I have been doing a lot of research on buying a new mattress and have somewhat narrowed my search. I really prefer the feel of a traditional inner spring mattress and have heard good things about locally (Toronto) made Marshall mattress, but there is very little information available out there on them as far as reviews/analysis.
I got a brochure from "the Bayā which sells them locally and the model Iām looking at, the ārest assured tapestryā queen sized mattress has the following specs:
Support Layer:
-Honeycomb nested 15.5guage high tensile steel inner pocket springs
-edge around perimeter: parallel outer rows forming a fimer seating edge made from high tensile 14.5 gauge steel pocket springs supported by a flexible 6 gauge border wire
Iām very curious to see your thoughts on this construction and how it would hold up over time considering it can be flipped and rotated. It sells for about $2100Cdn (mattress only) when on sale.
For comparison sake, the big brand name closest equivalent for feel/comfort in the showroom I could find was a Simmons Beautyrest Platinum Firm which is advertived in the queen to have 1050 independently responding NON-FLIP Pocket Coil and an extra layer of 1000 MicroCoils below a layer of Diamondā¢ Infused AirCool; Memory Foam, This mattress when on sale is about $1000cdn (mattress only)
Is the Marshall worth double the cost? My budget was set around that, but if I really wont notice a huge difference, Iād rather save the $1K and live with the Simmons.
There is more about the 3 most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for).
[quote]I got a brochure from "the Bayā which sells them locally and the model Iām looking at, the ārest assured tapestryā queen sized mattress has the following specs:
Support Layer:
-Honeycomb nested 15.5guage high tensile steel inner pocket springs
-edge around perimeter: parallel outer rows forming a fimer seating edge made from high tensile 14.5 gauge steel pocket springs supported by a flexible 6 gauge border wire
Iām very curious to see your thoughts on this construction and how it would hold up over time considering it can be flipped and rotated. It sells for about $2100Cdn (mattress only) when on sale.[/quote]
Thanks for providing the density specs of the mattress.
All the materials and components are good quality materials except for this one ā¦
ā¦ which would give you 2.5" of convoluted polyfoam on each side of the mattress that is lower density than I would suggest in the durability guidelines here even for a two sided mattress (and the convoluted layers would also be less durable than a solid layer of the same material ā¦ see post #2 here) which means that they would be a weak link that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.
All the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you arenāt able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).
I would need to know the density of the foam layers in the mattress to make any specific comments but the Simmons Platinum mattresses use some very low quality/density polyfoam and memory foam layers that would be even less durable than the Marshall mattress and I would completely avoid this mattress as well.
Needless to say ā¦ I would look for other alternatives than either of the mattresses you mentioned because I donāt think that either of them are worth the price you would be paying.
Thanks for the solid advice and quick response Phoenix, itās much appreciated.
It seems like options for a good inner spring mattress are really limited.
I did go in an try a couple memory foam mattresses today and was actually surprised at how they performed. Last time I tried a Tempurpedic, I felt like it was in quicksand, but I think the recovery rate has really improved on them.
I liked both the Tempurpedic Contour Elite Breeze 2.0 and the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme Breeze 2.0. I also quite like the Sealy Optimum equivalent, but felt that it perhaps wasnt as cool (could have been placement in the store) Pricing wise, the salesperson was quick to discount the 3 from insanely high retail prices. The tempurs were discounted to $2300cdn for queen mattress only and the Sealy Optimum $1200CAD.
So from my research on this site, the best value option seems to be the Novosbed which is $1200.
Any idea how the Novosbed would compare to the Sealy Optimum? Is the any reason to even consider the Tempurpedics at double the price? (even considering they seem to retail for $3999USD online as a true price?)
Iām not sure where you live but if you let me know your city or postal code Iād be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities Iām aware of in your area.
There are a wide range of different memory foam formulations with different properties including differences in their recovery time but many of the memory foams in the current market do have a faster response time than they did years ago because of consumer complaints.
As you probably know Novosbed is a member of this site which means that I think highly of them and that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.
In terms of durability it would depend on which version of the Novosbed mattress you were considering (they use different combinations of memory foam) and which of the Sealy Optimum mattresses you were comparing it to (which also use different combinations of memory foam) but in general terms they use higher quality/density and more durable materials than any of the Sealy Optimum mattresses.
In terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP ā¦ when you canāt test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help ātalk you throughā the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and āfeelā of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best āmatchā for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the āaveragesā of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about āmatchingā their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
For the most part Tempurpedic uses good quality materials in their mattresses but there are certainly other options that would be better quality/value choices than Tempurpedic which tend to be significantly overpriced compared to other memory foam mattresses that use similar quality/density materials that may be just as suitable, just as durable, and better āvalueā choices (see post #2 here).
