaction to the latex. I guess I’m one of the lucky 1%-8% with a latex allergy. After reading posts here and elsewhere it seems the general consensus is that latex can still be safe to use in many cases but I’m a little nervous about it given the short exposure time, the fairly bad reaction (which stretched from my finger to my back on the side I was laying on), and the fact that it was covered by two sheets (although no ticking/protector/cover). However, it’s also possible that I might have rested my arm directly on the latex for a brief period while doubling-up layers and only covering the doubled-up part with the sheets.

I’m now weighing options between (A) pressing on and substituting memory foam or high performance polyfoam as the top layer, combined with a cover/ticking plus an additional protector or two, or (B) scrapping all the latex and starting over with high-performance polyfoam throughout (or high resilience, if these two are different).

So, I’m wondering if anybody has had similar experiences or any general thoughts on how to proceed. Also, is Option B even possible as a DIY route (I can’t seem to find individual layers using HD/HR/HP foam so readily like latex) or would I have to settle for an “un-zonable” whole mattress?

19

Hi JB80.

I am sorry that you seem to be one of the “lucky 1%-8% with a latex allergy” :frowning:

Because the latex used in mattresses is vulcanized, it is quite unusual that the first encounter with an allergic reaction to latex would occur without any other previous warning or signs when in contact with other product containing latex … so before deciding on your next step re your mattress I’d certainly make sure to have the allergy confirmed and evaluated by a healthcare professional to ascertain completely what you may be reacting to, as unless you’ve had a previous positive latex diagnosis it could be something other than latex, including some of the chemicals used to make latex. Allergic contact dermatitis (thanks for providing the image of the affected area) can be clinically diagnosed by a licensed independent healthcare professional that would look at your medical history, along with a physical exam, and possibly patch skin testing to the offending agent.

Attached below are some of the Pdfs provided by the Latex Allergy Resources.Org on their website (right now their site seems to be unreachable) which describe the differences between the sensitivities (and allergy) that can happen with latex.

https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/66/LatexCross-reactivefoodsFactSheet

https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/66/LatexAllergyInformation

https://https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/66/LatexAllergy:ANAPHYLAXISFactSheet

https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/66/LatexAllergy:AsthmaandOccupationalAsthmaFactSheet
Most of the allergic reactions when in contact with finished rubber products tend to occur when the products are made with the dipping method rather than the vulcanization process used for producing the latex layers used in mattresses.

I’d be interested find out what you’ve learned about this unexpected reaction.

Phoenix

20

Thanks, Phoenix. I’m on a HDHP and it appears the cost of the office visit(s) and tests might exceed the cost of the mattress. Plus, whether it is the latex or the chemicals, or even if it seemed to be a random coincidence, I think I would still hesitate. The only similar reaction I can remember was discovering my penicillin allergy as a child.

I found a TMU discussion on the limited number of HR polyfoam vendors so I think I’m now going to order HR layers and run the same plan. You mentioned in that thread that Foam Online appears reputable and I agree they seem transparent in their stats, which include a good support factor of 2.5. I’ll probably start with 2" layers of 20, 30, 40, and 50 ILD (densities below provided by phone). Either the ILDs seem a little higher per firmness than latex or Foam Online’s might be slightly skewed to fit into their ILD table, but I can add a final layer wherever necessary in the stack.

15 ILD, 2.8lb, Very Soft
20 ILD, 2.8lb, Med Soft
30 ILD, 2.8lb, Medium
40 ILD, 2.8lb, Med Firm
50 ILD, 3.0lb, Firm
70 ILD, 3.0lb, Extra Firm

Also, I’ve read a lot of reviews on T&N mattresses, which are mostly very positive but the negative ones complain of the support breaking down after a year or so. TMU mentions 1.8lb HD foam is not very durable so I guess this might be the reason. I’m hoping the 2.8lb-3.0lb HR foam will avoid this, and Foam Online claims 3X longer longevity over the 1.9lb HD that they also sell (12 years vs 4 years).

Thanks again for all the info. I’ll still report results as planned, and hopefully this will still be useful to others regardless of which material they use.

