My 3" - 5.3 lb memory foam slab from foamorder arrived today. It took about ten days for them to ship after the order was placed. Then another six days via UPS ground. It was very well packed.
When I opened my old Tempurpedic mattress cover I was surprised to see that the old memory foam layer was actually two pieces glued together. I measured the total thickness of the old memory foam at 3.5". There was a 0.75" layer glued on top of a 2.75" layer. The latex I bought to replace the base layer ten years ago looks and feels great. The old memory foam is quite discolored and feels spongy.
The new memory foam is 3", so the mattress is a bit less thick, but I donât think that will be a problem. The new foam smell is not that bad. Compared to the old foam, the new pink foam is significantly more firm and has the full memory effect I remember from when the Tempurpedic was new. Once zipped together, the combination of old latex and new memory foam feels significantly more supportive. Even though the foam is a half inch less thick, I donât feel as though I sink down as close to the support layer, even after a twenty minute nap. It will probably take a few nights sleep to confirm the improvement. I have the feeling the latex will last as long as this new top layer.
Itâs been three nights. My wife is thrilled with the improvement in comfort and didnât want to get out of bed this morning. It was like replacing a limp sponge with a marshmallow. Clearly, the old memory foam was shot and not working any more.
Room temperature was 67Âş F last night at bedtime. When we first got the mattress, the Tempurpedic foam became quite stiff when the room temperature was in this range and took a while to soften with body heat, especially with the wool fleece mattress pad we use. The new foam, while feeling very viscous, seems less sensitive to temperature. We both think that the new memory foam layer is more comfortable than the original Tempurpedic when it was new. I notice the improvement most in my elbows.
When we replaced the original polyfoam support layer with latex ten years ago, it turned out to be much more supportive. Now the comfort layer is also improved over the original. The only remaining component of the mattress is the zippered cover emblazoned all over with the Tempurpedic logo.
One year on, mattress success has turned to failure. The 5.3lb, 3" memory foam topper from foamorder.com has turned to mush. I have lost about ten pounds and am just below 200, but I now sink much deeper into the memory foam than when it was new last year and it does not seem to have any memory effect at all. I sleep on my stomach and my back has started to bother me.
Even though it is nearly 10 years old, the 4" firm Talalay latex base layer seems to be in great shape with no signs of sagging or loss of support. Because the latex has been so durable, I am thinking of replacing the comfort layer with a medium firmness latex. Right now I am looking at Pure Green from Sleep on Latex in the same 3" thickness as the memory foam. My only concern is pressure relief. I sometimes wake up with sore elbows when traveling if I sleep on a firm spring mattress with no topper. We do use a fleece mattress cover and that has mainly had the advantage of keeping our memory foam from feeling hot. Any thoughts?
Iâm sorry to learn youâre not enjoying the feel of your memory foam topper. As we discussed in one of my replies to you a little over a year ago, it is typical that memory foam will soften over time under the heavier parts of the body especially (virtual impressions) more than sag (visible impressions) and will also lose some of its âmemoryâ.
Assuming the latex core is still in good shape (you can place it directly upon the floor and lie back upon it without the memory foam topper on it) and there is no sag in your foundation, choosing to go with a latex upper 3" topper can be a good alternative, although it will have a different feel from the memory foam that your wife really seems to enjoy.
Latex has an unusual combination of surface softness and deeper firmness/support that comes from its elasticity, itâs point elasticity (ability to conform to the shape of a body) and its compression modulus (the ability to get firmer faster with deeper compression than other types of foam). This means that it can enhance the pressure relieving layers above it because of its surface softness and point elasticity but it is also very supportive and can âstopâ the heavier parts of the body from sinking in too deeply. It is also very resilient (it returns a high percentage of the energy of compression instead of absorbing it like memory foam which has very low resilience) so it can enhance the âfeelâ of the mattress by making it more responsive and more adaptable to different body profiles and sleeping positions rather than the less responsive feeling of memory foam or the stiffer and less adaptable characteristics of polyfoam. Latex is also a very durable material (itâs the most durable of all the foam types) so it can add to the durability of a mattress compared to other materials but the deeper layers of a mattress have less effect on mattress durability (a mattress will soften and break down from the top down) and more of an effect on performance and support/alignment so this would be less of a factor in its use.
