Mattress comfort layers - latex

I didn’t see how to start a new thread, so hopefully this will be ok…We just bought two pieces of foam and started a DIY King bed. For the core we chose a 6 " of HQ Lux ILD 50 & over this is 3 " of Dunlop Latex 29ILD 4.6#. We have slept on it two nights. It’s really firm but already my back feels better. I have a couple of convoluted foam toppers…one 2 inches that feels like a decent piece of foam and another one 1 inch that feels cheaper. I have no specs on these cause they came out of a mattress that we tore apart just to see what was in it! Cleaning, I casually threw the 2 inch topper across the new bed. A bit later I took a lie down…boy! that was exactly what my combination mattress needed…an inch or so of soft! I had been thinking of getting another piece of inner foam, thinking that maybe HQ36 on top of the #50 would soften things a bit,but perhaps I should get an inch or two of a latex topper? How soft should I go. I only want a bit to soften the hips and shoulders . Hubby is heavy and does not like a plush bed and frankly the firm ones really agree with me better, but I sure like this little bit of soft. I am leaving it there on the top for the time being.

HI lkm.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:
I moved your post to a more appropriate topic

I am glad that your DIY experiment is turning out so well, and that you need just a bit of fine tuning to get it just right. Unfortunately it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress inpost #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well.

For those who decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and “match” every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here ).

The thickness of a mattress is only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress but in higher weight ranges (or a higher BMI) the odds are higher that you may do better with a mattress that is thicker than lower weight ranges or a lower BMI (see post #14 here for more about the effect of thickness) but even this depends more on the specific design and combination of materials in the mattress and on how well your testing or personal experience indicates the mattress “as a whole” matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP than it does on just the thickness itself.

It will also depend on your body type and sleeping positions as well because side sleepers may need more softness and contouring than back or side sleepers.

Phoenix

We slept on the additional 2 inch waffle foam. Hubby said he slept good though he was a bit stiff. I “slept” and again my back did not have that awful ache that had moved in with me on our old mattress. (it was represented as a partial “latex mattresses” and i will shine your shoes if there was a lick of latex in it!) Anyway, I have had total Hip replacement on both sides and while I have no “pain”? I do have a tenderness on each of those hips when sleeping on them and I awake and need to turn over before morning. The newest aches in less time than the older one, so I may improve more with time. I am afraid of going too soft and the back will hurt again, so judging how the plain foam helped a bit, I am inclined to go with a couple inches of actual Latex foam in a topper. I surmise I will be still getting some softness and the “feel” of latex pleases me :slight_smile: First I am gonna keep sleeping on this combination and see how and if we adjust. Thanks so much for your reply and I understand you can’t tell another person what they are going to “feel”…I have done a couple of tons of reading on this site and some others and feel like I have learned a LOT about mattresses. Will ck in on how things continue for us

Hi lkm.

Great to hear that the hip replacement was successful and that your pains vanished :slight_smile: (I would guess that some tenderness in the hips is probably normal).

Your concern is justified and you are on the right track in not wanting to go too soft as in your case good alignment is much more of a priority then pressure relief. Having hip sensitivity would cause you to reposition more often and while most people don’t recall each time they reposition themselves, 20 to 40 times a night would be common. If you go too soft with the top layer you would sink in deeper within the new mattress which would cause to remain in the same position longer which again can result in more tenderness than for someone that is repositioning in a normal range throughout the night.

Adding just a bit of extra plushness seems a step in the right direction and it is good that you like the feel of latex as this would be a more supportive material whilst still contouring around your body and offering the comfort you need. It is great that you have the foresight to give your body time to adjust to the new sleeping environment and that you are watching for how the new changes are playing out over a longer period instead of rushing into fixing the comfort issue. This way you are cooperating with your body and watching for the right clues as to how to fine tune the new arrangement. If you make changes that are too large (such as adding a topper that is thicker than you need) then you could go from one extreme to another (from too firm to too soft for example) and “jump over” the ideal combination.

I look forward to learning about your progress.