21

How do I create a supportive mattress out of latex ? I tend to like firm support with a little cushy top. I am so frustrated i went to sears and found a firm beautyrest innersprig mattress that felt really good which tempted me to throw in the towel. I currently have 3" dunlop (30ILD) & 2" talalay (19ILD) to work with and can send both back or find another way to get badly needed support(Been using conv foam and memory foam to give some thickness so not feeling the boards) . I am more than willing to toss the foam once better option given. It has been suggested to try 24ild, but wouldn’t that keep it on softer end? Also was suggested hybrid or all latex mattress. It seems I almost have an all latex ,just missing the suppotiveness to get rid of lower back pain. My hips drop down so alignment is off. I have posted before nut don’t think I was very clear with what I was asking. Thanks

22

Hi Kristy93292.

Like all other components in a mattress, latex too comes in higher ILDs that would make it an ideal supportive layer within a mattress (Firm, Xfirm between 32 to 44 ILD would be a good application of it). The goal is to determine the best layering configuration for you … but from the description of your current setup, you are clearly missing the support (base layer) that would ensure that you have enough primary support to keep your spine in neutral alignment, the 3" of medium Dunlop would help with some of the secondary support needed but it would not be enough to provide adequate primary support. There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well as you go through this process.

I was not able to find your previous posting detailing this but generally, I’d keep in mind that the different layers in a mattress are usually designed in such a way that the complete mattress will have both supportive qualities and pressure relieving qualities. The core of the mattress which is the middle and bottom parts (usually innersprings, latex, or higher quality polyfoam) is the part that is primarily responsible for supporting the heavier parts of your body and keeping them from sinking in too far.

I can certainly understand your frustration … not having a supportive sleeping surface is usually the main reason for lower back pains and this is also the main difference between sinking in and sinking down I’ve been using in the hammock example. If you lie on a hammock your middle parts will sink “DOWN” further than the upper and lower parts of your body even though you are not sinking “IN” to the surface of the hammock at all. Sinking "IN is all about the depth or your pressure relieving cradle while sinking DOWN is all about whether one part is “traveling” too far relative to the others.

The first step is to try to work out a way to determine if the heavier parts of your body are sinking in too far and add an appropriate base layer. You did not mention your BMI and sleeping position which also are important in assuring that yoiu do not have too thick/soft comfort layer for your needs. Ultimately only you can feel what you feel on the mattress because we are all built differently and have different needs and preferences which makes it a bit of a trial and error process. This is all part of the 'art and science" of mattress design and is part of the reason why working with an “expert” can be so valuable. Your “job” is to describe the symptoms as accurately and specifically as you can … their role is to use their knowledge and experience to the best of their ability to help you decide on the types of changes that have the best odds of solving the issues you are facing with your DIY project.

Phoenix

23

Thank you for the helpful information.

24

Hello Phoenix and other experts.

First off, thanks for no-nonsense information provided on this site.
Secondly, thanks for putting up with questions that don’t always provide enough information to adequately answer. I’m going to try to not be that guy :).

Trying to hone in on a good next step after several failed mattress replacement attempts. Feeling a bit overwhelmed at all the [mis]information and marketing out there, so glad I’ve found TMU.

My summary: I’m 5’10", 165 lbs, wiiide shoulders, straight waist. Side sleeper who wishes I could sleep on stomach, has been told to sleep on back for health reasons, which has proven hard to retrain. Sciatica the last few years. Always thought of myself as a light, “picky” sleeper. Mattresses mostly feel either supportive but not comfortable (inadequate pressure point relief - toss and turn due to sore sides) or comfortable but not supportive enough (sore and tight back in the middle of the night).

My spouse: 5’4", 115 lbs, pretty wide hips. Side sleeper who would sleep on a cloud if she could. Likes a lot of cushion. Support doesn’t seem to have been a concern with mattresses we’ve tried.

History:
Our 11 year old Denver Mattress sleep number knock-off is finally done. We bought the cheaper model which didn’t have any pillow top, and then added a 3" memory foam topper from BedBathAndBeyond. Knowing the top layer is what tends to wear out first I felt like I had made a smart purchase. Great mattress for spouse. Not for me - the 3" foam topper was too thick and not dense enough to adequately support me. I tolerated years of back ache before I realized the best thing to do was cut that topper in half and not have one on my side. Looked silly, but an improvement. Also the head/foot zone of the air mattress could be made lower than the midsection by way of adjusting the air pressure, which helped me get the much-needed increased side section support.

What we have tried…over the last couple years now.