All memory foam will tend to be in the very plush category (low to mid-teens for IFD). Thereâs more about selecting a latex topper here, but if you need a fair bit to a lot of extra softness then a 3" topper would probably be the best choice. 19 - 24 ILD in latex would be considered to be in the soft range for âaverageâ body types while very light body types may be OK with an ultra soft 14 ILD and heavier body types would probably do better with 28 ILD and above. If you choose a topper that is âtoo softâ, you can actually end up âfeeling throughâ it to your latex core, especially when placing your weight on your elbows, so the 19-24 ILD range may be a good place for you to start investigating.
Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing a topper where you canât test the combination in person ⌠a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would also make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return the topper and any costs involved just in case a topper you choose also doesnât turn out as well as you hoped for.
I went ahead and ordered a 3" medium latex topper from Sleep on Latex with an ILD of 30 to put on top of my existing 4" firm latex foundation. Not sure of the foundation ILD, but it is probably significantly higher than 30. Lying directly on it, it is much too firm to use as a comfort layer. That leaves about an inch of room in the mattress cover in case I need to add 1" of memory foam or soft latex for a final comfort layer.
As for the one year old 5.3lb memory foam from foamorder, it was great when we first got it. Now, I can press my fist into it and go right down to the latex support layer without much force. The Tempurpedic memory foam was about the same density, but didnât start to change until it was well over 10 years old. I plan on cutting down the year old memory foam to put on a dense urethane foundation for a full size guest bed that currently has a 15 year old coil mattress. It was an expensive piece of foam and I would hate to waste it. Thanks for your in depth response.
rvsarch - Sorry to hear about the problem youâve encountered with your MF topper from foamorder. According to their website they have an uncommon warranty regarding softening of their 5.3 lb memory foam toppers as detailed below, so you might want to check with them regarding a potential claim. Hope this helps!
5.3-lb Memory Foam mattresses or toppers, EverFlex toppers These are warranted not to soften more than 10% or form permanent dents for 15 years. If you think yours has softened simply press down on a spot of the foam that doesnât get much use (such as near your head) and compare the resistance with a high-use spot (such as in the middle of where your body normally rests). If you can tell a difference of at least 10% in firmness, you probably have a valid claim. We will pay for any freight charges for mattress failures in the lower 48 United States. You will receive a credit equal to your original purchase price towards currently advertised merchandise. We do not offer refunds. Our foam toppers are competitively priced and therefore are excluded from the free shipping warranty offer. Our Basic (discount) Memory Foam mattress has a 10-year warranty since it uses DuraFlex⢠base foam. Mattress warranties are to the original purchaser onlyânot transferable.
Congratulations on your new topper purchase! :cheer: I hope it provides the comfort that you desire.
In case you hadnât already investigated it, Sweet Dreams (thanks Sweet Dreams!) did post some information regarding the warranty from Foam Order on their 5.3 lb memory foam toppers.
I received the latex topper from Sleep on Latex in just two days and after three nights sleep, my wife and I are very pleased with the excellent support it provides. 3" of medium latex on top of the 4" firm latex foundation seems just about right for us. My back is already feeling better and it is not so difficult to move around on top of the bed, compared to feeling mired down in the super soft memory foam. The only thing I miss is the pressure relief the memory foam provided at my knees and elbows, but the latex is comfortable enough under our wool fleece mattress cover.
When I removed the memory foam I was surprised that in just one year, the pink color had almost completely faded and the edges were yellowed. Again, the original Tempurpedic memory foam was fine for over a dozen years while the 5.3lb replacement foam softened significantly in less than a year. I get the sense that latex is a much more durable material. Thanks for the link to the warranty info. It might be worth returning the memory foam for a credit instead of trying to reuse it on our guest bed. You have been very helpful. THANKS!
Iâm happy that you are sleeping better with your new topper. You are correct that it should be a much more durable product than your memory foam topper, and the latex is much easier to reposition upon than memory foam.
As for the color change, there will be difference in oxidation/UV of a foam depending upon the covering used and the amount of anti-oxidants added to the product. I think, as Sweet Dreams brought up, itâs at least worth investigating regarding a credit/replacement for your topper (whatever might be offered if itâs found that you qualify for a warranty replacement).
Itâs been almost a year since I replaced the memory foam comfort layer with latex and the mattress feels just as good as it did when I made the change last November. No signs of any deterioration in the new latex foam. Clearly the problem was not with the 10 year old latex base layer but it was the replacement memory foam I purchased in 2016 that softened and failed me. I think I prefer the feel of the latex to memory foam anyhow and my experience over time is that latex is more stable than memory foam. Certainly, the latex base layer has lasted much longer than dense polyfoam that came with the original Tempurpedic. I am now a convert to using latex as both a base and a comfort layer. I am thankful for all of the good information Iâve gotten from this forum.