Phoenix

After researching on your site and many others, I purchased an Urban Green Mattress and Cover, and waterproof mattress pad a year ago from Foam Sweet Foam. I’m a cold-natured woman of 110 lbs. Most all sources say latex does not sleep hot, but my 100% latex mattress feels like it retains heat. It isn’t hot when I go to bed, but quickly heats up and I’m continually turning over about every 20 minutes trying to cool off.
A few months ago I purchased a 100% bamboo mattress topper, hoping it would put enough space between my body and the mattress to help keep me cool. It helps some, but not enough. My sheets are 100% Egyptian Cotton 300 thread count Percale. My latex mattress is resting on plywood which is set on a bed frame. Making the room cooler just makes the top side of my body cold, while the mattress side of my body is still hot. Other than the temperature issue, I love the comfort of the latex mattress. I’m losing a lot of sleep and feeling desperate. Do you have any other suggestions on how to keep cool?

Hi Jacqulyn.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Good to hear that although you have some temperature issues, the Urban Green Mattress meets your comfort and support needs. It is very likely that with a bit of detective work you’ll be able to track down the contributing factors and adjust your sleeping microclimate.

All foams are insulators (rather than heat conductors) so to some degree they will all be warmer than mattresses that contain no foam at all (such as mattresses that only have an innerspring and layers of natural fibers on top) but these tend to be premium or super premium mattresses and for the most part almost all mattresses have some type of foam in the comfort layers.

It is important to recognize that no two people are alike, and even with naturally derived materials such as latex that is known to be the most breathable and “temperature neutral” relative to all the different types of foam materials, how it feels to a particular individual is very personal and usually is the result of many interconnected variables including room temperature, humidity, sheets, bedding, and bedclothes, mattress protector or any mattress pads or toppers being used, and of course where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range. The firmness of the mattress and how much you sink into the mattress is also an important factor that can affect the sleeping temperature in addition to the fact that some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with.

There is more about tracking down a potential cause or causes for temperature regulation issues (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) in post #2 here.and the posts it links to that may be helpful, but generally speaking the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin.

A mattress breaths from all sides to different degrees and placing your mattress upon plywood would prevent the mattress ventilating from underneath which may be a large contributor to the heat buildup you are experiencing. You may wish to consider something like a coir bed rug under the mattress. or placing your mattress on firm breathable slated base that allows for sufficient air flow.

The waterproof mattress pad/protector you are using may have a significant effect on the temperature regulation because it can add to the insulating effect or to the moisture wicking effect of your mattress. You can see more about the effect of different mattress protectors in post #89 here.

The best way to track down where temperature issues are coming from would be to look at all the layers between your skin and the floor to see if any of them could be contributing to the temperature issue. Layers or materials that are closer to you and are more breathable and allow for more moisture wicking will help with temperature regulation issues while layers that allow for less airflow or moisture wicking that are closer to you can make them worse.

Your sheets are cotton so this shouldn’t be an issue and a 300 thread count would not be high enough to trap the heat. Linen sheets are probably the coolest sleeping type of fabric but they can also be costly. There is more about how different types of mattress protectors can affect sleeping temperature in post #89 here . Finally the next layers down would normally be the mattress itself which includes the cover and the top layers of foam.

Your blankets and bedding and the temperature or humidity of the room can also make a difference if there are no layers underneath you that can be changed that are part of the underlying cause of the temperature issue.

Wool is among the best temperature regulating material but I would also keep in mind that it regulates temperature in both directions (it’s used in the desert and also in cold climates because of this) so while it may not feel “cool” … it generally doesn’t feel “hot” either and it also helps to regulate moisture (which can trap heat) and reduce the perception of temperature that comes from higher humidity levels (similar to how temperatures feel cooler on less humid days than they do on more humid days).

In many cases changing the mattress protector, sheets, or bedding to cooler versions can make “enough” of a difference for many people who would otherwise sleep hot on a mattress. It would also be worth mentioning that your face and head is also a major part of how your body regulates temperature and a cooler pillow can sometimes make a surprising difference in how warm you sleep as well. Temperature issues are usually a combination of factors and can be a bit complex, but with a bit of experimenting and adjusting your sleeping microclimate, you’ll be able to get the cool and quality sleep and rest you are looking for.