  • Simmons BeautyRest? from The Mattress Firm - seemed amazing in the store. Expensive for its performance, and didn’t seem to be holding up and not so comfortable overnight. At the store we seemed to have proper alignment. But I guess it wasn’t quite supportive or comfortable enough? in the end - although I don’t totally recall now.
  • Leesa - all-foam bed-in-a-box. I think it was not quite comfortable enough, a bit too firm.
  • Helix mattress - configurable bed in a box with microcoils - didn’t hold up long at all. At first it seemed adequately supportive and each side was going to work for each of us, but then it started feeling different as if it was “breaking in” - or was it “breaking down?” Didn’t matter, seemed to be losing its support.
  • Novacore foam mattress - just too firm for us, and also seemed to start breaking in/down quickly. Was a cheap gamble, but Costco has a great return policy.
  • Serta Hillgate 3 - guest bed I’m using at the moment, almost a year old, “luxury firm” pocket coil that supposedly has an inch or so of memory foam but clearly has some other mystery content. It is on the firm side for sure, supportive but makes my sides sore. Also, I can tell which part has broken in b/c you sleep a little more “in” than “on” those sections and yet don’t feel as supported as the less worn-in sections.

All this to say we are a bit gunshy right now but need a solution badly. We are aware of the need to match the pillow to the boyancy of the mattress for side-sleeping, and have pillows with adjustable quantity latext pellets to address that. I have learned a think pillow at my feet and between my legs can tricks to elevate legs I can do help mitigate the sciatica symptoms.

I believe where I go from here is trying out either 100% Dunlop latex or get lucky with hybrid coils with dunlop. Dunlop’s graduated densities and its support ramping-up as you compress-it seem to make sense. Also avoiding memory foam and low-quality mystery filler!

We recently went to a TMU-suggested store in Austin TX (Urban Mattress) to try out an all-latex model for PPP. Surprisingly the salesperson didn’t carry it, but instead showed me the Obasan 12" mattress. It seemed based on a brief lay down that a 100% latex, with the correct densities and configurations, might just be the winner. But $6500 is A crazy amount of non-refundable money throw down without having more assurance that it is not just comfy but supportive. We based our prior purchases on a lot of research and/or a store visit, and none of them really worked out.

One thing going for the Obasan is that the middle layer can be zoned - equal thirds head to foot. So for example the configuration of bottom 4" layer being medium, top 4" layer being soft, and the middle 4" layer being soft at the head zone, medium at the mid section zone, and firm at the foot zone, it felt comfortable but seemed my hips were maybe slightly low. When we pointed this out, salesperson said probably the best for me would be to swap the midsection and foot pieces to get my waist up just a hair. Seemed likely true, although he didn’t seem willing to swap them to confirm, and not sure if the transition between head section and waist is going to feel wierd going from soft to firm.

I’ve seen several refernences to other Canadian all latex mattresses, but I just haven’t come across a cost-effective (high value) option that is zoned and configurable quite like the Obasan. Ideally I’d find something that is half the price or less, same quality latex, and allowed you to swap zoned layers around to get it right. Basically I’m looking for affordable yet quality zoned DIY layers. Obasan, AFAICT, is unique in three ways:
1- zoned, reconfigurable layers
2- 4" layers rather than 3
3- can use a “soft” dunlop option

Regarding 1, it seems swappable density zones works similarly to how I used the air mattress height adjustability which I believe makes success more achievable then a one-size-fits-all approach. Are any other makers doing this?
Regarding 2, 4" seems to be getting pretty tall and makes me a bit concerned about getting proper support over the duration of a night of sleep? Any thoughts?
Regarding 3, TMU suggests manufacturers are concerned that soft dunlop won’t hold up. Still true?

The cozypure DIY seems reasonable although still not zoned, and their warranty for DIY being a third of their non-DIY makes me want to know their latex is quality. I’ll reach out to them about source and zoning. Maybe they will cut them if I ask and buy that extra piece of firm.

Knowing the quality of the latex side question is a whole second concern of mine. Funny I’ve never read anyone describe their latex as class B or class 2. Yet they probably are not all actually the same quality.

If anyone is curious, Obasan rates their latex ILD as follows:
soft: 20-22, medium 32-35, firm 38-42
and their densities as follows:
soft: 65k/sq m3
medium: 75 k/sq m3
firm 85 k/sq m3

25

Hello Zachbaker,

You give a lot of great info above and I’ll leave some bits for others to comment on but I can weigh in on the latex options.

