Mattress for back pain

A little background:

I’m tall (6’3") and fluctuate between 210 and 220 lbs, and am a back and side sleeper. My wife is small (5’3") and weighs around 115 and is a stomach sleeper. I have a history of lower back pain.

Since 2009, we have been sleeping on a SilverRest Sleep Shop Therapeutic 12-Inch Memory Foam Mattress (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EPMODC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage) on a cheap platform bed with slats ~ 4 inches apart.

For the first few years, the mattress was great, and we both slept comfortably. The last couple months, however, it has been sagging in the middle. I believe this is a combination of 1) wear on the mattress and 2) the fact that the middle slat in our platform bed broke in our last move, so there’s a foot gap in between slats.

Prior to finding this site, I did some cursory research and ordered 1) a Leesa mattress and 2) a Charles P. Rogers Medera platform (https://www.charlesprogers.com/madera-platform-bed-c-31_214.html?zenid=4qe030b0m46ngrfcblhv6lssq1)… The Leesa arrived last week, and the platform will arrive on Friday.

The first couple nights, the Leesa felt great and I woke up with no back pain. Last night however, I woke up in the middle of the night with excruciating spasms, something that hasn’t happened to me in years. I’m going to try the Leesa on the floor tonight to see if it’s the bad platform that’s the main problem, but in light of your concerns about the durability of the Leesa, I’m thinking that my plan will be as follows:

  • Order a Savvy Rest bed rug to go under the mattress, since the new platform is solid upholstered squares.
  • Go to Nest and try out some of their mattresses (I live in San Francisco)
  • Go to Foamorder and try out some of their memory foam mattresses
  • Choose a new mattress from either Nest or Foamorder depending on what feels best, and return the Leesa.

I realize that you don’t give advice on particular mattresses here (and I’ve learned the hard way to take advice with a large grain of salt) but am wondering if you think my approach makes sense based on what I’ve described above. Is there anything I’m not considering that I should be? Or any other local shops you’d recommend I check out?

Thanks so much.

Hi davess,

While it’s possible that your current platform could be part of the issue if it is sagging under your mattress … I don’t think you will need a bed rug on top of your Charles P. Rogers Medera platform which should be fine by itself.

I would also be cautious about assuming that your pain is connected to the mattress if your symptoms just appeared “suddenly” because it could be connected to some type of movement or twisting during the course of the night.

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … as you mentioned I don’t make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Having said that … your approach certainly makes sense to me.

You’ve probably seen this but just in case you haven’t … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the San Francisco/Berkeley/Oakland areas (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.

Phoenix

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. Regarding the bed rug, I know some people have concerns about mold and dust mites with solid platforms, so I though that the bed rug might decrease the chances of these becoming issues. Is this not something I should bother worrying about?

Thanks again, this site has been invaluable in this process.

Also, just FYI, Foam Order seems to have closed their San Francisco location-- they’re still in San Rafael and San Pablo.

Hi davess,

You can see my comments about a solid support surface under a mattress (such as plywood or MDF) in post #10 here. While they can add some additional risk, particularly if there are other risk factors involved that could contribute to the formation or mold or mildew in the mattress, in most cases if there aren’t any additional risk factors they would be fine and if the support surface of your platform bed is upholstered then it’s not something that I would have any concerns about.

Thanks for the heads up. I’ve edited the forum lists that included them.

Phoenix

Thanks, very helpful. Just a couple more questions (for now at least!):

I haven’t been to Nest yet, obviously, and I plan to test several of their different mattresses, but wanted to ask in advance whether you would have concerns about the durability of the Alexander Signature Select mattress, specifically with regards to my weight and the layer of 4lb foam.

Also, is there a reason Foam Order isn’t a member of the site? They seem to use very high quality material.

Thanks again, and I’ll be sure to report back once I"ve tested some mattresses and made a decision.

Dave

Hi davess,

While there is no way to quantify how long any mattress will last for a specific person or predict exactly when you will decide to replace it because it is no longer suitable or comfortable for you (because this is the only real measure of durability or the useful life of a mattress that really matters) because there are too many unknowns and variables involved that are unique to each person … if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn’t close to the edge of being too soft when it is new (see post #2 here) and you have confirmed that it meets the minimum quality/durability specs that are suggested in the guidelines here then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with higher quality and more durable materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam (in the comfort layers especially) it would likely be in the higher end of the range or even longer and the chances that you would have additional “bonus time” would be higher as well.

Since you are only in the lower 200’s the foam densities would still be suitable for your weight range and I would only have some concerns with the soft version partly because of the convoluted foam (see post #2 here) and partly because firmness/softness can be a factor in durability and it could also be a more risky choice in terms of suitability and PPP as well.