I’ll be interested to learn about how you progress through your evaluation and any changes that you are able to make.

Phoenix

[color=black]I’ve been looking at assembling a mattress using components from Mattresses.net, I actually emailed them and got a less than ideal response, only one question was answered in the response, a grand total of two lines. Hoping for a more informative answer.

" I’ve been considering a DIY mattress build and I have a few questions about the construction. I am 5’ 11" and 155 lbs, my girlfriend is about 5’ 7" and 140 lbs. We both prefer a very plush bed and are not worried about the “feel” being too soft; however, we are a bit worried about it not providing proper support and alignment if it is layered too soft.

The current build would be a 15" King mattress layered as follows:

  1. 3" Talalay Copper Infused Topper - 15 ILD
    2.[ul][li] 3" Plush Rejuvenite Talalay Topper - 19 ILD
    [li]OR
    [li]3" Talalay Copper Infused Topper - 21 ILD[/li]
    [/li][/ul]
  2. 3" Puralux Slow Recovery Topper - 24 ILD
  3. 6" Zoned Dunlop Core - 31/35 ILD
  4. 15" Bamboo Wool Cover
  5. Copper Infused Mattress Protector

I have read that a difference of more than ~5 ILD in comfort layers can lead to feeling like you are “bottoming out”, which is exaggerated in the lower ILD offerings. The Rejuvenite or second Copper Infused topper would serve as an intermediate layer to counteract that feeling. [b]Would there be any benefit to adding a second Copper Infused topper instead of the Rejuvenite, or vice versa?

The more important questions is would 9" of comfort layers at 15/19-21/24 ILD be inadequate for providing the necessary spinal alignment?[/b]

The second question is about the core. I like the theory behind the zoned core, but with 9" of comfort layers on top, would there be any appreciable difference in feeling or alignment/support between the different zones? As far as felt differences go, would one even feel a difference between Dunlop or Talalay at that point?

I would appreciate any advice you could give, thank you! "

The response I received was to omit the Puralux, and use the 15 ILD copper and the 19 ILD Rejuvenite and the rest of the build looked good. I assume this meant to completely omit the third comfort layer and do Copper-15|Rejuvenite-19|Core, for a total 6" of comfort layers, though it was not very clear. Nothing else was answered, so I am hoping for some more in depth answers. I would like to go with 15" just for future flexibility and fine tuning.

Thanks in advance![/color]

Hi Yodwinder.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Designing and building your own mattress can be a lot of fun but can also be quite frustrating and involves a lot more knowledge of how different materials, layers, and components interact than many people suspect and I woulddo some more DIY research by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process.

This is a good question … your “design of 15” of latex would be much more than needed at your BMI and weight for your comfort/support needs and in this case excessive thickness in combination with the plushness of the top 3 Talalay layers may be totally counterproductive. . I am not sure what the reason is for going with a 15" thick mattress , but the comfort layers in your DIY come to a total of 9" of Talalay latex layers with ILDs between 15-24. This would be much too plush/soft and may compromise your posture and alignment. This renders

The compression of each layer (mainly controlled by thickness, firmness, compression modulus, hysteresis, and position along with a few other specs) are what creates the pressure relieving cradle of a mattress in the top layers which re-distributes weight and pressure on the bony prominences and pressure points of the body while the resistance to further compression of the deeper layers is what “stops” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and putting the spine and joints out of their natural alignment. The balance between the opposing needs of pressure relief and spinal alignment is the main factor behind all mattress design and theory and why different mattresses match the body types and sleeping positions and preferences of different people … or don’t.

So the key is to make your best choice in terms of the latex type and properties you are looking for (I would identify the qualities that are most important to you) and to choose the thickness that would solve the specific reasons you are looking for this material in the first place … be most suitable for your body type, sleeping positions, preferences, and the layering of the mattress it is going on, … and has the best combination of and tradeoff between cost and quality that you are comfortable with. A good starting point for a comfort layer is 2" (even less in some cases depending on what you are trying to achieve) and then add thickness if you have specific reasons to do so and if your mattress design has enough “room” to add extra thickness without compromising support and alignment.

