My husband and I are having a hard time trying to figure out which mattress we need. Here is what we have…We have a 9 year old Park Place Cool Therapy 4000 LXVS. Which is 4" of memory foam on top of 6" of latex, if my memory is correct. My husband and I haven’t slept very well on it for some time. My husband’s neck hurts and his shoulders and arms fall asleep after a short time in one position and my hips get pressure points after just a short time in one position and my legs fall asleep. We both wake up stiff and achy. Husband starts out a back sleeper but then turns to side and I am a side sleeper but also turn to back occasionally. We flipped the mattress over a few weeks ago(although it is a no flip mattress) to the latex side(we can see the latex through the thin back cover. It is latex with a 3" foam around the outer edges). We slept on it for a week like this. My husband said that he slept better without his arms, shoulders, legs falling asleep, however the pressure points on my hips were worse and my low back started to ache. (I have L4 and L5 bulging discs and sciatica, husband has an old neck injury that bothers him at times. We are both 5’7". I weigh 135-140, he weighs 180-185). We ordered a 2" soft talalay topper thinking that this might help. My husband says that he’s not sleeping as well and his shoulders and arms are falling asleep but not as bad as they were when we were just on the memory foam. The pressure points on my hips are better, however my sciatica is now acting up with the addition of the talalay topper. We have only slept on the topper for 3 nights so maybe we both need some time to adjust. We went to a local store over the weekend and tried out the Savvy Rest line and we both liked the Serenity with 3 layers of all Dunlop(Soft, Med and Firm), with the firm on the bottom, the soft in the middle and the med on the top. However, only laying on it for about 15 or 20 minutes it’s hard to tell if it will work for us or not. I’m not sure of the firmness of the latex that is in our current bed, but I do know that I ordered the 2" natural soft talalay topper. Our question is how do we know if we need firmer or softer with the things listed above happening when we sleep on the mattress. I have read over the forum but can’t figure it out. My husband has thought about cutting the memory foam topper off of our current mattress and trying just the latex and the topper but I’m not sure that would make much difference since the memory foam is on the bottom now anyway. Please help…to relieve pressure points do I need to go softer or firmer, to relieve arms and legs falling asleep and sciatica do I need softer or firmer. Sorry so long, I just wanted you to have all the info that we have. Thanks
Hi Allianna,
If you are looking for a new mattress then the first place to start is the mattress shopping tutorial here (it has a longer and a shorter version) which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the more important links in the tutorial are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to buy a suitable mattress that is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks involved in each of them and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability, durability, and value.
There are some suggestions in post #4 here that may be helpful for a mattress that has developed soft spots or is sagging (or was too soft when you purchased it) and one of them is what you are doing which is turning the mattress over to the firmer side and adding a softer topper as a comfort layer but if you are sleeping on a firmer layer that was meant more for “support” than for “comfort” you may need a thicker topper than just 2" to isolate you more from the firmness of the support core.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix. This site is so helpful and informative. My husband and I read all of the info on the site and have begun to look at mattresses. We have tried out the Savvy Rest and liked(not loved) the Serenity in Soft, Med, Firm all Dunlop. I have also talked to Spindle and Sleep EZ and if we decide to go all latex, I will probably buy from Spindle.
I also have talked to a friend who lives in another state and she said that they have a Winndom Yorktown mattress that they purchased from Bedcrafters by Michelle and she loves it. My friend also has bulging discs in her back and said that this mattress is much better for her back than their past Savvy Rest all latex. I called and talked to Bedcrafters and they said that they do find people with back issues are more satisfied with the Yorktown than an all latex mattress. The Yorktown has springs and quick recovery foam and it will come with a no spring foundation. The problem is I live close to 3 hours from their closest location, and our schedule does not allow enough time to make this trip anytime soon. I am near Altavista VA and we have very few quality mattresses to actually try out, without a several hour drive. I did find a shop(Henderson’s Furnishings in Forest VA) where we tried out the Savvy Rest and they also have a few Winndom mattresses. However, they are going out of business and their selection is very limited. They have nothing even close to the Yorktown. So, do you know of another mattress that is made with the same materials and cost less than the Yorktown(the Yorktown will be around 3400.00 with tax and delivery) that I could find closer to home to actually try out. I am not sure of all the materials used in the Yorktown but my friend used this forum to choose the Yorktown and assured me that there are no weak links in it.
