Mattress hell! need suggestions asap for latex free/ wool options?

So I’ve been on a quest for an organic mattress for about a year now. I am so shocked by HOW bad they are and how there seem to be none that are truly supportive if you can’t use latex! I really had no clue and of course maybe it’s just my comfort level but I have not been able to find a mattress yet that doesn’t sag, sink and cause me back pain (which I did not have until I began this search!).

My former mattress was a Simmons beauty rest maybe 10 years plus and was fine!
I am unable to find an organic mattress that actually is firm and somewhat comfortable.
I have so far tried avocado green and European Sleepworks and now Naturepedic.
Latex totally doesn’t work for me- I felt all the pushback from it and my body was fighting with it all night regardless of the firmness or softness.

I was super excited for my naturepedic mattress (latex free) and it has been comfortable but TOTALLY SAGGING and I’ve only had it for about 2 months. When I say sagging - it’s likely not something the company would cover because it’s more the FEEL of the mattress- it is way too sinky for adequate support regardless of the coil level.
I have tried all the variations bc the sales person here was very helpful and accommodating and so even the medium comfort layer (top) atop the medium coils is horrific and sagging.

Since starting this search I have badly injured my shoulder and now need PT from the accumulated lack of adequate support all these months.

What to do??? Latex is out for me.
Also from what I have learned, any of the higher end organic mattresses (Vispring, Royal pedic, holy lamb) that don’t use latex are all just marketing the same unreliable product- cotton/ wool batting on innersprings. I spoke with a mattress maker and he candidly told me he has stopped making organic mattresses that use cotton /OR wool that is not already pre-compressed over springs because these ALWAYS develop sagging/ impressions and he thinks they are a bad product and won’t sell them to his customers anymore nor can he stand sleeping on them. He is considering creating a mattress that is pre compressed wool on springs. So maybe I can create this myself?

The other change for me is not using a box spring since this organic search began.

Questions:
Could it be I’m not used to sleeping on a slatted bed and a box spring would make the mattress i have feel more supportive ? Was hoping to avoid more metal but if it will help with support…Could a slatted wood frame make the mattress feel saggy or too soft? It’s from savvy rest and the slats are 3 inches apart.

Is it possible that my bed frame slats are too wide apart and are making my naturepedic mattress feel saggy?

What I cannot figure out is whether it’s just not possible to find an organic mattress (latex free) that doesn’t sag and provides firm support that isn’t like a rock to sleep on? Has anyone found something supportive for their back that doesn’t sag?
Also, am I expecting too much wanting some bounce from my mattress? I need to be able to have a firm enough mattress that if I want to shift positions from sleeping on my back to my side, that I can use the mattress for STURDY leverage to do so. I never had this issue with mainstream mattresses. They had enough spring to support changing positions without me feeling I was sinking or drowning in the mattress when I push my feet into it to roll onto my side.

Given that I would prefer to have some bounce/ some support - what do you think about going with a wool mattress ? I have researched them a bit and am not sure if they are good for people who need good support and have some pain issues. Does it just take getting used to not having springs? is it healthy for the back truly (if you’re over 45?)
Any suggestions/ really good experience anyone has had sleeping on a wool mattress ?.. Has anyone had luck adding some padding and /or some springs underneath that might offer some bounce back support? Has anyone tried using pocket coils or innersprings with their wool mattress with success ? How much maintenance is needed for wool? I’m aware it needs to be rotated
I have a frame with wood slats so would be open to the DIY setup but really can’t mess around with risky things/ iffy supports when I need my body to be well supported.

Also wondering how people fare on futons with no springs (cotton or wool) if they have pain or back issues?

Open to any ideas or mattresses you have found that are latex free and hold up even if they are not perfectly organic at this point. I am sensitive to chemicals but I also need to be able to sleep and not get injured.
Thanks!

Hey Venus,

Welcome back to the forum :slight_smile: . Thanks for your new question and your updates.

[quote]So I’ve been on a quest for an organic mattress for about a year now. I am so shocked by HOW bad they are and how there seem to be none that are truly supportive if you can’t use latex! I really had no clue and of course maybe it’s just my comfort level but I have not been able to find a mattress yet that doesn’t sag, sink and cause me back pain (which I did not have until I began this search!).
[/quote]

You have indeed been quite busy with your organic mattress testing this past year, Venus! I read through your previous post to get up to speed on where you left things, and it seems you still have an ongoing work in progress.