For example a 6" of base/support system and a 4-6" comfort/transition layer system could give you all you need. It is very rare that anyone would need more than 12" thickness. The example below would be a more balanced design for an average person of your weight range that desires a thicker mattress.
6" of 35 ILD Support base
2-3" of 28 ILD transition
2" of Soft Latex (24 ILD)
1" of Plush Latex (19)
Optional 1" of 15 ILD (if you really think you want the top to be ultra-soft)

While I understand what you “mean” by “bottoming out”, I want to comment that you won’t be compressing the stacked foams to their minimum thickness. All of the foam layers of a mattress work together, not individually or sequentially, so you’re desiring something in the transition layer that matches better with the “compressed ILD” of the uppermost layer so that this transition from the comfort layers to the base foam isn’t so abrupt, if I understand this correctly.

While you wouldn’t have any reason to be concerned with “bottoming out” even for lower ILD ranges (especially for very small +_ 5 ILD variations in firmness), your intuition is correct in that generally speaking you will “feel” more of the upper layers than the deeper layers within the mattress… Unless you are the “Princess and the Pea” type it is not very likely that you would feel much difference between the Dunlop and Talalay or the zoning all the way down through the 9" of top layers. Dunlop, of course, has a different “feel” and performance than Talalay and is less lively or springy. You can see a comparison between them in post #7 here. With thinner comfort layers some people would notice more of a difference than others with transition or support layers that used each material if the top layers were the same type of latex. I am not privy to your conversation with Arizona Premium, but I agree with their response to you… and it would make sense that they would advise you to skip the third comfort layer and go for a 12’ maximum.

Good luck and I’d be curious to know what you ended up deciding. Arizona is one of our Expert members here and you can always reach out directly to them thourh the Ask an Expert feature of our forum.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=77246]
Designing and building your own mattress can be a lot of fun but can also be quite frustrating and involves a lot more knowledge of how different materials, layers, and components interact than many people suspect and I would do some more DIY research by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process.[/quote]

I tend to DIY and over complicate everything I do so I know what I’m getting myself into here. I also don’t have any illusion about this being cheaper than going pre-built, though if it was I wouldn’t complain.
[br]

The reasoning behind 15" is really just for the aspect of fine tuning and was actually inspired by the 16" offering from Foam Sweet Foam, though they include the wool in the cover in their measurement. I am not dead set on a 15", it just seemed like the option with the most flexibility for customization now and in the future. The misalignment and lack of support, however, is exactly what I was worried about. I had a feeling that would be the case, but I wanted to be sure before I purchased anything.
[br]

The most important qualities would be as much plushness as I could reasonably get while maintaining proper support and alignment. We are both side sleepers, and occasionally back, though I feel that has more to do with how “hammocked” the current mattress is. Typically we are almost strictly side sleepers.

[br]

You are correct, the perception of an abrupt transition, or lack thereof, between layers is what I was looking to avoid.

[br]

This is where the advice differs and the waters get kind of murky. Arizona suggested simply removing the #3 layer which would have been the Puralux topper, and opting for the Rejuvenite topper for layer #2. That would have left the layers at 15/19/31-35. That is greatly different from your suggestion and would seem like it may run into the aforementioned issue of lack of alignment and support due to the 19 ILD essentially amounting to the “transition” layer, instead of your suggestion of a 28 ILD foam.

I also wanted to use the 3" copper topper because of the heat conductance/dispersion effects, though I don’t know how much of an impact it would truly make as I was unable to find much in the way of feedback on that particular product. With your suggestion of using 1" of 15 ILD on top of 2" of 19 ILD, I am afraid that 3" of 15 ILD may cause the same “hammock” feeling that I am dealing with now. At the same time, if I went for the 19 ILD copper and put a 1" 15 ILD topper on it, it entirely defeats the purpose of the copper.