Also, I would love to hear from others who have bulging discs and whether all latex or innersprings were better for them. My chiropractor prefers innerspring but is not opposed to all latex either as long as spinal alignment is correct.
Thanks
Hi Allianna,
The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your general area (subject to the “value” guidelines I linked in my last reply) are listed in post #3 here.
I would be very cautious about using other people’s experiences on a mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how suitable or how durable a mattress or any specific material may be for you and in many cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on either in terms of suitability or durability (see post #13 here).
The only way to know for certain whether any mattress is a good match for you will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.
My previous reply included a link to the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the most suitable “match” for your specific needs and preferences and how to identify and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them. Using other people’s recommendations or reviews is near the bottom of the list and would be one of the riskiest and least reliable ways to choose a mattress.
There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one in post #9 here but with more complex designs it’s very unlikely that you will find another mattress that uses exactly the same design with the same components and materials and even if a mattress uses “similar” materials it may feel and perform very differently so the only way to know whether another mattress would be similar in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) would be based on your own personal testing or experience and the only way to assess the quality and durability of a mattress and make sure that it doesn’t have any “weak links” is to find out the specifics of all the layers and components inside it (see here). Once again though I would caution you that a mattress that works “perfectly” for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (or vice versa).
Thanks for the heads up and I’ve added a not to their listing in the forum list.
Phoenix
Hi Allianna- So sorry to hear about your pain. First, obviously seek the counsel of your healthcare team who know your specific medical history, functional limitations, etc. to see if they have recommendations. Second you’ll need to consider your own size (height, weight) and shape in this equation as well as your personal preferences related to mattress feel, material composition, and cost.
That being said- Phoenix has alot of good information on this site related to what’s needed in a mattress for alignment and pressure relief. In fact when my dad (who had bulging discs) read this, he said the description of “sinking down” reflected exactly what he was feeling on his My Green Mattress which was not supportive enough:
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/wondering-why-my-lower-back-is-achcy-in-the-morning-only
In sifting through published works, calling mattress makers and talking with healthcare providers, we were looking for guidance given what my parents experienced on their medium ILD Organic Dreams latex mattress. We found the terms “medium firm” and “firm” to be used for everything from a general feeling to coils to latex to polyfoam to cotton. This is like comparing apples to trucks- makes no sense. We needed an operational definition regarding “firmness” that was very concrete and a colleague put it best- what you’re looking for is something firm enough- given YOUR weight- that keeps your spine in alignment. The reality is, for a larger person this may be a mattress with an extremely dense core; for someone petite, the same core may not yield enough to keep them in alignment. It may be too “firm” for that individual. So you need to find what is “firm enough” to keep your spine in alignment that reliably won’t soften or sink to give you problems. Take a partner or friend with you when shopping so they can take a look at your spine on a given mattress and be sure you know what’s in each layer!
I’ve reviewed the response from Phoenix about seeking a solution that’s best for you and being cautious about what works for others. I agree you must test everything yourself- and what you like may not serve your spouse well in which case you can get a split bed made. Nevertheless I must respectfully disagree with the argument that using other people’s experience is risky. Under that theory no mattress-maker or healthcare professional in physiatry or orthopaedics would have any basis for making any recommendations. Science- and rigorous testing- does allow people to amass evidence to support recommendations. Though sometimes we do not have sufficient evidence for absolute proof- we have statistical probability models and intervals with which we can draw conclusions with reasonable confidence (often 90-95%). Certainly this is how science and medicine work. This is how we make treatment decisions for illness, approximate a patient’s response, and amass evidence to innovate in new therapeutic directions. While amassing enough people in a study with your specific injury, body type, age etc. takes time, people in medicine extrapolate such data to use as a proxy all the time to make informed decisions. Along these lines, while individuals may have subjective preferences regarding the cosmetics or feel of a bed, science would show concrete, objective patterns regarding what kind of mattress is most suitable for a given person in terms of alignment, optimal health and functioning. That’s how science works. If everyone who purchased a mattress filled out basic information on age, gender, height, weight, shape, physical injuries and symptoms at the time of purchase- and we followed their symptoms over time in conjunction with mattress specifications we could predict with 90-95% accuracy custom suggestions for everyone. Til then we must use proxies. If you search this forum using the keyword “back” or “disc” you are sure to find people with your injury and weight category who have already made suggestions about works. We used this very information more than a year ago in helping guide a solution for my parents as we built a new bed.