Your three criteria are exactly the same conclusion I was coming to as I was reading your story.
1- zoned, reconfigurable layers
The zoned layer or rather cut and chopped layers, would let you create a similar feel to your Denver mattress that you liked.

2- 4" layers rather than 3
Yes, or 4 3" layers. Either way, a total of 12" sounds best for your situation. While some people with your weights might be comfortable on 6" of latex, sensitive sleepers need depth to play with the firmness of the layers.
If your wife can sleep on a cloud and you have wide shoulders, perhaps you need quite a bit of softness before the support, something like 6", rather than just 3" and maybe that top layer should be an extra soft, not just soft. If you are working with 3" layers, you then have the option to graduate the feel to the firmest density on the bottom, in other word, soft/soft/medium/firm rather than soft/soft/firm/firm. The firm/firm would definitely be an option and would provide more support, but would be felt more distinctly because the transition to the firm layer would be fairly noticeable.

3- can use a “soft” dunlop option
Dunlop processed latex makes a great top layer.

26

Hi Zachbaker,

I actually have an Obasan Acadia 3.0 queen mattress that I purchased 2 years ago. After sleeping on all-latex, my husband and I realized we missed our old traditional mattress and that our sleep preference is with inner spring, not latex. So, we decided to repurpose our mattress by purchasing pocketed coils as our core base. We no longer need the rest of the Obasan, and we are trying to figure out what to do with those layers. I am not sure where you are located, or if I am allowed to resell my Obasan components on this forum, but when I find out, I would be happy to sell either all layers except the comfort top layer, or the whole thing.

The Obasan 3.0 is configured as follows with ILD’s based on what Obasan has told me:

Soft ILD 20-22 Dunlop latex
Med ILD 32-35 Dunlop latex
Firm ILD 38-42 Dunlop latex

Top layer: 2" soft (1 queen size piece)
Mid layer: 4" Zoned with 2 each of soft, medium, firm (total of 6 pieces)
Base layer: 4" 1 side is firm, 1 side is medium (total of 2 pieces, one for each sleeper)

Each piece of latex is individually wrapped in a zippered cover made of organic cotton. A zippered organic cotton and wool case holds it all together.

27

Hi zachbaker,

Welcome to our mattress forum :).

Thank you for the great detail. it always makes it easy to add a few general comments and some thoughts. Thank you DIYnaturalbedding for chiming in … much appreciated! (DIY has a great level of expertise with many of these latex designs) @mattress4life thanks for adding your experience, always appreciated and helpful to hear from other consumers.

As an aside, I noticed that you only reference Dunlop, which is the latex process that is most widely produced, but it is good to know that the Talalay latex provides many of the same benefits, if not better benefits in some cases depending on preferences.

There are not many mattress companies using the type of latex zoning that Obason uses, is separating the layers and breaking up the density into 1/3’s. I can see why this would be more expensive. While I am not trying to talk you out of repurposing your Obassan… I would still try to find ways to sleep on other all latex mattresses made the traditional way, with 9, 10, or 12 inches of latex to see how it matches your personal needs and preferences. There are numerous latex experts listed in our mattress membership listing that have different layer configurations that may work out well for you.

DIY Natural bedding or any of our Mattress Expert members would be happy to share their many years of knowledge and experience. So let us know if you need any other info, or have any other questions.

Phoenix

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I just purchased a 4 layer latex (13"), soft, med. med firm, med firm (split) latex botanical bliss from plush beds in the medium set up, and my wife loves her side but I’m a heavier person and need more support since I push right through the top soft layer. They are suggesting the 2nd med layer, be pulled and get an extra firm layer and make that my 3rd layer…I am concerned that having a extra firm on top of the med firm wouldnt make much sense? Shouldn’t I have the denser layer on the bottom? I am mainly a back sleeper and sometimes on my side…

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Adding the extra firm in any position is a good idea. What iy does is bring more support. It sounds like your body is using your current set up as primarily comfort layers and is sinking through them too quickly. The extra firm would slow down your sinking and give your something to lean against. The medium then on the bottom would be fairly evenly compressed so that it would be supporting you more than if it were on top.

Even if you start with the extra firm on the bottom, with a zippered case, ypu can reareange your layers all you want. Bring the layers to the top that suit you best and bury the others. Remember to keep at least one softish layer on top of comfort followed by at least one firmer layer for support.