Mattress Exchange - Now on a Pure Latex Bliss...the saga continues...

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
4

Before you cancel, it would be interesting to find out whether the salesman actually knows the density of the polyfoam. Betcha he either doesn’t or tells you “it doesn’t matter.” Did he tell you the soy foam was “natural”? Boy, the mattress biz is about the sleaziest thing going these days.

We recently purchased a mattress online from SleepEZ and I would recommend them to my friends without reservation. First class in every way, including the product. They’re a family business that’s been around for 40 years–that impressed me.

If you do decide to switch from the hybrid Serta to all-latex, you really should try some all-latex mattresses locally before you buy online if possible; the folks at SleepEZ will strongly encourage you to do so. When you find the layer combo that works for you in the store, make sure you note the TYPE of latex and ILD of each layer. That will help you match up what you buy online to what you liked in the store. Still, no two mattresses are the same and I feel anyone who buys online should be prepared to do 1-2 layer exchanges (the cost is reasonable) and build that into the expected cost.

Good luck!

5

Update:

We ended up cancelling the transaction on the Serta “Forrest Rain” model before it was delivered. We went over to one of the recommended local SLC, Utah are dealers mentioned in another post here. The gentleman we spoke with there was super nice and very accomodating. They carry some closeout mattresses at prices well below what we had seen at the store where we originally purchased the Serta. By spending quite some time laying on the beds they had in stock we narrowed our selection to an Aireloom “The Bed” Firm. Although I had originally been focused on an all latex bed, this mattress apparently had an encased individually wrapped coil system with Talalay latex over the top, and perhaps some foam for the quilting layer. The mattress felt wonderful in store. From what I know this model is quite expensive normally (though it looks to be discontinued now). I think it was around $4000 originally. We were able to get it for $1599 with some very nice Aireloom low-pro box springs & free delivery. This seems like an excellent deal. This store has a no-cost exchange policy if we don’t like it (exchange only - if we exchange for a cheaper model we get a store credit, or we can pay the difference to upgrade).

So here’s where things get interesting, and where my inexperrience will show… So we get the mattress home and I take a look at the “law-tag”. It says the following:

polyurethane foam pad: 69%
txtile waste fiber pad Unk: 19% (what does this mean?)
Visco foam: 9%
Polyester fiber pad: 3%

So can I infer from the above that this mattress is actually a large polyfoam core with a few inches of memory foam underneath the quilting? This is almost the opposite of what we wanted. We don’t like memory foam and I certainly don’t like the idea of a polyfoam core as durability is important to me. I assume if there were coils it would say on there correct? (It’s a 14" thick mattress and very firm, which we are ok with…but we’ve only slept on it two nights)

The store owner is a genuinely nice guy, with all positive reviews for his business, so I’m inclined to gve him the benefit of the doubt that he really thought it was the Aireloom model that was a hybrid coil/latex model (From what I can see on the web, “The Bed” model has a few different types of build). Maybe the model we wanted is still on their floor, but I don’t recall seeing other king sized Airlooms there. Or it was an honest mistake and he wasn’t familiar with the inner materials on this one.

I guess I might be ok with the polyfoam core if it’s a denser high quality type…but not sure what quality was used. I’d like to think that since this is supposedly a high end bed, higher quality materials were used. Not sure about the memory foam part. The first night it felt a little hot, and last night not quite as bad. Slept ok, but not fabulous.

Do you think we should give this a shot or call the store and look for an exchange right away? I’d hate to give it a shot for 30 days, decide it’s going to be ok and then get severe body impressions after 6 months. This is a firm mattress though, so aren’t body impression issues mainly with very soft mattresses?

The other possibilities to exchange for are:

-Kluft Royal Sovereign “Harmony” for a few hundred $ extra. This felt wonderful in store. A tad more plush, but still very supportive.
http://www.kluftmattress.com/prodRSov.html. What do you think of this mattress for the price?

-Pure Latex Bliss “Harmony” for $1299
http://www.latexbliss.com/shop/mattresses/latex-hybrid/pure-latexbliss-queen-harmony-3-0-hybrid-regbase

-Brooklyn Bedding Latex mattress (don’t have the model name), around $1400

-Others we didn’t try out yet…

Anyway, I know it comes down to what is most comfortable, but I’d like to know I’m getting the bed least likely to compress too much.

Thoughs?