The consensus we came to given bulges and herniation in the lower back- in absence of other conditions- and given my parents’ size- seemed to converge on a “firm enough” core to keep the spine in alignment with a just barely soft enough comfort layer so that you don’t have pressure issues. This is different than guidance for other conditions- certain injuries, fibromyalgia etc. may necessitate a much softer overall feeling, or more “plush/cushy” bed on the whole. I don’t think that an old-fashioned innerspring mattress will suffice for lower back herniation because the weight from one part of your body will pull springs elsewhere. Individual pocket coil systems may very well work- we have them at home in one space with several layers of latex on top that we configured. Our mattress doesn’t “bounce around.” Mom didn’t want the metal so we found firm latex layers worked for her- given her weight-to keep her spine in alignment. However you may need to play with the comfort layers. My parents slept on the firm latex before the comfort layers arrived and at their size it gave them shoulder and hip pain, and worsened my dad’s bulging disc pain. Putting a medium latex layer right beneath the mattress cover acted as a “buffer” to soften things just a tad. Then the slim topper on top of the mattress provided some softness and just enough “give” for the shoulders and hips to sink. I do want to mention that they originally started with a thicker topper- 2". It caused them to sink “too much” and threw off their alignment. This was counter-intuitive but too much softness and they awoke with hip and lower back pain in those instances as well. So just a little bit of cushiness on top worked for their size and they went with an organic cotton case for the topper. Their plush mattress cover provided too much cushioning such that they did not feel as much benefit from the latex. If you’re a larger individual you may find 2 or 3" of topper to be sufficient for you and you may need to play with the topper covers as they did. We consulted more than 30 sources on this configuration and there was a great amount of convergence among those with or treating lower back bulges or herniation. You should do your own research but using what we learned as a proxy in addition to what perceptive bedmakers and healthcare workers found to work has served my parents very well.
One final thing to mention- because of the back pain with the original medium firmness latex mattress, and the ensuing lower back problems, they were sleeping with tons of pillows- between the knees, behind the back, in front of the abdomen, etc. to try to get comfortable. Finally a pregnant colleague recommended the Leachco Snoogle total body pillow. Here’s what it looks like. It’s reasonably cost-effective: Amazon.com
My wife actually had one to lend dad and we were sorry we hadn’t thought of it ourselves. This really helped my dad keep his back stable in bed and remove the unnecessary pillows. He had trouble laying on his back and stomach at length. While the bed kept his spine in alignment he had difficulty staying in a side-sleeping position on his own due to the bulging discs. This did the trick. It also ensured a barrier so that mom didn’t accidentally roll over and knock his back.
Furthermore, he couldn’t sit on couches or soft surfaces for quite awhile. Rolled up behind him, this was of tremendous utility in allowing him to sit as he became strong again. Hope this helps you to feel better.
Hi ProfZ,
I won’t comment about most of your post because there is some good generic information there as far as it goes and within it’s limitations but I will comment on one of the statements that you made which isn’t accurate at all (except for the fact that you disagree which certainly seems to be accurate).
While I certainly respect the knowledge of most health care professionals and the time and study and effort it takes for them to go into practice and maintain and constantly update their knowledge base in the face of new information … I and more importantly most knowledgeable and experienced manufacturers and retailers in the industry that have extensive experience (often decades) with helping customers with every possible set of circumstances and conditions choose a suitable mattress would strongly disagree with you about their mattress recommendations. While it’s certainly true that they would be aware of the more generic information about what makes a suitable sleeping system (good alignment, good pressure relief etc) … most health care professionals (and I have had a great deal of extensive and detailed conversations with many who will generally be the first to acknowledge this) have very little knowledge about mattresses and the properties of the materials inside them or how to “translate” their knowledge about certain health conditions into a specific mattress that would help one of their patients unless this is one of their specific fields of study.
