Mattress Buying in Phoenix: Reviews and Questions

[toddking2]

Today I was in Phoenix on business and, being in the market for a new mattress, had the opportunity to visit two of this site’s members, Brooklyn Bedding (henceforth Brooklyn) and Arizona Premium Mattress Company (henceforth APMC).

First I visited Brooklyn and was assisted by Mario. The models I requested to try out were the Aloe Alexis, Aloe Adelle, and Cool Luxe. The Alexis did not appear to be available, or we did not get around to trying it, though I did also try the Cool Supreme. Mario seemed like a nice guy, personable, young, and not overly pushy. He was definitely steering me toward the Cool Luxe and politely and patiently answered my questions, though he added a considerable amount of sales pitch into the mix. I did not really get the feeling that he was trying to help me with my individual preferences and concerns, as much as he was trying to make a sale and provide me with canned info about the mattresses. Still my assessment of him was somewhere between unobjectionable and positive.

Now to the mattresses. The Aloe Adelle was surprisingly unremarkable. I’ve laid on lots of memory foam mattresses and have slept for the last month with a high grade memory foam topper. The Adelle felt hard and did not have that memory foam quality of conforming to my body. It seemed like it would provide good support, but had little of that “wow” factor, in the comfort layer, that I would associate with memory foam. It did not seem worth it for the $1299 price.

The Cool Luxe was cushy and seemed to provide ok support. I have laid on the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe many times, and this did not seem like a good copy. There is a “coherence” to the feel of the Cloud Luxe, where it seems both incredibly soft and also supportive, that was lacking here. This seemed more “mushy” than anything else. Mario showed me the layers of the Cloud Luxe and seemed to be especially emphatic about the supposed revolutionary qualities (in terms of heat distribution, support, etc.) of the 1.5" top layer of “5lb Purecool Memory Foam.” I felt somewhat skeptically about claims that this layer was so much different from regular memory foam. I noted that the Cool Luxe did not consist of separable layers, but was encased in an internal mesh bag (within the cover). Its layers seemed fused together, and this made me wonder if Brooklyn simply purchased a premade mattress from another manufacturer and was marketing it as the Cool Luxe. Overall the Cool Luxe was pretty nice but not $1899 (the price for queen) nice.

I also briefly tried the Cool Surpreme, but found it a little lacking in terms of softness/comfort.

My overall impression of Brooklyn is that they are a new company that has yet to perfect their product line or marketing and sales strategies. I much prefer highly individualized attention to customer concerns and a salesperson who does not try to push a particular product. The Adelle seemed mediocre and the Cool Luxe seemed like a work in progress.

Next I went to APMC. I met the owner, Ken Hightower, who had me try the Ultra Plush Adjustable Sleep System with medium and soft latex foundation layers. I was instantly impressed with the product. Both were extremely comfortable and great at distributing my weight evenly and alleviating pressure points. I was thinking I would like to get the 3" latex topper that costs an extra $100, as opposed to the 2" that comes standard. Ken actually steered me away from this extra expense, by having me try a number of beds with the 3" topper, which I found felt less supportive than those with the 2" topper. I believe that with the 3" topper, I was less able to feel the base layer and the support it was providing. Ken was patient and affable, and seemed prone to telling stories and not pushy about making a sale. The product seemed to be very high quality, basic, comfortable, and solid. I ended up buying the Ultra Plush Adjustable Mattress, half soft, half medium. Both were so comfortable that I am looking forward to alternating nights between them when I get my new bed.

So this brings me to a few critical questions. I liked the feel of the APMC mattress with the foundation in the store. Ken told me about the foundation he offers for shipment, which is a solid wood frame and costs $250. He also mentioned that a box spring would make the mattress feel much softer, which is not my aim. I am wondering if I might be able to do better locally, in terms of a foundation, than having Ken’s wood foundation shipped from Arizona. Would the Ikea Sultan Laxeby, which costs $150, provide as good of a foundation as that sold by Ken? What other alternatives might be available locally to me, via major retailers, or on Amazon perhaps?

Second, I mentioned this to Ken, but I want a second opinion. I am an average sized guy (~175lbs), but I share my bed about once per week with my girlfriend, who is a retired athlete and a lot bigger (taller and heavier) than me. I don’t know her exact weight (and am not going to ask), but we are probably talking a difference of 50-100 lbs between her and me. I figured she could sleep on the medium side of the mattress when she visits, and I could use the soft side. She is not fussy about mattresses and is a sound sleeper (even on the floor), but is this going to provide her with enough support? Is her weight going to be excessive for the mattress and possibly shorten its longevity? Should I consider changing the order to go half firm?

I realize that my review of APMC was a bit abbreviated relative to that of Brooklyn. I got a little tired of writing by the time I got to APMC. More details available upon request.

Many thanks,
Todd

[phoenix]

Hi toddking,

Thanks for the detailed feedback on both Brooklyn Bedding and Arizona Premium.