6

Hi Wayne77,

[quote]So here’s where things get interesting, and where my inexperrience will show… So we get the mattress home and I take a look at the “law-tag”. It says the following:

polyurethane foam pad: 69%
txtile waste fiber pad Unk: 19% (what does this mean?)
Visco foam: 9%
Polyester fiber pad: 3%

So can I infer from the above that this mattress is actually a large polyfoam core with a few inches of memory foam underneath the quilting? This is almost the opposite of what we wanted. We don’t like memory foam and I certainly don’t like the idea of a polyfoam core as durability is important to me. I assume if there were coils it would say on there correct? (It’s a 14" thick mattress and very firm, which we are ok with…but we’ve only slept on it two nights)[/quote]

Basically … yes .,. this would be accurate by weight. It says nothing about the construction or layer thickness though or the quality of the polyfoam or memory foam. The textile waste would be some type of unknown textile “waste” that was purchased in bulk (you can see for example "wool waste and cotton waste and sisal waste are other “waste” fibers that could be on the tag)

No matter where you buy a mattress … knowing its quality or “value” depends on knowing the quality details or specs of every layer (not just the generic type of materials by weight) and is the reason for guideline #2 here.

I can’t know this of course and if you are talking about R&S mattress then they are good people but no matter where you buy a mattress … if you can’t find out the specific details of every layer then I wouldn’t buy it. Liquidation mattresses can be substantially better than the “regular prices” for the same mattress but you generally wouldn’t know where they came from and they could be comfort exchanges, warranty exchanges, freight damage, bankruptcy sales, excess or end of stock, auction lots, or from many other sources. I would be very cautious before I purchased liquidation mattress and again I would only consider it if I had confidence where it came from and knew the details of every layer in the mattress.

I personally wouldn’t link a “high end bed” that originally retailed for a high price with “high quality materials” because they often aren’t. Price and quality don’t necessarily go hand in hand in the case of many mattress manufacturers.

As you can see in post #2 here … softness is a durability factor yes but the biggest factor in the durability of a mattress is the quality of the materials in the upper half of the mattress and in the case of polyfoam or memory foam this goes by density. Body impressions are also only part of the picture because foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it (even without any body impressions) is the main reason people would need to replace a mattress.

I would stick with mattresses where you can find out the specifics of the layers and where you know the quality of the materials are good which would include the Brooklyn Bedding mattresses and Pure Latex Bliss (or any other mattresses they carry that they are able to provide the details of the layering and they indicate good quality materials).

Phoenix

7

Thank you so much! I think before we get too far down the path with this mattress, it might be best to trade out for one where we know the quality we are getting. The guy I spoke with seems very honest and open, so I’m not too worried he won’t work with us.

Thanks again for taking so much time to give us such excellent guidance.

8

Hi Wayne77,

They are part of Brooklyn Bedding which is one of the manufacturing members of this site. They are still a liquidation outlet though which means that personally I would only consider mattresses there where you knew the details of the layering.

Phoenix

9

Oops, looks like the guy sold you the wrong mattress. You got the one that’s almost all polyfoam. There are a lot of complaints about that particular mattress…you can google it. Seems it tends to sag and form deep depressions within months.

Good luck.

10

Hi sleep1,

Oops is right … there’s no doubt that there’s no innerspring and no latex … which is about as different or “wrong” as it could get!

Phoenix

11

Hi Phoenix - here’s the latest + one or two final questions.

We contacted the seller and he was extremely appologetic about the mixup with the bed. He seemed to genuinely believe the one we purchased was an Aireloom model with 3-4 inches of talalay latex over support coils. He took full responsibility and is making sure we are able to exchange for a different mattress at no cost. Anyway, we’ve been back to the store and spent several hours trying out several latex beds. They had a Brooklyn Bedding model that was 3-4 inches of latex over a 6 " poly foam core (the law tag said 80" talalay, 20% poly foam - so maybe that means the core is a blend of latex and foam, not sure…) This bed was priced very nicely but it seemed just a bit too “bouncy” for a latex bed. I felt more ‘on top of it’, and a little less stable side to side when laying on my side. The bed we like most by far (that is still under our budget) is a Pure Latex Bliss Harmony. We can get this one on closeout in a King size for $1400 including a nice low-pro foundation, a “Sleep Tite” mattress protector, and two latex pillows. This bed seems to give us the right support, and isn’t quite as bouncy as the other one, and feels worlds better than the Aireloom they are taking back. So here’s my question;

On the PLB website it says the materials are:
•3" Pressure Relief Layer: Talalay Latex
•6" Support Core: Bonded Foam/Latex

I checked the law tag and it says 90% Talalay Latex, 10% Polyfoam. So do I believe the lawtag or what the website says? Or maybe the 6" support core is mostly latex with a little bit of foam blended in? (It would seem that for this bed to be 90% latex, the 6" support core would need to be mostly Latex). Is that feasible?