[quote]My former mattress was a Simmons beauty rest maybe 10 years plus and was fine!
I am unable to find an organic mattress that actually is firm and somewhat comfortable. I have so far tried avocado green and European Sleepworks and now Naturepedic. Latex totally doesn’t work for me- I felt all the pushback from it and my body was fighting with it all night regardless of the firmness or softness.[/quote]

There are many fans of the older Simmons Beauty Rest mattresses, Venus. Their more “traditional” construction of a quilted top innerspring mattress remains popular today. And not everyone likes the “lively” feeling that latex gives; in fact, 90% of all mattresses sold currently are latex-free. There are many material alternatives to latex available out there for your consideration. If your preference is for an organic mattress, the main component to avoid is polyfoam of any kind in the construction.

[quote]I was super excited for my naturepedic mattress (latex free) and it has been comfortable but TOTALLY SAGGING and I’ve only had it for about 2 months. When I say sagging - it’s likely not something the company would cover because it’s more the FEEL of the mattress- it is way too sinky for adequate support regardless of the coil level.
I have tried all the variations bc the sales person here was very helpful and accommodating and so even the medium comfort layer (top) atop the medium coils is horrific and sagging.
[/quote]

Which Naturepedic mattress do you have and what size is it? To better understand the source of its sagging “feel”/ lack of support, have your tried placing the mattress directly on the floor for several nights of sleep testing to rule out problems with your foundation? Did you purchase directly from Naturepedic? If so, they have a 90 return policy and would likely work to help remedy your situation.

[quote]Since starting this search I have badly injured my shoulder and now need PT from the accumulated lack of adequate support all these months.
[/quote]

Sorry to hear of your shoulder injury, Venus! Pressure point pain coupled with inadequate support can definitely be an ongoing source of frustration and sleep deprivation. It would be helpful to have some of your personal statistics for better understanding what materials and construction would be better suited for your preferences: what is your height, weight, body profile/ weight distribution and preferred sleeping position(s)?

Cotton and wool are two of the most commonly used natural fibers in a mattress’s construction. The main difference in the performance of natural fibers in the comfort layers is their lack of elasticity and resilience, requiring various construction methods to create those qualities. Tufting and other construction methods are used to help overcome the tendency of all-natural fibers to compress and become firmer over time. Unlike foams, the compression and the impressions natural fibers leave in your mattress is not an indicator of material breakdown and is a part of the pressure-relieving properties of the mattress. To characterize cotton or wool as a “bad product” that “always develops sagging/ impressions” is a bit of a unfair generalization, as they are two of the oldest and most widely used mattress construction elements and while they are subject to compression issues, they serve their roles well when cared for properly over time.

[quote]The other change for me is not using a box spring since this organic search began.
Questions:
Could it be I’m not used to sleeping on a slatted bed and a box spring would make the mattress i have feel more supportive ? Was hoping to avoid more metal but if it will help with support…Could a slatted wood frame make the mattress feel saggy or too soft? It’s from savvy rest and the slats are 3 inches apart.[/quote]

From the Naturepedic’s site, the warranty states that the mattress should be supported by a solid platform or a foundation equivalent to what is offered by Naturepedic, theirs being a slatted wood foundation with a center support. Is your Savvy Rest slatted wood frame similar? Many variables affect the support a slatted wood frame offers, not only the spacing of the slats but their width, thickness and type wood used are also considerations.

That could be the case, Venus. Again, trying the mattress for several nights on the floor will better indicate whether the foundation’s support is the problem or the mattress itself.

[quote]What I cannot figure out is whether it’s just not possible to find an organic mattress (latex free) that doesn’t sag and provides firm support that isn’t like a rock to sleep on? Has anyone found something supportive for their back that doesn’t sag?
Also, am I expecting too much wanting some bounce from my mattress? I need to be able to have a firm enough mattress that if I want to shift positions from sleeping on my back to my side, that I can use the mattress for STURDY leverage to do so. I never had this issue with mainstream mattresses. They had enough spring to support changing positions without me feeling I was sinking or drowning in the mattress when I push my feet into it to roll onto my side.[/quote]

A mattress using natural materials and a pocket coil support core is what you’re describing, (and what you discussed with your local manufacturer previously). The responsive nature of the pocket coil array should give the support you seek, as well as the feeling of sturdy leverage for changing positions in the bed. A quality pocket coil support, such as Leggett & Platt’s Quantum Edge Elite Bolsa unit is made with certified recycled American steel and nonwoven fabric, both of which are bio-degradable as well and checks off the organic box on your list.

[quote]Given that I would prefer to have some bounce/ some support - what do you think about going with a wool mattress ? I have researched them a bit and am not sure if they are good for people who need good support and have some pain issues. Does it just take getting used to not having springs? is it healthy for the back truly (if you’re over 45?)
Any suggestions/ really good experience anyone has had sleeping on a wool mattress ?.. Has anyone had luck adding some padding and /or some springs underneath that might offer some bounce back support? Has anyone tried using pocket coils or innersprings with their wool mattress with success ? How much maintenance is needed for wool? I’m aware it needs to be rotated[/quote]

You may find trusted member Shepherd’s Dream’s site helpful for learning more about wool mattresses. From their blog, you can read more about both the benefits and limitations of wool mattresses, as well as learn more about the care required for maintenance. You’ve also gotten good feedback from a number of consumer subscribers on your other post, hope you have found some of those to be useful. You may want to try a site search using the terms “wool mattress” or “wool topper” to find what other conversations may be helpful for your research.