This is currently my revised build:

  1. 3" Copper Topper - 15 ILD
  2. 2" Blended Talalay - 22 ILD
  3. 2" Blended Talalay - 28 ILD
  4. 6" Blended Talalay Core - 36 ILD
  5. Bamboo/Wool cover - 14"
  6. Copper Mattress Protector

That brings it down to 13" and the layers are more balanced while still retaining the copper topper as the uppermost layer. Again, if you feel that 3" of 15 ILD would be truly detrimental, please let me know and I’ll explore other options in lieu of that. Also, due to the lack of a 13" cover, I chose the 14" as not to “pre-load” the layers with the 12", though I do worry about the layers sliding. Would be interested in your opinion on that as well, don’t really care to straighten layers every night before bed.

Thanks!

Hi Yodwinder.

It looks like you are making good progress and are on the right track. :slight_smile:

Aside from being a preference choice, the main benefit of a thicker latex mattress is that it can be more adaptable for heavier weights (30 + BMI) and multiple sleeping positions. It will compress from softer to firmer more gradually which means that there is more “range” of compression without the mattress becoming too firm for heavier weights (or parts of the body).
As your BMI is 33+ and a side sleeper I understand why you are looking at thicker options that allow for after purchase customization, but IMO a 12" would be enough for to give you the best of both worlds. Just to give a bit of perspective, in the large majority of cases … 8" - 9" of latex is thick enough to include the combination softer layers (or sometimes sections) for pressure relief and firmer layers for the support that most people of average or even higher weights would need. People that have much higher body weights or larger body types may choose more than the “average” thickness and may prefer the feel and extra adaptability of say 12" of latex. Thicker mattresses can also use firmer materials because thickness and softness are closely related and work together. These would be all good questions to ask the manufacturer or retailer of a mattress/components so they can discuss the differences between the different options they have available in terms that are more specific to the layers they use or options they provide.

At your BMI and being primarily side sleepers, 12" thickness would be more than enough to achieve the right comfort/plushness level you desire and provide the needed support, and I would tend to agree with you about the “hommocked” issues in your current mattress.

Arizona mattress advice is very valuable and appropriate as it relates to your particular needs and preferences; To clarify… the “suggestion” in the previous post was not tailored specifically for you and for your personal preferences (e.g. “as much plushness as I could reasonably get”)… it was a general example connected with the thickness aspect of a “typical” construction for someone of your BMI to show that 16" thickness is more than most people would need. I do not make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I would work closely with Ken/Arizona or in general with any manufacturer or retailer that supplies your components as they are much more familiar with their own designs and materials than anyone else (including me) and they can use the information you provide them about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your local testing to make suggestions based on the “averages” of other customers that may be similar to you.

You are correct that a 13" is more realistic and as far as the copper topper… Talalay Global adds copper in one of their specialty products to add a small addition of heat transfer. Latex, in general, is the most breathable and “temperature neutral” of all the different types of foam materials but the firmness of a mattress and how much you sink into it can also affect sleeping temperature as well. Keep in mind that there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with … there is more about tracking down a potential cause or causes for temperature regulation issues (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

A tighter cover, of course, would allow for less shifting than a looser one. Generally speaking a zip cover with loose layers can have some layers slightly shift or bunch a little and this has to be weighed against the advantage of changing layers either initially or down the road if one layer softens or wears out faster than the others or if needs or preferences change so you can replace an individual layer without replacing the whole mattress. Separate layers also act a little more independently and will “act” a little softer although other factors (such as ILD or layer thickness) will affect this as well. Latex is very sticky so loose layers tend to stay put and if for some reason they do shift over time or because you move the mattress or put it on its side it’s an easy process to unzip the cover and “wave” the layers back into position. There is more about a finished mattress that is tape edged vs a component mattress with a zip cover in post #2 here.

I look forward to hearing about the construction you’ve settled for after you had a chance to speak it over with Ken. I am sure that many visitors would benefit from your learning experience

Phoenix

We’re on the wrong track here lol. I think you’re responding to someone else but quoting my post.

Hi Yodwinder.

:lol: That does it… and serves me well for working on more than one post at a time. Name correction to get us on the right track :wink: … the content is yours though… I’ll edit the post to reflect the intended recipient.