Also, does this construction represent a good value to you in terms of durability (assuming good quality talalay latex)? I’m sorry I do not have the weight of talalay Latex used for this model…it is very comfortable, has a zippered cover, and seems very well made. I really like hte idea of being able to reove the cover and changing out a latex layer when the bed starts to become aged.

BTW, about the Aireloom “The Bed” model we are exchanging. Looking at the cutaway image they have on the Bloomingdales site, this bed has some bizare cakelike construction with a bunch of 1/2 - 1" layers of memory foam, regular foams, cotton, poly foam etc etc etc. It’s 14 inches thick and VEEEEERY heavy! It’s also a very firm mattress - which normally I can handle, but this bed seems to have an odd behavior where it feels perfectly flat when you lay down on it, but a few hours later you’re sleeping in a big hole, maybe because of the memory foam buried deep within the mattress. The problem is since the memory foam isn’t close to the top of the layering, my head and lower legs don’t sink in respecitively so it turns into a nightmare scenario, then returns to its innocent flat state during the day when noone is sleeping on it. Run, don’t walk away from this particular model. I wonder what “engineer” thougth this type of construction would be good :slight_smile: Maybe they had a bunch of scrap material and found a creative way to use all of it in a new bed…called “The Bed” :slight_smile:

Oh yeah, are the Sleep Tite mattress protectors any good?

Thanks a ton or all the work you do here!

12

Hi Wayne77,

I’m glad to hear they are doing the right thing and making things easy for you which is good to see. Everyone can make a mistake but it’s what they do about it that really counts :slight_smile:

The law tag lists theingredients by weight and latex is heavier than polyfoam so it would represent a greater percentage. The bonded foam on the bottom is like rebond with pieces of latex and polyfoam bonded together with a resin. You can read more about it in post #5 and #6 here.

It would surprise me though if the actual latex content was high enough for the mattress to have a 90% latex content and while the previous member I linked received information that it was 90% polyfoam and only 10% latex (which would mean it couldn’t possibly be 90% latex overall) I don’t know if that is the accurate composition. Either way though … it’s a durable material and would be very suitable and good quality base layer and the top layer is also good quality.

Talalay latex is a good quality material no matter what the density (unlike polyfoam and memory foam … density in latex is more about firmness which you can test and not about quality). Just to give you a comparison if you look at the Sealy Embody here you can see that it has 3" of synthetic Dunlop (the lowest cost/quality version of latex) over a much lower quality base layer (it’s under 1.8 lb polyfoam) and it’s significantly more. While it may not be in quite the same value range as the Brooklyn Bedding mattresses … it’s certainly in the “better value” range. It would be difficult to change out the layers in the PLB though (although it could still be done with some real care) because the layers are glued.

I think our thoughts are quite similar about “the bed” :slight_smile:

As you mentioned this would be typical of memory foam and if it was deeper it may just take a little more time to soften. There are several versions of “the bed” which is a lineup rather than a model but like you I really wouldn’t seriously consider any of them. The Aireloom mattresses sure look nice though. Pretty on the outside and lacking in the inside where it counts.

I don’t have any personal experience with them but they use cotton terry over the membrane and are similar to most of the thin membrane types of protectors. I would be aware though that most of these types of protectors seem to have a disproportionate number of issues with developing small holes and not being quite as “waterproof” as they may claim (and then not honoring the warranty) or with the membranes getting stuck together with laundering so I would be very careful with laundering them by themselves, using any harsh detergents, and with any excess heat when I was washing them. They do seem to have among the better feedback though and with products like a protector where how they feel is apparent quite quickly and are not so subjective as a mattress I think reviews may be a little more meaningful than they are with mattresses.

Phoenix

13

Hi Wayne77,

I would check the law tag again because I confirmed that the bonded support layer is 90% polyfoam and 10% latex (the other way around and this may have been the 90/10 that you saw) and none of their Hybrid 3.0 mattresses contain 90% latex on the law tags (they range up to a little more than 50%).