[quote]I have a frame with wood slats so would be open to the DIY setup but really can’t mess around with risky things/ iffy supports when I need my body to be well supported.
Also wondering how people fare on futons with no springs (cotton or wool) if they have pain or back issues?[/quote]

Futons are an intriguing alternative to traditional mattresses and can provide a satisfying sleep for those who prefer extra firm support. If you’re planning to use your existing foundation, be sure that it will support the futon you’re considering as the slats on your current setup may be too far apart and not support it correctly.

[quote]Open to any ideas or mattresses you have found that are latex free and hold up even if they are not perfectly organic at this point. I am sensitive to chemicals but I also need to be able to sleep and not get injured.
Thanks![/quote]

Just a final thought here Venus, regarding organic mattresses. For other consumers following your research and trying to better understand what makes a mattress “organic”, here is a good explanation offered by SleepFoundation.org:

[indent]
“The term “organic mattress” gets thrown around a lot, but it’s only accurate some of the time. Unfortunately, green-washing is all too common in the mattress industry. Brands will advertise “eco-friendly” and “natural” mattress materials that are mostly chemical-based, or tout “sustainable manufacturing practices” without going into detail about how the beds are actually made. These misleading tactics can make finding a truly organic mattress pretty difficult.
Here’s our rule of thumb: to qualify as an organic mattress, the bed should contain organic and/ or natural materials with reputable certifications. The Global Organic Textile Standard (GOTS) and Global Organic Latex Standard (GOLS) are considered the leading certifications for organic components. Additional certifications recognize non-organic materials that are nonetheless natural, eco-friendly, and sustainable. Others indicate the material has been inspected for and does not contain harmful substances. There are dozens of certifications for bedding products, some more legitimate than others.”
[/indent]

Hope this helps and that PT will help ease your shoulder pain until you can get your mattress sagging issues resolved :).

Thanks,
Sensei

Hi Sensei,
Thank you for your detailed reply.
To answer some of your questions:
I have a naturepedic EOS mattress. It is latex free and so it’s just the micro coils and the mattress cover (cotton/ wool).
I have tried all variations of support and comfort layers except for extra firm. Right now I’m sleeping on the medium micro coils atop the firm support layer and it’s still feeling too mushy for me.
I did try it on the floor a few nights where it felt a drop better. I also talked to Naturepedic and my salesperson suggested my bed frame slats were too far apart (3 inches) and so I put double sided cardboard between the mattress and the frame and that helped a tiny bit. I’m still just finding it too mushy.

RE my BMI, I am 5’5 and weigh about 180 lbs . I sleep on my side mostly.

You wrote : “There are many material alternatives to latex available out there for your consideration. If your preference is for an organic mattress, the main component to avoid is polyfoam of any kind in the construction.” I’m curious what other companies/ materials you might suggest. I know all about gots and gols certifications but I am not aware of other materials besides cotton and wool for an organic mattress? I went with naturepedic after searching high and low for other organic material constructions and also looked into Vispring, Royalpedic etc… but they seem to all be various marketings on the same materials. ?. When I quoted what the mattress company owner shared with me about cotton and wool being “bad” materials, what I meant is that he explained that he had made an organic mattress line constructed of only innersprings and cotton/ wool and he was very dissatisfied with how the cotton and wool performed because it developed deep impressions and he found this intolerable to sleep on . He also indicated hiscustomers were very unhappy. He pulled this particular product because he felt he could not stand by this product and said he would only create another wool and innerspring mattress with precompressed wool next time. This is what I meant. I have read a ton about cotton mattresses and people seem to find them horribly firm to the point of being unsleepable while those that are not compressed or made of cotton and wool sound pretty similar to what the mattress store owner described to me. I’m open to hearing otherwise! Has it been your experience the there are wool/ cotton combo or just wool and innerspring mattresse combos out there that people love? That hold up? and can you say more about how/ why the impressions aren’t an issue? isn’t this uncomfortable if there are indentations in the mattress… some kind of sagging quality? Maybe I just don’t know what you mean by impressions.

Also, I have done a lot of research on the site and elsewhere about wool mattresses (without springs) and I still cannot tell if this is something people find comfortable if they have pressure points/ are used to having some elasticity or bounce to their mattress. Any thoughts? I’m open to adjusting to something that will support me in a new way and would add a topper to make the wool less firm but I can’t really tell if a wool mattress might be a good idea or not for me and my preferences. SurroundEwe allows returns so I may try it out.