Some of the information and studies in this topic may be of interest to you and the the only real consensus among the most knowledgeable experts in the ergonomics of sleeping systems is that it’s not possible to make specific suggestions based on “theory” and they certainly wouldn’t have anywhere near the 90% - 95% success rate that you are suggesting.
Having said this though, this certainly doesn’t mean that knowledgeable manufacturers and retailers don’t have a basis for providing good guidance to their customers based on their own observations and on their many years of experience in helping people choose a suitable mattress. Quite the opposite in fact as they as a group probably have a higher success rate than medical professionals when it comes to actually choosing a mattress rather than a “theoretical” sleeping system. All you need to do is look at the number of health professionals that recommend some of the most highly advertised mattresses in the industry (such as Tempurpedic) and say little more than “choose a medium firm mattress” whatever that means in any specific terms because as you know soft, medium, and firm is relative to different body types and perceptions.
The guidance and suggestions of knowledgeable people with a strong track record of success (including Tim) are very different from reading reviews that are written by people who have only purchased a mattress that have very little knowledge about the mattress they purchased and generally have no experience in the industry at all about making suggestions or recommendations to others that would in any way be meaningful because a mattress that is “perfect” for them may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on.
A good analogy would be if everyone that used a specific drug for a certain set of symptoms wrote a review about what happened to them and then everyone started using these reviews as the primary basis for how to treat a similar set of symptoms. In the mattress industry … knowledgeable and experienced manufacturers and retailers are the “experts” just like in the medical industry licensed health professional are the “experts”.
If you had read every one of the almost 50,000 posts on this forum (which I have) and spent the many thousands of hours with the type of conversations and research that I have also done with medical professionals, mattress manufacturers, materials manufacturers, consumers, patent applications, research studies, and many other sources of information … the first thing that would stand out is that is that each person is unique even if they “appear” to be similar and mattress reviews are more often a source of misleading information than they are helpful and that reading mattress reviews is not the same thing as legitimate research or the guidance of an “expert”.
While the types of “recommendations” that come from reviews or the suggestions of others that have little practical knowledge or experience about mattresses or health issues (other than their own) are often well meaning and are usually a genuine attempt to help others … without much more knowledge about mattresses and the industry in general and understanding the limitations of their own knowledge and experience as a source of “recommendations” … they have a very high risk of doing much more harm than good which I know isn’t your intent but intent or otherwise … it’s what happens in “real life”.
I’ll add some additional comments in a reply to your other post which also includes some comments which “intent or otherwise” would also have a very high probability of causing some real harm because of some of your mistaken premises or assumptions and what appears to be a lack of practical knowledge about the industry in general.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix for all your help. I have spent hours reading over this forum. My husband and I have been to all the local mattress shops that you suggested. We can’t decide between an all latex or a pocket coil. The innersprings that we have tried locally have felt too firm and also had way too much motion transfer. We spent quite a bit of time on a Serta iSeries Vantage Plus in one store and I really like the feel of it. I ask about the specs but the salesman did not know what they were and he said it would be doubtful that his rep would either. The salesman assured me that they had been selling this bed for years and had never had a problem. He said that he gets his iSeries from a trusted manufacturer that just puts the Serta name on them. Does that sound right? Even if he did wouldn’t they have the same specs as those manufactured by Serta or am I incorrect?
I did have a chance to visit my friend that has the Winndom Yorktown that she got from Michelle at Bedcrafters and I really like that mattress. This would be the one that I would probably choose, if it were just up to me. However, my husband wasn’t able to make the trip and the closest store that carries that bed is several hours away and my husband can not make the trip. He has a crazy schedule and time just doesn’t permit. I wish that I could find something comparable to it that is closer for us. I believe it is an innerspring but doesn’t feel at all like the local options. Any suggestions??? Thanks again for all your help, Allianna
Hi Allianna,
If both of them use high quality and durable materials then the choice between them would be a preference choice not a “better/worse” choice. There is more about the differences between a latex support core and an innerspring support core in post #28 here but you are really the only one that can know your own preferences.
If they are a Serta iSeries then they would be made by a Serta factory and if you can’t find out the specifics of the materials inside it I would avoid it completely. “Blind” mattress purchases are much too risky in spite of what the salespeople that sell them will tell you. The iSeries hasn’t been out for long enough for anyone (including the salespeople that sell them) to be able to tell you anything meaningful based on personal long term experience and Serta changes their mattress designs on a fairly regular basis as well so by the time a specific mattress has been slept on by enough people for long enough to have some meaningful durability feedback it would no longer be available anyway.