I wanted to make a few comments though just to clarify or correct some of the information or implications in your post for the benefit of others who may read them …

Now to the mattresses. The Aloe Adelle was surprisingly unremarkable. I’ve laid on lots of memory foam mattresses and have slept for the last month with a high grade memory foam topper. The Adelle felt hard and did not have that memory foam quality of conforming to my body. It seemed like it would provide good support, but had little of that “wow” factor, in the comfort layer, that I would associate with memory foam. It did not seem worth it for the $1299 price.

The Aloe Adelle isn’t a typical “memory foam mattress” and is not designed to feel like a typical memory foam mattress. This is the reason for its design. It’s a memory foam latex hybrid with a polyfoam/wool quilting layer on top and is more of a hybrid between fast and slow response materials. The latex in the mattress is a more costly material than the memory foam (latex is generally the most costly foam material) and while I can certainly understand that you didn’t like the particular “feel” of the mattress because feel is so subjective and varies so much between individuals … from a materials point of view there is no doubt that the mattress is “worth it”. One of the most common mistakes that many consumers make is equating the “feel” of a mattress with it’s quality or the “value” of the materials which are completely unrelated. Cheap materials can feel great and some of the most costly materials can feel horrible depending on how well a specific mattress matches each individual’s needs and preferences. With all types of mattresses and materials what one person loves the next may not like at all. This is all subjective and relative to each person.

The Cool Luxe was cushy and seemed to provide ok support. I have laid on the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe many times, and this did not seem like a good copy. There is a “coherence” to the feel of the Cloud Luxe, where it seems both incredibly soft and also supportive, that was lacking here. This seemed more “mushy” than anything else. Mario showed me the layers of the Cloud Luxe and seemed to be especially emphatic about the supposed revolutionary qualities (in terms of heat distribution, support, etc.) of the 1.5" top layer of “5lb Purecool Memory Foam.” I felt somewhat skeptically about claims that this layer was so much different from regular memory foam.

The Cool Luxe is not a “copy” of the Tempurpedic but an “equivalent” in terms of softness. His claims are actually correct and what you were told about the memory foam material is factual (except I’m not sure I would use “revolutionary” but more “evolutionary”) in the sense that it is more technologically “advanced” (and also more costly) than previous generations of memory foam. Some of the memory foam they use in the “Cool” series is among the most advanced memory foams available. Once again though “feel” is very subjective and while most people would say that the Cloud Luxe has a similar level of “comfort” or softness as the Cloud Luxe … the surface “feel” is different because it’s a type of memory foam that has some different properties than the memory foam used in the Tempurpedic Cloud series. In terms of support … the firmness of the support layers are the same or very similar to Tempurpedic so there would be little to no difference here but of course each person will feel different levels of support based on how they interact with a specific mattress and on how they define “support”.

I noted that the Cool Luxe did not consist of separable layers, but was encased in an internal mesh bag (within the cover). Its layers seemed fused together, and this made me wonder if Brooklyn simply purchased a premade mattress from another manufacturer and was marketing it as the Cool Luxe. Overall the Cool Luxe was pretty nice but not $1899 (the price for queen) nice.

Your speculation is certainly not correct and Brooklyn Bedding is a mattress factory that makes all their own mattresses and owns some equipment that is amazingly expensive. That’s like saying that if other manufacturers that make “finished mattresses” or that glue their layers together and don’t have a zip cover (which would cover most of the mattresses in the industry) they must somehow be buying their mattresses from someone else. Not every mattress has a zip cover and some do better without one. If they bought their mattresses from someone else it’s very unlikely they would be able to offer the kind of value that their mattresses represent. Once again here as well you are equating the “feel” of a mattress with it’s quality or value but this is a mistake that many consumers make and correcting these types of assumptions is part of the reason behind this website.

My overall impression of Brooklyn is that they are a new company that has yet to perfect their product line or marketing and sales strategies. I much prefer highly individualized attention to customer concerns and a salesperson who does not try to push a particular product. The Adelle seemed mediocre and the Cool Luxe seemed like a work in progress.

Again your impressions are completely incorrect and they have been in business making mattresses for over 15 years. It is true that Mario is fairly new so perhaps you were mistaking this for the age or experience behind the company but they are certainly not “perfecting” their mattresses any more than any mattress manufacturer is always working on improving their designs as new technology or materials become available. Brooklyn Bedding does some remarkable research into the materials they use in their mattresses and they are anything but a “new and inexperienced” company. One of the owner John’s “hobbies” for example is sometimes spending a weekend with friends in the industry tearing apart mattresses made by other manufacturers to see the reasons why they feel and perform the way they do and using this type of information and the insights they provide in their own designs. Like many of the manufacturers here you would probably be amazed at the research that goes into the development of various designs.

On to your comments about Arizona Premium …

Here your comments are certainly more accurate and I can really only say that I have tremendous respect for the quality and value of the mattresses they make and I have spent many hours on the phone with Ken who is one of the most knowledgeable people I know in the industry. While I think your comments about Brooklyn Bedding were off track and implied many things that weren’t accurate or mistook your own perceptions for the value of their mattresses (which is the reason for this lengthy response) … I couldn’t agree more with your assessment of Arizona Premium who also have some of the best quality and value in the industry and spending time with Ken can be a true learning experience.