Phoenix

I took your advice and am now sleeping much cooler. My latex mattress was resting on plywood. I replaced it with the coir bed rug as you suggested. I also replaced the waterproof mattress pad/protector with a mattress pad made from bamboo. These changes have made a significant difference in my sleeping comfort. I am sleeping much better, no complaints now. Thank you, Phoenix, for being available to us to offer your expertise in sleeping comfort. I am very grateful.

Hi Jacqulyn.

Thank you for your kind words… I am glad we could be of assistance, but above all, I am very glad that you are sleeping much better and that you tracked down and solved the temperature issues you mentioned in Post $16 :lol:

Phoenix

Hello Phoenix,
I’ve been reading lots of material on your site (including tutorial) in an effort to understand more about latex mattresses and how to make an informed decision. We made a less than satisfactory decision with our last mattress and are determined to get it right this time, so are spending a lot more time on research and homework!
A post that caught my attention was about the customizable split king Presto mattress whose layers can be rearranged to suit each person’s comfort. This makes sense to me if it’s really as easy and practical as they say to rearrange the layers. However, all layers are made of organic Dunlop latex and I’d like to know how this construction would compare to the same in 100% Talalay, or a Talalay blend combination. What I’ve read on the site is that Dunlop has a firmer feel and a less consistent manufactured composition.
What is your opinion on a 100% Dunlop mattress compared to Talalay?
Are there other companies who make a similar customizable style in either Dunlop or Talalay?

  • I’m also curious about the pros and cons of Talalay blends that contain 30% natural latex and balance is synthetic.
    I live in Canada in an area where the opportunities to visit retailers and test various latex mattresses is very limited without travelling to major centres, so most of my research is being done online. Your site and forum information is extremely helpful in making the right decision. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and valued opinions.

Hi Q8canuck.

Thank you for your kind words and appreciation of our site. You are certainly making good use of it and have learned a great deal in the process :slight_smile: and while I am sorry to hear about your past “less than satisfactory” mattress decision, I am glad that you are “determined to get it right this time”. :slight_smile:

You are correct that a configurable system is “easy and practical” and offers the user the flexibility to customize the feel of a mattress not only immediately after the purchase, but also in the future, without having to replace the entire mattress. There are versions of customizable systems that use all latex, latex with polyfoam cores, memory foam with polyfoam or innerspring cores, and even versions using only polyfoam. As you discovered this can be especially useful when ordering something online, as it gives the consumer a bit of a “safety net” to be able to replace/rearrange layers if their selection doesn’t feel as they had hoped after ordering. MFC’s Presto is a 10" all natural organic mattress, that has a top- brass zipper cover that will allow you to open and rearrange the 4 latex layers inside for each side in the split king to match each partner comfort needs.

Your understanding is correct that Dunlop and Talalay of the same thickness and ILD won’t feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). You can see a comparison between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here . It is also true that Dunlop is less consistent in its cell structure (has a wider variety of cell size, shape, and structure) which along with its particle dispersion is what accounts for its greater compression modulus. It also uses more latex in the foam (a higher ratio of rubber to air) and is denser. Dunlop has a different “feel” and performance than Talalay and is less lively or springy but ultimately your own experience is really the only way to know which one you prefer with any certainty. Some people would notice more of a difference than others but generally you will “feel” more of the upper layers than the deeper layers … at least when you first lie on a mattress. This is why I recommend that

Talalay and Dunlop have often been compared to angel food cake vs pound cake. Talalay has a more consistent and even and stronger cell structure because even though there is less latex overall … the cell walls or “struts” are thicker and more consistent. There is a little more about the differences in “feel” between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 linked above.

These component systems are/have been quite popular for many years, and a quick glance at the members of the site will show that many of them offer such component style systems, as well as other mattress companies who are not site members here. Depending on the manufacturer/retailer these systems can be offered in Talalay or Dunlop only or a combination of both. As you already discovered we have a few Canadian Trusted members who offer All latex high quality great value component style systems

You already are aware and engaged in a conversation with one of our Canadian Experts The Mattress & Sleep Company who is closer to your location and who have all latex Talalay mattress options that you can try.
Memory Foam Comfort that you mentioned with their Presto customizable organic (Dunlop) mattresses another of our Expert Members of the site .
Dormio Organic Beds yet another one of our Expert manufacturers of the site have also a wide range of customizable “head to toe” latex mattresses and ship nationwide.
I’d suggest that you call