Also any thoughts on how it would be to put a wool mattress on top of the Leggett springs or on top of the naturepedic support layer for some bounce? only thing is this would likely be too much height for me as it would be the bed frame, then coils, then the matresss and then a topper.

Thank you ,
Venus

I agree that although initially satisfied with the firm support coils with medium microcoils I was initially happy but found myself having a couple of issues with. I then tried the medium microcoils over x-firm support coils and it was way too firm. I have now purchase the flobeds shredded adjustable topper to put under the mattress to create a sort of zoning system, so we’ll see if that works for me. Perhaps that something you may want to try? Not sure if it’s quite what your looking for but that’s what I’m trying(when it arrives) & will update you when it does☺

VENUS, regarding the all wool mattress I have one from white lotus and find it very uncomfortable compared to everything else ive tried. Idk maybe you would like it, just giving you my personal experience. I have not tried wool directly over coils though and that does sound interesting to me.

Thanks Mr. Yabo.
Good to know about the wool mattress experience.
Do you use any toppers? do those help with the comfort?
I suspect that trying a wool mattress either over pocket coils or naturepedic’s coils (if they would sell just those to you/ their bottom layer) OR I wondered about getting what’s called a “tatami” from a good japanese futon shop might make the wool more comfortable. Here is a place that sells them. They are some kind of rice based mat that helps soften futons and go between the mattress and the frame.
http://www.murasaki-oakland.com

Hey Venus,

Thanks for your reply :slight_smile: .

You may find this post regarding Naturepedic EOS Classic interesting, it provides a great deal of consumer feedback on comfort layer trials of the microcoil systems and continues to be a popular subject. While reinforcing your foundation is a good start, you may find some fellow users’ clues there to improve your current setup beyond what your salesperson suggested :wink: .

Cotton, wool and latex are the most commonly used organic materials in mattress construction. For others who may be researching organic certifications along with you, there are two global standards for manufacturing: GOTS Certified applies to textiles (in the case of your research, cotton and wool) and GOLS Certified applies to latex. As far as natural material alternatives, featherbeds, organic buckwheat hulls/ hemp hulls/ millet hulls and Kapok fiber are a few that come to mind. You may considering checking in with trusted members CozyPure or DIY Natural Bedding if you have specific questions regarding these materials, they specialize in several of these and are most knowledgeable in their use within a mattress construction.

"natural materials"Mattress “impressions” can result from compression of natural materials over time with normal use and can be eased somewhat with regular fluffing, flipping or rotating of the comfort layer. You may find this forum site search query for the term interesting, there are +26 pages of content with much discussion of how to care for wool and cotton, how these materials feel in the mattress, and how they perform from a durability standpoint.

The above mentionedpost addresses this question quite thoroughly.

That sounds like an intriguing arrangement, Venus. You may have a more clear approach after consulting with the above recommended TMU trusted members, they could better guide you through how that arrangement may work for you, based on your individual comfort preferences. Hope this helps and looking forward to hearing your thoughts :wink: .

Thanks,
Sensei

[quote=“Venus” post=86724]…My former mattress was a Simmons beauty rest maybe 10 years plus and was fine!
I am unable to find an organic mattress that actually is firm and somewhat comfortable.
I have so far tried avocado green and European Sleepworks and now Naturepedic. …

I was super excited for my naturepedic mattress (latex free) and it has been comfortable but TOTALLY SAGGING and I’ve only had it for about 2 months. When I say sagging - it’s likely not something the company would cover because it’s more the FEEL of the mattress- it is way too sinky for adequate support regardless of the coil level…

What to do??? Latex is out for me.
Also from what I have learned, any of the higher end organic mattresses (Vispring, Royal pedic, holy lamb) that don’t use latex are all just marketing the same unreliable product- cotton/ wool batting on innersprings. I spoke with a mattress maker and he candidly told me he has stopped making organic mattresses that use cotton /OR wool that is not already pre-compressed over springs because these ALWAYS develop sagging/ impressions and he thinks they are a bad product and won’t sell them to his customers anymore nor can he stand sleeping on them. He is considering creating a mattress that is pre compressed wool on springs. So maybe I can create this myself?

The other change for me is not using a box spring since this organic search began.

Questions:
Could it be I’m not used to sleeping on a slatted bed and a box spring would make the mattress i have feel more supportive ? Was hoping to avoid more metal but if it will help with support…Could a slatted wood frame make the mattress feel saggy or too soft? It’s from savvy rest and the slats are 3 inches apart.
[/quote]

I’m throwing in the towel too with my Naturepedic EOS pillowtop. I feel the “sogginess” too. I suspecting that is sags over night. It seems to be supportive (back sleeper) at the beginning of the night, but when I wake up there is an indentation.

What are your observations of the European Sleep Works?