You can read more about the Serta iSeries Vantage in post #2 here and as you can see I would avoid it.
Since you are also looking at memory foam there is more about the pros and cons of latex vs memory foam in post #2 here.
I would always keep in mind that no matter how a mattress feels in a showroom or how well you may sleep on it when it is new … if the materials soften or break down much too quickly relative to the price you paid and you lose the comfort and support that was the reason you purchased it and need to buy a new mattress much too quickly after only a few years then it would have little value compared to a mattress that used much higher quality materials that you can reasonably expect to sleep well on for much longer.
The link I posted previously has more information about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. If you are looking something that is “comparable” in terms of comfort and PPP based only on specs then you would need to know all the quality and comfort specs of both mattresses and even if you were able to find this out it’s very unlikely that you will find two mattresses with an identical design or identical materials so the only way to know how a mattress compares to another one in terms of comfort and PPP will be based on your own personal testing or experience. In very general terms … the iSeries mattresses have a pocket coil with foam layers above them that always include at least some memory foam and have a mix of other types of foam as well depending on the specific model.
If you are looking for something comparable in terms of quality and durability then you would need to know the type and quality of the materials in both mattresses so you can compare the durability of the materials inside them but this will have little to do with how it “feels”. Since the iComfort mattress uses some very low quality materials it certainly wouldn’t be difficult to find many mattresses that used more durable materials.
There are always 3 parts to choosing the best possible mattress which are …
- Testing for suitability and PPP (or if you order a mattress that you haven’t tested in person making sure that you have a good exchange/return options)
- Checking the materials inside it for quality and durability to make sure there are no weak links
- Comparing your finalists for “value” based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
All three of these are important in choosing a mattress that is suitable, durable, and is the best value choice for you.
Phoenix
Thanks again. My husband and I would really like to try out a pocket coil with latex mattress but we haven’t been able to find one in our area. Do you know of any that are available in our area of Central VA? Are there any manufacturers in Virginia or NC that make a pocketed coil with latex only with no other type of foam?
Hi Allianna,
I’m not sure exactly where you are in Central VA but the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Charlottesville/Lynchburg/Waynesboro area (subject to the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #3 here and the Richmond list is in post #5 here.
I don’t keep a record of individual mattresses that are available in the many stores or manufacturers on the hundreds of local lists that are throughout the forum (it would be more than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) so you will need to check their websites or make some phone calls to find out which if any of them either carry or can make a pocket coil/latex hybrid.
There are also some sources for other latex/innerspring (including pocket coil) mattresses in post #2 here and the post it links to. Some of these may have some dealers in your area and some of them are also available online as well.
Phoenix
Aliana -
My husband and I have recently visited BedCrafters by Michelle in the Short Pump area of Richmond (West End) and we both like their Yorktown mattress. In addition to the Yorktown, we also like their latex mattress (sorry, don’t know the name) which I believe is configured with 3" of latex on both sides over pocket coils (flipable). It has a firm, supportive and very solid feel (i.e. very little/no motion). vs the foam/innerspring Yorktown. Both are supportive and comfortable to our needs but we just haven’t had that “this is it’ moment. Michelle’s partner Annette has been very helpful and informative each time we’ve visited the store. We are awaiting a new latex mattress they should have in store in the next few weeks = I expect it will have 6” of latex over pocketed coils (non-flipable).
Another retailer worth visiting in Richmond, that also offers a nice variety of Winndom mattresses, is Virginia Wayside Furniture. They have a wide range of mattress configurations including latex.
We have been to several stores recommended from this site in the Richmond area and have also visited the (new) Cozy Pure store in Norfolk, VA and have narrowed our choices to Winndom - we will make our final choice once we’ve had the chance to try the new latex mattress at BedCrafters.
Annette and Trevor (Michelle’s son) have been extremely informative and helpful - it would be worth the trip to visit them and experience their Winndom mattresses in person.
Hope that is helpful -
Christine
Hi CMac,
Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences … I appreciate it 
Phoenix