I canāt think of a specific reason or set of circumstances where I would personally consider a Tempurpedic and I would need a compelling and clearly identifiable reason that there was enough of a difference in āreal lifeā between a specific Tempurpedic mattress and another similar mattress I was considering that was in a much lower budget range to justify the higher cost.
Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your criteria and the quality/value guidelines here ā¦ the better options or possibilities Iām aware of in and around the Toronto, ON area are listed in post #1 here.
While I do recommend the members here āas a groupā because I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency ā¦ there are also many other sources of good quality/value mattresses as well that arenāt members of this site (at least yet).
I donāt make any specific recommendations and the forum lists only contain āpossibilitiesā that are subject to making sure that any of the retailers or manufacturers on the list are completely transparent and that any specific mattress you are considering meets the quality/durability guidelines I linked in my last reply along with all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you.
While I can help with āhowā to choose ā¦ Itās not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first āruleā of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best āmatchā for you in terms of ācomfortā, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will āfeelā to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or ātheory at a distanceā that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
While itās not possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the āoven to icebergā range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials ā¦ there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.
The only way to know for certain whether one would be better than the other in terms of temperature regulation would be to sleep on both of them and compare them based on your own personal experience but I would probably give a slight advantage to the Novosbed because of the airflow holes that are punched into the top memory foam layer.
I would also keep in mind that Tempurpedic also doesnāt have any certifications for their mattresses in terms of harmful substances and VOCās while Novosbed is CertiPUR certified (see post #2 here for more information about some of the more reliable āsafetyā certifications).
So I ended up going with the novosbed queen in firm. We have slept on it now for 3 nights and both my wife and I have found it overall comfortable to sleep on. The firm is nice and supportive on my 6ā3" 210lbs body, and not too hard when iām on my side. Heat is not at issue as I feared it might be.
A couple notes though:
Firstly, one thing that is a bit disappointing in this bed is the speed at which the memory foam recovers compared to the new Tempurpedic Contour Elite Breeze 2.0 and Cloud Supreme Breeze 2.0 we tested. I think the recovery is comparable to older tempurpedics, but the new ones are very fast for memory foam. This is noticeable when changing positions at night. when you move from your side to your back, you feel the old impressions for a bit on the novosbed compared to the tempur.
Secondly, I noticed with a fitted queen sheet the corners of the mattress come up a bit (maybe half an inch) and are not in contact with the bed frame (solid MDF platform bed). Not sure if this is because the sheet is too small or whether this makes a difference at all. It doesnāt feel like it does, but it was just a bit odd.
Third, I am using an old mattress protector which I believe is waterproof but breathable (has that plastic like lining underneath and soft on the top. I am starting to wonder if both the mattress protector and/or the fitted sheetās lack of stretch is taking away from the conforming capabilities of the mattress. when you lie down, your body makes an impression and pulls at the sheet/protector causing it to create a wider impression if that makes sense? Are the better protectors/fitted sheets that work with more with the mattress conforming capabilities?
Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback ā¦ I appreciate it
There is a very wide range of different types and formulations of memory foam that all have different properties (see post #9 here and post #8 here) and the response time of different types of memory foam can very widely although most of the newer formulations of memory foam and gel memory foam have faster recovery times than the memory foam formulations that were more common years ago. Different people will have different preferences about the type of memory foam and the specific memory foam properties that they tend to prefer.
It sounds like the pocket depth of your sheets is a little to small for your mattress. Sheets that are too tight can create a ādrum effectā which can make some difference in the feel of your mattress (see post #2 here).
A mattress protector can certainly have an effect on the feel and performance of your mattress and on the ability of the foam layers to contour to the shape of your body as well. Thicker mattress protectors can also affect how much or how quickly your body heat will reach the memory foam which can also affect the feel of the memory foam and the mattress as well. There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors and some examples of each of them in post #89 here and the posts it links to.
[quote=āKevinMā post=65139]So I ended up going with the novosbed queen in firm. We have slept on it now for 3 nights and both my wife and I have found it overall comfortable to sleep on. The firm is nice and supportive on my 6ā3" 210lbs body, and not too hard when iām on my side. Heat is not at issue as I feared it might be.
A couple notes though:
Firstly, one thing that is a bit disappointing in this bed is the speed at which the memory foam recovers compared to the new Tempurpedic Contour Elite Breeze 2.0 and Cloud Supreme Breeze 2.0 we tested. I think the recovery is comparable to older tempurpedics, but the new ones are very fast for memory foam. This is noticeable when changing positions at night. when you move from your side to your back, you feel the old impressions for a bit on the novosbed compared to the tempur.