Thought I would clarify this.

Phoenix

14

Thanks - I’ll double check and reply back tonight. Even if it’s unlikely the mattress is 90% Talalay Latex 10% Polyfoam, since the construction is 3" of TL over 6" of a blended foam/latex base, it would seem that the inverese would be unlikely as well (10% TL / 90% foam) I would think that if it’s 3 parts TL and 6 parts base, then the minimum % of TL would be 33.33% correct? (ie, it would have to be at least 33.33% TL if the base were 100% polyfoam). Maybe I’m overcomplicating things :slight_smile:

Edit: just re-read your post: I think you’re right, maybe I saw the numbers for the base, and missed the other spec for just the TL. The tag was tucked underneath the mattress, and I was practically upside down trying to read it so there’s a good chance I missed something :slight_smile:

15

Hi Wayne77,

The law tag ingredients are measured by weight and latex is heavier than polyfoam so the law tag would show a higher latex content based on weight than it would if it was based on layer thickness or volume. Some of them with only an inch or so of latex would be in the range of 10% latex while others with thicker layers of latex are over 50% latex by weight.

Phoenix

16

Thanks that makes sense.

Here’s a picture of the law tab indicating 90% Talalay Latex and 10% Polyfoam:

So do you think maybe this mattress got mislabeled somehow? If so, I wonder if there’s a way to find out what model it is… One thing I noticed when it was delivered is that it seems to have some kind of reinforcement on the sides - like a foam encasement or something. If you push down on the edges you can feel a stiff edge and then it transitions to the softer latex. Is this consistent construction with your knowledge of PLB mattresses? I zipped off some of the cover but all I could see on the bottom was a solid colored foam piece, then there was some thin fabric bonded to the edges which wrapped upwards and was sewn to a kind of fabric padding that encased the upper portion where the latex was - so I couldn’t visually see the latex. Anyway, it’s very comfortable so far, and if there are no concerns about this actually being a PLB mattress with the materials the law tag tells us, then we should be good to go.

But…

And this is where things get dicey (yes…again…)

check out the other pics below. the first pic shows the left side of the mattress looking down from the foot of the bed. Its hard to see but the left side has an overhang from the top that bows out about 1 1/2" from the bottom edge. Almost like someone sat on this part for an extended period and it’s causing warping or something. Could this happen with a bed that has edge support as described above, that gets damaged? I don’t really care about the look, it’s not very noticeable, but if this indicates damage, or that we actually got a used mattress, it’s going back pronto.

If you look at the second photo, it shows the foot of the bed which looks bowed inward. The 3rd photo shows the right side of the mattress which appears to be slightly bowed out, but much less so than the left side. Again - these are negligible from a visual perspective but if they indicate damage, this mattress is going back. I will say that the mattress looks flat, but if I run my hand from side to side I do detect two subtle impressions where two adults would lay.



I don’t know…Am I being too picky? I am soooo frustrated… I guess I’m the poster child of all the things NOT to do when getting a new mattress. i.e. don’t rush it. I’ve learned my lesson I guess…

We got this mattress from a closeout dealer - anyone know if PLB would warranty it and replace it? We really like the way it feels so far.

Any insight on any of my questions would be so sincerely appreciated. All of you who have chimed in have already helped me more than one could ask! Thanks so much!!!

17

Hi Wayne77,

This mattress was manufactured on June 15, 2010 and the Hybrid 3.0 collection didn’t come out till early 2012.

This looks to me like the first version of the PLB lineup which used to have a 1" firm polyfoam stabilization layer on the bottom which was removed in the second version and replaced with firm latex and in the third version (the ones that are being sold now in most areas of the coutry) the bottom layer was added to one of the top layers.

I don’t know which of the models this is but if you measure it from top to bottom it would give you a good idea (you can see the old specs here).

The good news is that this is an all Talalay latex mattress with only an inch of polyfoam on the bottom. The other side of the coin is that its about 3 years old and this model hasn’t been sold for quite some time and may even be a return or an exchange.

If you called or emailed Pure Latex Bliss and provided the information on the law tag they could probably tell you which model it is.

I would seriously doubt that it is covered by warranty.

Phoenix

18

Thanks Phoenix - much appreciated! Hopefully these are my last questions:

Do you think the bowed out overhang on one side (almost like this is where the foam edge support gave way from someone sitting on the side a lot) is a concern?