Thanks for the compliments about the site⌠but especially thank you for taking the time to provide a one-year update of your experience with your âsleep on latexâ - latex topper. :lol:
I am happy that you continue to sleep well and that you fully âconvertedâ and prefer the feel of latex to that of memory foam (I had a similar experience) . It is fairly interesting to observe the of the power of habits and what it takes to change them ⌠many of us tend to want stick to the âfeelâ we know just because itâs familiar and rarely take a step into the unknown in search of a better alternative. I am glad you did and that it paid off!
Hello Phoenix or anyone else who can comment, I hope it is ok to hijack this thread. If its not please move to where it needs to go. I currently have a Tempurpedic Advantage. Its over 10 years old but was not used for most of this time so it is in really good shape. Problem for me is that it is way to firm (one of their most firm models) to the point of crippling me (I have neck and lower back issues.) We were basically given this mattress and I was excited bc I occasionally sleep on a 20 yr old tempurpedic at a friends house that I believe must be the classic and I love it. I say the classic bc after calling tempurpedic a few times, the last rep I talked to said he the oldest catalog he had was 2003 and he thought I must be talking about the Classic because the original was to firm to be this bed. I have also slept on a cloud of some sort (whatever it was was very supportive but very soft in its pressure relieving top part.) I know me not having these specific names might make my questions hard to answer but I will just put them out there and see what you think. I have read this forum for about 6 months. I have laid on several mattresses in the big name stores to try and find what feel I might be going for in current models. I didnât really plan on buying from box store unless I found a closeout/clearance store. I have found a few in my area so that is an option but I would rather buy new mattress that will last if buying new mattress. I like the feel of the icomfort blue max touch 1000, and I briefly tried the beautyrest black hybrid tolliver. I know they are completely different and the tolliver is listed as firm so not sure that I laid on it long enough or maybe its just plusher than the other firms bc of its price range. I also see several tempurpedics that are on craigslist in my area that are a few years old. Those are 2 choices, without talking to any local small shops.
Thatâs all background. My real question comes to adding foam to my current tempurpedic. I have tried 2 different foam toppers. Unfortunately they are from big box stores and did not work for me. One was a gel infused memory foam that was 3 inches but it was egg crate shape so really only probably 2 inches. It sucks bc its too gooey and after 20 mins I was basically laying on the hard foam of the mattress since it was not being heated by my body temp⌠I tried it for a few wks and was in horrible pain all night and started having headaches coming from my neck. Then someone gave us a 2 inch memory foam topper (again from a box store and have no idea of the brand/etc. It was to thin but in desperation I doubled it. It was a little better than the other but at that thickness is still a bit gooey and I still have the shoulder and neck issues. So I was thinking that maybe those foams were just not dense enough or of good quality. I have read the threads you have suggest to others about toppers and in diy threads. I was wondering if you might be able to give me suggestions of what might be best in changing my advantage to a classic or some sort of soft cloud. I understand you can not tell me what will be good for me but given those parameters, what do you think. Would a better quality topper or perhaps buying foam from a company that lets one diy mattress layers be worthwhile? I was thinking that perhaps I need to different density/types of foam on top of the advantage. I guess I hate to ditch the advantage but also donât want to spend 600$ on foam that might not work. I have not called any of the trusted foam/mattress companies but that may be my next call. I live in central florida if that helps w/ your suggestions. Thanks for all the work you do and time you put into helping us.
Thank you for your kind words! I appreciate it and ⌠Welcome to our Mattress Forum!
I am sorry that your Tempur Advantage is not working out for you, but there are a few options that you can try and make it work for you. Youâve certainly done your research and your understanding of the underlying issue and what can be done to resolve it is good. You are correct that the Advantage is one of Tempurâs firmest lines (rated as Firm on their internal scale, which would certainly account for the pains and restless nights. The Advantage is an 8" mattress with
⢠0.8" of TEMPUR material
⢠2.8" of TEMPUR material
⢠4.4" AirFlow System Base Layer:
⢠Removable/Washable Velour Cover
As youâd like to keep the Advantage mattress and as you indicated that it is in good condition probably adding the correct thickness/plushness topper or even replacing some of the existing layers within your current mattress could work well. The mattress has a removable cover and you certainly have quite a few options to make it plusher.