Secondly, I noticed with a fitted queen sheet the corners of the mattress come up a bit (maybe half an inch) and are not in contact with the bed frame (solid MDF platform bed). Not sure if this is because the sheet is too small or whether this makes a difference at all. It doesnāt feel like it does, but it was just a bit odd.
Third, I am using an old mattress protector which I believe is waterproof but breathable (has that plastic like lining underneath and soft on the top. I am starting to wonder if both the mattress protector and/or the fitted sheetās lack of stretch is taking away from the conforming capabilities of the mattress. when you lie down, your body makes an impression and pulls at the sheet/protector causing it to create a wider impression if that makes sense? Are the better protectors/fitted sheets that work with more with the mattress conforming capabilities?[/quote]
On your second point, I can say that Iāve experienced the same āslow-to-get-back-to-shapeā in the novosbed which is one of the reasons i prefer the Tempurpedics.
Thanks, so if iām looking for a new fitted sheet, should i look for something with a very deep pocket and rather have the sheet be a bit loose to conform with the mattress, or is there some sort of sheet that stretches like the mattress cover to conform?
Also worth nothing another piece of feedback. I donāt have any prior experience with memory foam, so I think itās unfair to put this on Novosbed, but I suspect all memory foam mattresses are really bad for sitting up in bed to read a book or watch TV. as you concentrate too much body weight in one spot and get very little support compared to inner spring. I am so far willing to make this tradeoff for a mattress that seems excellent to sleep on, but worth nothing for potential buyers who enjoy reading or watching TV or working on a laptop in bed.
As long as the pocket depth is suitable for the thickness of your mattress you should be fine. I would avoid a sheet that is too tight and creates a drum effect but I would also avoid a sheet that would be so loose that the fabric will bunch up underneath you. Most sheets will tell you the thickness of the mattress they would be suitable for and most good retailers that sell sheets will be able to tell you as well.
The fabric in jersey cotton sheets are more stretchy (similar to a t-shirt) but for some people they can sleep warmer and not everyone likes them. There is some good information about sheets in post #7 here and the other posts and sources of information it links to that should be helpful if you are looking for sheetsā¦
A mattress isnāt designed to support the more concentrated weight of sitting ā¦ only the more evenly distributed weight of lying down. This is especially true of foam mattresses with softer and more āpoint elasticā materials such as latex or memory foam. If you spend a lot of time sitting or āpropped upā on your mattress then it may be an idea to consider an adjustable bed or a wedge which will help to support your weight and back more evenly along the length of your body when you are sitting up so you donāt sink in as much in one specific area. It would be less stressful for your back as well.
Another thing to look for would be sheets that use some sort of lycra/spandex-type material on at least two of the side panels of the fitted sheet. This will allow the fitted sheet to expand and fit snugly on different thicknesses. If it is fabric all of the way around (on all five sides) it may not be as flexible as youād like.
Hi Kevin,
I just wanted to reply to your post because i read through it and saw you mention two prices of $2000 and $1000 and wanted to let you know that you can very easily find a queen pillowtop double sided flip mattress for alot less. If you live in Toronto there is a retailer called Sleep Masters Canada in Mississauga right by the 401 and they have this double sided pillow top flip mattress for i believe something like $650-$700 for the queen mattress only. They sell Dreamstar mattresses who actually have great quality mattresses and the prices are pretty much the lowest ive seen especially for the quality of their mattresses. I bought a medium firm mattress from them recently and it is just perfect.
The price of a mattress is only one of many variables that can affect the āvalueā of a mattress purchase and the price may also have little to do with how well you sleep on a mattress (which is the most important part of value) but in most cities there are good quality/value mattresses that are available for less than $1000 (and for more than $2000 as well). In very general terms (and all else being equal), mattresses that contain higher quality or more specialized materials and components or mattresses that contain more padding will tend to cost more than mattresses that contain lower quality materials and components or that use polyfoam as the main padding material or that use less padding in the overall design.
Dreamstar is one of the smaller independent manufacturers in the Toronto area that make some good quality/value mattresses and a store that sells them and that is also transparent about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell would certainly be worth including in any Toronto research.
Since you have no prior history on the forum and have made several posts about the same mattress and the same store ā¦ I would also make sure you read the rules of the forum because you also need to disclose whether you have any direct or indirect relationship with either Sleep Masters Canada or with Dreamstar.
