My wife and I currently have a queen size Simmons Beautyrest Classic Trinity Park Plush Firm Euro Top that I believe may need to be replaced. The mattress is approximately 6 years old (I don’t remember when we actually bought it but it has a manufactured date of 07/12/10). The issue is that both my wife and I haven’t been sleeping well lately. She is being woken up numerous times during the night due to my tossing and turning. Sometimes I realize I’m doing it and other times I don’t. I do know that I am experiencing discomfort during the night… Most of this discomfort is in my arms and they feels sore and almost like they are falling asleep. I’m mainly a side/stomach sleeper and she is mainly a side/back sleeper. So I have a couple of questions:
I’ve heard that the lifespan of a mattress is 8 years…is the lifespan of a pillow top half that?
Are the symptoms I’m experiencing most likely due to the deterioration of the pillow top? I think the foam in the pillow top may be compressed and not provide proper support.
If the problem is due to the mattress is there any way to improve the problem without buying a new mattress?
If we do need a new mattress, what would be a good type/brand/model for our sleeping issues and habits? I’ve read about memory foam but am a bit apprehensive since we both tend to over-heat at night if it’s too warm. I would assume the extra room of a king size bed might help? Are there any decent options under $1,000?
I really appreciate any help/advice as this is a serious issue for us. Thanks!
While there is no way to specifically quantify how long any mattress will last for a specific person or predict exactly when they will decide to replace it because it is no longer suitable or comfortable for them (because this is the only real measure of durability or the useful life of a mattress that really matters) and because there are too many unknowns and variables involved that are unique to each person … if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn’t close to the edge of being too soft when it is new (see post #2 here) and you have confirmed that it meets the minimum quality/durability specs relative to your BMI range that are suggested in the durability guidelines here then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with higher quality and more durable materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam (in the comfort layers especially) it would likely be in the higher end of the range or even longer and the chances that you would have additional “bonus time” beyond that would be higher as well.
Having said that … the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).
There is more information about how to tell if it’s time to replace your mattress in post #3 here but based on your comments I would guess that your mattress is well past its “due date” and probably needs to be replaced. There are many people that have come to the forum after purchasing major brand mattresses that needed to be replaced after only 3 - 5 years so your experience certainly isn’t unusual.
Yes. The upper layers of a mattress are generally the weakest link of a mattress in terms of durability and are the layers where the quality/durability of the materials is particularly important. A mattress will tend to soften and break down from the top layers down because the regular deflection/compression of the upper foam materials and components when you sleep on the mattress is what softens or breaks down the materials over time and the softer upper layers of a mattress will deflect and compress more deeply and more often than the firmer deeper layers and components in a mattress.
While it’s certainly possible to “fix” a mattress if the only issue is that it’s too firm and the mattress is still in very good condition and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress … it’s generally much more difficult to fix a mattress that was too soft initially or that has developed soft spots or is sagging because the best solution would normally be to open up the mattress and remove the layers or components that are too soft or have developed soft spots or are sagging and replace them with new layers. A firmer topper will generally just “follow” any sagging or soft spots underneath it and at best it may be a partial or temporary solution and at worst it can make any issues that you are having with your mattress worse. For example if you add a firmer topper you could end up with a sleeping system where the top layer (the topper) was too firm for you to provide good pressure relief but the layers underneath your topper could either be too soft or sagging too much to provide suitable support to keep your spine in good alignment.
There are some suggestions in post #4 here that may be helpful for a mattress that is too soft or is sagging at least on a partial or temporary basis but I would keep your expectations low because the odds of success wouldn’t be very high … particularly over the longer term.
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
I’m not sure what you’ve read since you found the site but just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines I linked earlier in this reply relative to your weight/BMI range … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article).
It’s also not really possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials but there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.
In very general terms … the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses will tend to be more “insulating” and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer mattresses.
If you are looking for local options that you can test in person before a purchase then if you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area…
If you are also considering online options then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses that use different materials and components in a wide range of designs, budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may be well worth considering as well.
In its simplest form choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …
Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.
Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.
Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
You should certainly be able to find a mattress that would be a suitable, durable, and good value choice in your budget range and I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding … and of course to any other comments or specific questions you may have along the way that I can help with.
Thanks Phoenix. I’m reading over your responses and links now. Two other questions:
What are my best options of places to shop for a new mattress? I live in the western suburbs of Chicago, IL (60560)…
Does the pain I described earlier (pain in shoulders and arms in middle of night similar to “pins and needles”) indicate that our mattress is breaking down to the point that it has become too soft for me?
Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your criteria and the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Chicago, IL area are listed in posts #2 and #4 here.
I would certainly suggest including My Green Mattress/Quality Sleep in your research if you are in the area.
While it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because they can be very complex and there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here (at least to the degree that any symptoms are the result of a mattress and not the result of any pre existing issues or circumstances).
While I can’t know for certain … it’s possible that your discomfort could be the result of a pillow issue because one of the most common causes for neck and shoulder issues is the pillow you are using. A suitable pillow is an essential part of good alignment for the head and neck and upper body and can reduce some of the pressure on your shoulders (which can lead to tingling in your shoulders and arms) because the gap between the head and the mattress and the curve of the cervical spine needs to be supported just like all other parts of the spine. Like mattresses … there are certain “needs” that depend on body type and sleeping positions but with pillows, personal preferences play a more important role because the face is much more sensitive to textures, temperature, smells, and other more subjective “feel” based properties of a pillow. There is more about choosing pillows in the main pillow topic here.
The other possibility that is more likely is that the upper layers of your mattress have softened under the shoulders and are no longer isolating you enough from the firmer layers underneath them. It’s also possible that foam softening under your shoulders has led to some type of compensation or “adjustment” in your sleeping position that has resulted in sleeping with your shoulders out of their neutral alignment which can also restrict blood flow and cause “tingling” in your shoulders and arms.
Thanks Phoenix. Right now I’m leaning toward the Brooklyn Bedding mattress. Is there any stores where my wife and I can try a similar latex mattress (I don’t believe Brooklyn mattresses are sold in stores) to see if we like the feel? Can you explain the options for foundations for these? I see some are placed on slatted frames and others placed on box springs…is one base better than another? I would thing placing it in a slatted frame would cause it to sit too low.
There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).
Each mattress category (see here) can include hundreds of different mattresses with a very wide range of different designs, different “feels”, different characteristics, and different firmness levels and will generally include some mattresses that have a design that will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP and others that use the same type of materials and components and are in the same category and may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be uncomfortable or unsuitable for you to sleep on … even if it uses the same general type of materials and components.
I don’t know of another mattress that uses the same materials and components and that has the same design as the Brooklyn Bedding BestMattressEver so the only way to know how another mattresses that has a different design would compare for you (different people can have different opinions about how two mattresses compare) would be based on your own personal experience with both of them.
The BME would certainly make a great quality/value choice but I would include My Green Mattress/Quality Sleep in your research because they have a range of latex mattresses that you can test in person that would also make great quality/value choices as well.
I’m not sure you are clear between the difference between a box spring and a foundation. A box spring has springs inside it that flex under the mattress and there are very few one sided mattresses today that use them as a support system and in many cases they will invalidate a mattress warranty. Most mattresses in the industry today need a steel or wooden bedframe with a foundation that has minimal to no flex (vs a box spring that flexes) or a platform bed which also has little to no flex under the mattress. There are many in the industry that mix up the terminology between box springs and foundations even though they are very different products.
Any foam mattress with a polyfoam support core will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components (either a bedframe and foundation or a platform bed) need to be strong and durable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without some of the parts bending, sagging, shifting, or breaking with extended use. The support surface under the mattress (which may be a solid surface, slats or a steel or wire grid) should have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. If a foundation has a slatted surface then I would suggest that the gaps between any slats are no more than about 5" (with 1 x 3 slats) although I would strongly suggest 4" or less which would be better yet.
There is more information about the different types of support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses and some examples of each of them in post #1 here. I would also keep in mind that these are general guidelines and some manufacturers have requirements that may be different so I would always confirm with the retailer or manufacturer of your mattress that any support system you are planning to use under the specific mattress you purchase meets their warranty requirements and guidelines.
Turns out a new mattress isn’t in the budget right now so I’m looking to improve our existing one. I was thinking of maybe a latex topper? Probably have $200 to spend tops. I tried adding a sleeping bag under the mattress pad and sheets last night for extra padding and I did sleep better/wasn’t as restless.
If the only issue with a mattress is that it is too firm and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress and it’s still in good condition then a good quality topper can be an effective way to add some additional softness, “comfort” and pressure relief to your sleeping system but the only way to know for certain whether a specific mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) is based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the combination. If you can’t test the mattress/topper combination in person then there will always be always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice for any specific person on any specific mattress.
There is more information about choosing a topper that also includes a link to the better online sources I’m aware of in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.
Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing a topper where you can’t test the combination in person … a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return the topper and any costs involved just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.