While it would would be less durable than higher density memory foam (or other more durable types of foam such as higher density polyfoam or latex) … assuming that the medium wouldn’t be close to the edge of being too soft for you (and of course it’s unlikely that the firm would be close to the edge of being too soft) it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the lower end of the 7 - 10 year range and I would treat any additional time after that as “bonus time”.

Phoenix

Thanks so much for the quick replies. I feel much more confident moving forward, and will be sure to keep you posted.

Not sure if you saw my question about Foam Order, since I edited my post to add it in, but just curious why they’re not a member here.

Hi davess,

I did miss your comment which I’m guessing you added while I was writing my last reply.

The members of this site certainly aren’t the only source of good quality/value mattresses across the country and there are many manufacturers and retailers across the US and Canada that make high quality/value mattresses that I think highly of that are included in the hundreds of local lists throughout the forum but aren’t members here … at least yet . I try to “point to value” regardless of whether a manufacturer or retailer is a member of the site and membership is generally a side effect of my ongoing conversations with retailers and manufacturers over a longer period of time as I come to know more about them and they come to know more about the goals and ideals of this site. In other words I don’t generally “seek out” new members and generally don’t talk about membership until they ask about it.

When the site first started there were only about half a dozen members initially and the list has grown to now being close to 50 and over the coming years it will continue to gradually increase. In other words the process of membership is somewhat “organic” and is a recognition of the quality, value, and service that already existed before they were a member here. While I would certainly read something “positive” into a manufacturer or retailer that is a member of the site … I wouldn’t read anything negative into those that aren’t and for those that would otherwise qualify for membership but haven’t yet become members … most often the reason is that it has just never been discussed.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=61071]Hi davess,

I did miss your comment which I’m guessing you added while I was writing my last reply.

The members of this site certainly aren’t the only source of good quality/value mattresses across the country and there are many manufacturers and retailers across the US and Canada that make high quality/value mattresses that I think highly of that are included in the hundreds of local lists throughout the forum but aren’t members here … at least yet . I try to “point to value” regardless of whether a manufacturer or retailer is a member of the site and membership is generally a side effect of my ongoing conversations with retailers and manufacturers over a longer period of time as I come to know more about them and they come to know more about the goals and ideals of this site. In other words I don’t generally “seek out” new members and generally don’t talk about membership until they ask about it.

When the site first started there were only about half a dozen members initially and the list has grown to now being close to 50 and over the coming years it will continue to gradually increase. In other words the process of membership is somewhat “organic” and is a recognition of the quality, value, and service that already existed before they were a member here. While I would certainly read something “positive” into a manufacturer or retailer that is a member of the site … I wouldn’t read anything negative into those that aren’t and for those that would otherwise qualify for membership but haven’t yet become members … most often the reason is that it has just never been discussed.

Phoenix[/quote]

Makes sense – thanks!

Something else I’ve been wondering about: Is there any independent testing that’s done to validate manufacturers’ claims about the composition and density of their materials? In other words, what’s to stop an unscrupulous vendor to advertise 5 lb memory foam when they’re actually using 3 lb. How would this be discovered?

Hi davess,

The density of a foam material can be verified by calculating the cubic feet of a layer of material (thickness x height x width) and then multiplying by the density and seeing if it comes to the weight of the layer (or layers)

While there would be nothing to stop an “unscrupulous” vendor from making false claims (and there have been some examples on the forum of a few vendors making false density claims that were “discovered” this way) … a legitimate vendor that has integrity would have a lot to lose in terms of their reputation (which drives their sales) if they did this.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix, I wanted to provide an update here.

My wife and I went to the Foam Order shop in San Rafael today, and it was a great experience. Mike was extremely helpful and patient, listened to our preferences, and dragged out lots of different layers into the middle of the floor and stacked them up for us to try.
I discovered that I don’t love the feel of an all-latex mattress – I prefer the hug of memory foam. The issue with their memory foam mattress though, is that when I tried it, it made my lower back hurt a bit, as I don’t think it was giving my hips and spine quite enough support. After trying a bunch of different combinations, we settled on what will likely be our next mattress (from the bottom layer up):

3 inches of EverFlex V44 firm 2.8 lb foam
2 inches of EverFlex V44 medium-firm 2.6 lb foam
3 inches of 5.3 lb memory foam
2 inches of all-natural latex (soft)

Foam Order can do this for under $1200, which seems like great value to me. I found that the latex layer on top gives my back the extra bit of support it needs, but doesn’t completely take away the memory foam “hug” feeling that I really enjoy. My only questions is whether I should add a 4th inch of memory foam. Mike did say that they would switch out layers for us for the first 90 days if we weren’t satisfied after trying the mattress at home .