I am wondering if I might be able to do better locally, in terms of a foundation, than having Ken’s wood foundation shipped from Arizona. Would the Ikea Sultan Laxeby, which costs $150, provide as good of a foundation as that sold by Ken? What other alternatives might be available locally to me, via major retailers, or on Amazon perhaps?

The Ikea Laxeby is a flexible slat foundation and would have a different feel and response compared to a solid slat foundation. Whether this was a benefit or not would depend on the mattress on it but these have the most benefit under a thinner mattress that needs some extra “give” under the mattress. I woud generally suggest using the same type of foundation as the one you tested the mattress on. The Laxeby also needs a base to place it on (usually it’s used on an Ikea bed) because it’s not designed to be a stand alone product. It don’t think you would find a more suitable or better quality/value foundation available locally with slats that were less than 3" apart unless you were to find something like the Therapedic Heavy Duty foundation here or something similar at a good price at a local store. Most foundations have slats that are further apart and wouldn’t be the best choice for an all latex mattress. There are also some other foundation options in the foundation thread here but most of the KD type foundations on amazon have gaps that are more than 3" apart and I wouldn’t use them with an all latex mattress.

Second, I mentioned this to Ken, but I want a second opinion. I am an average sized guy (~175lbs), but I share my bed about once per week with my girlfriend, who is a retired athlete and a lot bigger (taller and heavier) than me. I don’t know her exact weight (and am not going to ask), but we are probably talking a difference of 50-100 lbs between her and me. I figured she could sleep on the medium side of the mattress when she visits, and I could use the soft side. She is not fussy about mattresses and is a sound sleeper (even on the floor), but is this going to provide her with enough support? Is her weight going to be excessive for the mattress and possibly shorten its longevity? Should I consider changing the order to go half firm?

There is really no way to predict how evenly a mattress will support her and keep her spine in alignment with any certainty because there are too many variables and unknowns involved (see post #2 here for more about this) but for occasional use it would probably be fine. If it was a more permanent mattress for regular use then I would probably consider a firmer support core to provide better support for her higher weight but the design of the mattress that was ideal for her would also depend on her sleeping positions and preferences and her own testing or experience (or a much more detailed conversation that could provide more detailed information about her) would be a much better reference point for the most suitable choice. Having a mattress that was soft on one side and firm on the other would also result in a bigger transition and difference between each side for when you used the middle area of the mattress.

In terms of durability … softer foams are less durable than firmer foams in any material and all foams will soften and break down faster under the stress of heavier weights than under lighter weights but latex is among the most durable of all materials so this wouldn’t be a particular concern to me … especially with occasional use.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences and feedback and although some of your comments needed to be “corrected” so that others who read this have more accurate information … I do appreciate you taking the time to share them.

Most importantly … congratulations on your new mattress … I think you made a great choice

Phoenix

[toddking2]

Hi Phoenix and thanks for the feedback. My comments about BB were just speculation and subjective impressions, not based on hard fact and thus prone to factual inaccuracy. I tried to make that clear in my comments, and I thank you for correcting them where they were not in accordance with the facts.

[toddking2]

Hi again.

I am now starting to think about whether I made a mistake by ordering half soft and half medium in my order of the latex mattress from Arizona Premium Mattress Company. Because I placed the order at the end of the day on Friday, it is not too late to make a change. I ordered the mattress in this way because I felt very comfortable on both the soft and medium sample mattresses. They both had characteristics that I found to be comfortable and desirable, but different. Now I am wondering if the soft is going to break down too quickly and not, over the course of a full night, provide adequate support. I am ~5’7" and 170 or 175 lbs. Perhaps I should change to two medium cores. Not sure how to make this decision without sleeping a full night on the bed. Any advice from Phoenix or past purchasers from Arizona Premium Mattress?

Many thanks,
Todd

[phoenix]

Hi toddking2,

I ordered the mattress in this way because I felt very comfortable on both the soft and medium sample mattresses. They both had characteristics that I found to be comfortable and desirable, but different. Now I am wondering if the soft is going to break down too quickly and not, over the course of a full night, provide adequate support.

Your own testing is a much more reliable indicator of how evenly you sink into the mattress and spinal alignment than any theory but I can tell you that if I had a choice between a slightly softer and a slightly firmer core that seemed to be roughly equal that I would tend towards slightly firmer because it’s usually less risky in terms of alignment.

With latex … durability wouldn’t be an issue for me with either the 28 ILD or the 32 ILD core and wouldn’t be a factor in my decision.

One of the advantages of your mattress is that you can exchange the core for a softer or firmer version so if for some reason your longer term experience doesn’t match your testing experience you can change the firmness of the core after a purchase although of course it’s always preferable to make the ideal choice in the first place.

Phoenix