Also, is it common for latex mattresses to have this type of edge support? I don’t see anything on the PLB site mentioning this as a feature, but I can definititely push down on the edges of the bed and feel a firm squared-off edge that transitions into the much softer latex. It feels like a foam encasement. Maybe this was a feature the earlier PLB mattresses had? When I have sat on teh edge of other latex mattresses I don’t feel that and instead feel like I’m sliding off. I actually like the edge support, but if it’s damaged / caved in / or somehow delaminated from the body of the mattress I would be worried.

The mattress cover definitely says “Harmony” on it, which is the name of this current model on the PLB site:
http://www.latexbliss.com/shop/mattresses/pure-latexbliss-queen-harmony-3-0-hybrid-regbase

Based on what you said about this being an older model, and the fact that the model listing in your other post doesn’t include one called Harmony, I wonder if someone found a newer mattress cover that has the Harmony label and put it on the older bed model…hmmm

19

Hi Wayne.
Sounds like you’ve got a used mattress there…a.k.a. a “comfort exchange.” Pretty common at these bargain outlets. The “edge supports” are just a cost-cutting measure. You replace some of the more durable, expensive material–in this case latex–with a cheaper, less durable material–polyfoam. Doesn’t sound like much of a benefit does it? And if those edges are already deforming on this “new” bed, and you already have “impressions,” how do you think it’s gonna look in a year or three? One thing I’ve learned here is that it’s tough to find a bargain on a quality bed–the most you can do is get “good value.” Quality materials like latex are expensive, bottom line. Phoenix doesn’t like to tell people what to do, but I don’t mind saying FWIW that if I were you I’d take this bed back, get as much of my money back as possible and start over. If you like latex then buy a bed from one of the reputable dealers on this site, or locally if they exist. A quality latex bed is going to cost minimum $1,500 for a queen, and anything cheaper has some corners cut somewhere. SleepEZ does have a “special” that is the good quality latex minus the expensive (and wonderful) quilted wool/cotton cover. That’s about as close to a “bargain” that I’ve found.
I wish you the best of luck.

20

Hi Wayne77,

I think I’ve solved the mystery of which mattress you have.

When PLB first came out in early 2010 they had a pocket coil mattress with 2" of latex on top called the Harmony. They later decided to discontinue them. You can see the details here. The pocket coils were foam encased which is what you are feeling.

Pressure Relief: Talalay SS Latex- 2"
Support: Foam Encased Coils- 667
Stabalization Base: 1"
Overall Mattress Height: 11"

So your mattress is an innerspring/latex hybrid with foam encased pocket coils that have probably delaminated or are otherwise damaged. It’s probably a return of some kind and I very much doubt it would be new.

Phoenix

21

Phoenix / Sleepy - you guys are awesome! Thanks so much for the info & guidance. I agree this is likely damaged / pre-used. Luckily the guy we work with has already stated that we can keep exchanging until we find something we like. Just wish it didn’t take so many tries :slight_smile: Anyway, if we have to keep our money with the store, I’m going to ask them to source a new Brooklyn Bedding model for us (since I believe BB is associated with R&S). Those look like a pretty good value. If we are able to get a refund, then we’ll look into Sleep EZ for sure.

Thanks again,

Wayne

22

“Anyway, if we have to keep our money with the store, I’m going to ask them to source a new Brooklyn Bedding model for us (since I believe BB is associated with R&S). Those look like a pretty good value. If we are able to get a refund, then we’ll look into Sleep EZ for sure”.

Wayne, my two cents is that you should INSIST that they give you your money back. They sold you a used mattress at an inflated price (Phoenix link shows it at $1199 brand new) and misrepresented the construction of both mattress you tried. I don’t care how “nice” or personable the salesman is, at this point you should probably go somewhere else. Again, just my two cent. Lew

23

Hi Wayne77,

R & S are connected to Brooklyn Bedding yes but they are a different part of the company. Don’t forget that R & S is a liquidation outlet and most of the mattresses at liquidation outlets are liquidated mattresses that have been purchased in large lots and that people buy for cheap knowing (hopefully) the risk they are taking.

The Brooklyn Bedding mattresses that are sold online are only available online (or you can visit the factory in Phoenix if you live there). They have some mattresses that are made by Brooklyn Bedding but these are not the same and could be more “odd lots” or seconds.

Phoenix