Synthetic Latex - Styrene-Butadiene rubber (SBR) Latex that is a man-made molecular equivalent of natural rubber Latex (developed during WWII when natural rubber Latex became scarce). Blended Latex is a proprietary blend of natural and synthetic Latex (e.g. 30/70). Latex is blended to optimize the desired attributes of Latex foam rubber for its given manufacturing process and end product. It is less expensive than natural rubber and it is more consistent and durable. There is more about 100% natural and blended Talalay in post #2 here . It is also more difficult to work with to make a consistent firmness so the natural Talalay can be made softer than most Dunlop (except continuous pour Dunlop) but not as soft as blended Talalay. The two different versions of Talalay are very similar in feel and are lighter and more “lively” than Dunlop.

My best suggestion at this point is to determine if you like the feel of Dunlop or of Talalay by visiting one of the stores TAMASC mentioned and to place a few calls along the way or engage some of tour experts on the forum as they would be the best to answer many of the questions that you may have as they are much more familiar with their own mattress designs and materials than anyone else and they can use the information you provide about you and your partner’s body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your in-home or local testing to make suggestions based on the “averages” of other customers that may be similar to you. Of course, I’d keep an eye on the options you have available and your ability to exchange layers or the mattress itself or use the other forms of fine-tuning the mattress after your purchase or the return policy may also be an important part of your personal value equation or to offset the risk that can go with any online purchase.

Based on the thought you are putting into this and the care you are taking with all the research you are doing I think you will certainly end up choosing between some great options.

Phoenix

Thank you for your helpful comments…more information to digest and still more homework to be done!

Hi Q8canuck

You are welcome! :slight_smile: … glad to be of help.

One step at a time is the most effective way to find “the perfect mattress” for you and has by far the highest chance of success … and of course, for any other questions you may have along the way I or any of the Expert members of the site will stand by to help.

Phoenix

I am in the market for a natural latex mattress. Because of price points, I am considering a hybrid of L&P inner springs plus latex comfort layer. I keep hearing a lot about the Avocado mattress, but wonder if other companies that partner w TMU make something similar at a comparable price. Any thoughts? I would also be interested in your experience w this type of hybrid vs 100% latex.

Hi zzipp,

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

[quote]
I keep hearing a lot about the Avocado mattress, but wonder if other companies that partner w TMU make something similar at a comparable price[/quote]

AG mattress has been discussed on TMU in this thread here or this topic here, just make sure to read through the later posts as their specs have changed. Some of our trusted members that carry latex hybrid and ship nationally. (There may be shipping costs associated with purchasing innerspring mattresses)

Arizona Premium Mattress
Christeli
Flexus Comfort ships from CA
Magic Sleeper
Luma Sleep
My Green Mattress
Mattress To Go carries better quality value national brands.
Nest Beddingnational
Quality Sleep Shop
[url=https://www.texasmattressmakers.com/]Texas Mattress Makers
ships from TX
Urban Natural
Bedmasters ships from FL
Beloit ships from IL

I’d keep in mind that in general there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to make specific mattress recommendations for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

and more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in [url=https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/all-latex-versus-latex-top-on-inner-spring-mattress]post #2 hereBoth innerspring and a firmer latex core can be used as a support layer and each has very “different” characteristics but the most important differences are the ones you can feel and that you personally prefer. Both can be softer or firmer depending design so a pocket coil could be firmer than a latex core or the other way around they could be zoned or not all depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing. There is more about this in and more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here or post #29 here There are too many differences between them that it is really hard to answer these types of “apples to oranges” questions in any meaningful way other than through general comparisons that may not represent the differences between two specific mattresses.

While it’s not possible to make specific suggestions because of all the many variables involved that are unique to each person and your own experience is the only way to know for certain whether any mattress/topper combination will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP, Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing an online mattress where you can’t test it in person … a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return and any costs involved just in case your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

I don’t know howm much you’ve read since you found us but I’d make sure to start with the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones where you aren’t able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.

Phoenix