On the other hand … it’s generally much more difficult to “fix” a mattress that was too soft initially or that has developed soft spots or is sagging (which is very likely with a major brand mattress after 6 years) because the best solution would normally be to open up the mattress and remove the layers or components that are too soft or have developed soft spots or are sagging and replace them with new layers. A topper will generally just “follow” any sagging or soft spots underneath it and at best it may be a partial or temporary solution and at worst it can make any issues that you are having with your mattress worse. For example if you add a firmer topper you could end up with a sleeping system where the top layer (the topper) was too firm for you to provide good pressure relief but the layers underneath your topper could either be too soft or sagging too much to provide suitable support to keep your spine in good alignment.
If you have limited alternatives because of budget considerations then there are also some suggestions in post #4 here that may be helpful for a mattress that is too soft or has developed soft spots or is sagging at least on a partial or temporary basis.
I would also make sure that the support system under the mattress is also in very good condition and has a firm, flat, and non yielding surface because if your support system is sagging and no longer provides suitable support for the mattress then this will also cause the mattress on top of it to sag as well.
Thanks Phoenix. Can you explain the pros/cons between just using a mattress topper vs “mattress surgery”. It seems to me that both are accomplishing the same thing but I’m curious intrigued by the “surgery” option.
Mattress surgery would be used to remove and replace any materials or components in your mattress that have developed soft spots or are sagging. It would be useful as an alternative to throwing away the mattress because you could reuse some of the layers and components in the mattress such as the springs if they are still in good condition (which is often the case) and just replace the layers that are breaking down or sagging. You can change the firmness or feel of the mattress by adding softer or firmer layers and using different types of materials to replace the defective layers depending on the overall design and feel you want to end up with. There is more detailed information about mattress surgery in post #2 here and the other posts and sources of information that it links to.
A topper is only an effective solution if your mattress is still in good condition and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress and you just want to add some additional softness and pressure relief to your sleeping system. Using a topper on top of a mattress that is starting to sag or has soft spots under the heavier parts of the body such as the hips/pelvis (which yours probably does) isn’t particularly effective because the layers under the topper that are sagging or have soft spots can still compromise the support of the mattress.
In other words … a topper can only “fix” a mattress that is too firm but is otherwise in good condition while mattress surgery can “fix” a mattress that has defective layers and has lost it’s comfort and/or support (as long as the deeper support layers or components are still in good condition) although it can take some trial and error to find the combination of replacement materials that will be a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP.
They don’t include the density of either topper in the description so I can’t make any meaningful comments about the quality or durability of either one of them and I would make sure you find out the density of any topper before you purchase it so you can make sure it meets the durability guidelines and so you can make more meaningful comparisons before a purchase.
As you probably know I think highly of Dreamfoam and I would consider them to be a reliable supplier.
You can see some comments about Allsleep in post #12 here and I would be cautious in dealing with them because they have some history of misrepresenting or providing misleading information about their products.
It’s certainly inexpensive but the density is also lower than I would normally suggest in the durability guidelines so if you do purchase it I would keep your expectations about the durability or useful life of the topper low and consider it as a relatively short term purchase.
I received it last night. The first thing I noticed about it is that it had a bunch of small holes (mostly on one side). Some were as large as a marble I would estimate…is this normal?
The first night sleeping on it was less than great. I woke up around midnight (after going to bed around 10:30) and moved to the couch. I had been sleeping better than this for the last week or two after placing a sleeping bag flat under our mattress pad. To me the topper made my shoulder soreness worse than the sleeping bag pad (similar to the initial problem). It almost seemed “sticky” for lack of a better word. And I also noticed more heat when I tried lying on my back.
So now I need to decide should I return it? Give it another night?
I would need to see a picture to know for sure because some memory foam layers have holes punched through them to add to the breathability of the memory foam but if they are more like “pits” on one side of the topper then it doesn’t sound normal to me.
I would tend to give any new topper a week or two before deciding whether to keep or return it so that it can break in a little and your body can get used to the feel of a sleeping system that is different from what you are used to. It can take longer than just a few days for your body to adjust to any change and your experience over the course of just a few days may be an anomaly or the result of the change itself and may not identify any meaningful patterns in your experience.
Below is a picture of a couple of the holes. There is no pattern (just randomly here and there) and there are a quite a few on the one side and just a couple on the other. They are approximately the size of a dime but their sizes vary.
I am still having issues sleeping so I may end up returning the topper and saving up for a king size mattress.
While I don’t know what caused them and they probably wouldn’t have a significant effect on the feel and performance of the topper … they certainly don’t look normal to me and it wouldn’t be something I would expect to see with a new topper,