For comparison’s sake, I then stopped in at Nest Bedding. Unfortunately, my experience here wasn’t nearly as good. I walked in and the salesman (John) asked me what kind of sleeper I am. I said side and back and he said “try those two” and pointed to two beds, and then walked away… One of the beds (the Honest Beds Cool Sleeper Foam Collection Plush) actually felt great, but it’s $1600 for a queen. When I asked John what the material is he said “foam.” So I looked it up on my phone, and it uses three layers of 4 lb memory foam – clearly not as good a value as the Foam Order mattress I described above. I walked over to check out the Love bed, and John said “those have latex – totally different feel” but didn’t offer anything further. All in all it was a surprisingly disappointing experience.

In any case, I’m excited to order a mattress from Foam Order this week. My question is (and I’ll speak to Mike about this as well) is how much difference adding a 4th inch of memory foam to the mattress will make in terms of feel. I realize that may be hard to answer, but would appreciate any thoughts. I wish I had tried that setup in the store today, but likely won’t be able to get back up there any time very soon.

Thanks again, this site has really been invaluable throughout this entire process.

Hi davess,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

[quote]My only questions is whether I should add a 4th inch of memory foam. Mike did say that they would switch out layers for us for the first 90 days if we weren’t satisfied after trying the mattress at home .

My question is (and I’ll speak to Mike about this as well) is how much difference adding a 4th inch of memory foam to the mattress will make in terms of feel. I realize that may be hard to answer, but would appreciate any thoughts. I wish I had tried that setup in the store today, but likely won’t be able to get back up there any time very soon.[/quote]

Adding the additional inch would make the mattress a little bit softer but unfortunately I can’t feel what you feel or see you sleeping on the mattress so there would be no way for me to know whether an additional inch of memory foam would be detrimental or beneficial for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP. Your own careful testing or personal experience would be the only reliable way to know.

If your sleeping experience indicates that the combination of layers that you are considering is too firm for you then adding the additional inch could be helpful but if your current combination of layers is already a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then the additional inch would increase the risk that it could be too soft which can lead to lower back pain and discomfort.

Assuming that you decide to pull the trigger … congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

You are certainly making a good quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve placed the order and received your mattress and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

I pulled the trigger on a mattress with the specs listed above (I stuck with the 3-inch layer of memory foam). I will let you know how it’s going once I’ve had a couple weeks to try it out at home.

Hi davess,

Thanks for letting us know what you ended up deciding.

If I was in your shoes and had confirmed that the layering you tested was a good “match” in terms of PPP then I would likely have gone with the same combination rather than adding an additional inch of memory foam and taking the chance that it would have been too soft.

That would be great :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Our new Foam Order mattress arrived yesterday. So far so good, as I very much enjoyed the first night sleeping on it (and so did my wife), and I woke up with no pain. I realize that one night is not enough to really judge a mattress, so I’ll check back again in a couple weeks.

Delivery was great, as they sent two guys who brought it all the way up the stairs to our third floor walk-up and set it up on our platform. One thing I’ll note is that the layers aren’t lined up perfectly (I can feel edges sticking out), but I will deal with this once I’ve confirmed that this configuration works for us and we want to keep it. Mike from Foam Order has even agreed to come by and glue the layers together for us once we’re satisfied (although I’m not sure if this is advisable).

We also got a Foam Order organic wool mattress protector: Organic Mattress Covers | FoamOrder. Since I have no frame of reference, I can’t speak to whether it changes the feel of the mattress significantly, but so far it feels great.

We also got rid of our Leesa mattress. Leesa arranged to send 1-800-GOT-JUNK to pick up and recycle the mattress. They showed up on time and took the mattress with no issues. Leesa confirmed the pickup and told me that I will be refunded in 3-5 days (minus $25 for a Target gift card that I got as part of the purchase). So, while Leesa uses some lower quality materials in their mattresses (and I certainly wouldn’t recommend buying one), their customer service, at least is excellent.

Like I said, I’ll check back in after we’ve had a couple weeks to sleep on the new mattress.

Hi davess,

Thanks for the update … and so far so good :slight_smile:

Thanks for letting us know that your Leesa return went so smoothly as well.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix, it never would have happened without this website and your guidance.

Would you generally advise getting mattress components glued together (once we’re satisfied that we have the right combination, of course) or would you suggest keeping them loose so that they can be rotated periodically?

Hi davess,

There is more about the pros and cons of a “finished mattresses” that generally has glued layers vs a component mattresses with unglued layers and a zip cover in post #15 here and post #2 here.

I would personally leave the layers unglued so that you keep the advantage of being able to replace individual layers without having to replace the entire mattress if one of the layers softens or breaks down before the others (generally the top layer) or if your needs and preferences change down the road. While your layers may shift slightly with ongoing use over time or when you move the mattress … if this happens it’s a simple matter to open up the cover and “wave” them back into position again (without pulling or tugging which can tear or rip the material) so IMO the advantages of the unglued layers would be worth the tradeoff.

Phoenix