From your description, it sounds like you are not enjoying the feeling of the Memory Foam. The âgooinessâ and the changing overnight with the temperature is something that is characteristic of memory foam, especially lower density. Memory foam can be a âlove it or hate itâ material and it certainly has some âweaknessesâ that for example, latex doesnât have even though they are roughly equivalent in terms of their ability to relieve pressure. Lower density memory foams (which is most likely what you experimented with) will tend to have a lower functional ILD which means that in combination with the thickness of the layer you may feel the layers under them more than higher density memory foams which can also quite dramatically affect the perception of softness of firmness. In other words, I agree with you and youâd be probably wise to avoid it as your experience indicates you donât do well with it
One of our Trusted Members, Christeli, has much experience with approximating the feel of Tempur lines for customers that have tried them and liked a certain feel. You could reach out and ask for their guidance in âfixingâ this bed. You could ask if they would be willing to send you a layer to replace some of the existing firmer layers within the Advantage or even send you a topper that would be a better match for you. If you chose to go with a memory foam rebuilt Iâd keep in mind variables I mentioned before and keep in mind that 4 lb memory foam in the way it is usually formulated by most companies will usually feel softer than 5 lb (or 7 or 8 lb) memory foam in most uses. They will also tend to be more âresponsiveâ (compress and come back faster) and less temperature sensitive. In addition to this ⌠they are usually layered in a way (as in the Cloud series) that will increase the perception of softness of a mattress.
Another option would be to DIY rebuild the Advantage bed as described above but using one or two latex layers instead, either by adding a latex topper or replacing one of the memory foam layers with a latex layer or both. A quick search under our Trusted membership listing can lead you to several manufacturers/retailers (some of them central Florida) that can certainly provide latex layers or toppers and also assist you with selecting a firmness that has the best chances of success for you.
Yuu can try to call Bedmasters, Fox Mattress, and Luma Sleep, that are located in Florida.
I have also reached out to mattresses247 who are a very experienced component layer supplier and carry good quality/value layers as thin as 1" and may be able to assist you with your rebuild.
I hope this gives you enough options to help make good use of your Advantage mattress.
Bringing this back to the original thread, I would say that the biggest problem with selecting a mattress is the inability to really get to know a particular solution without several months of living with it and then further, not having any idea of the longevity of the materials involved. When we switched from a conventional coil mattress to the Tempur-Pedic, we were thrilled. It was a world of difference and we slept better. Then when the Poly base layer failed just a few years later, not so thrilled as there was no noticeable sag and no valid warranty claim under their terms. Replacing that base layer with firm latex, brought our sleep experience to a new height. As the original memory foam comfort layer slowly deteriorated, our sleep began to suffer. Since we had no experience with a latex comfort layer, replacing the memory foam with a similarly dense foam brought us back to great sleep. Then a rapid deterioration of the new memory foam, just one year instead of the twelve it took for the Tempur foam to fail, brought us back down to a poor sleep experience. Replacing the comfort layer with latex, proved different from the memory foam, but turned out to be an excellent solution. Seems like latex has the very real benefit of durability. To my mind, this quality is paramount, since it is so difficult to detect the slow deterioration of a mattress over a period of months or even years.
Thank you both for the quick replies. I will call around to the companies suggested to see what they suggest and have. This wk while I was at a friends I unzipped their temp classic (again I believe thatâs what it is) and took a look and feel at the layers. Now that Im home again I will do the same to the Advantage. It would be so nice not to have to completely replace the mattress. Rvsarch it is great to know that you had such good results with replacing multiple layers on your mattress. I plan to really examine my base support layer to make sure it is not failing. I have not felt anything but I know it could be creeping up. If it is failing I think I would just replace the mattress bc we do have so many closeout kind of places around me. Late last night I discovered a guy who has several that were never slept on for a really good price. After calling around and getting a feel for how many choices in layers I have and how long it will take to receive them, I will go and check his mattress out. If they are in good shape I may just buy one. I donât know what models he has yet. The geek in me loves the idea of tweaking out my Advantage but not sure my body is up for waiting and experimenting. I will definitely post back how it went w/ calling around and what I decide. Maybe it will help people in the future. This site is an amazing resource. Thanks Everyone!!
You are welcome! ⌠and thanks for the kind comments
I certainly understand why youâd want to avoid the trial and error that comes with rebuilding an older bed. Outside of whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP ⌠a mattress is only as good as the quality of the materials inside it so regardless of the name of the manufacturer ⌠youâd need to find out the specifics of what was inside any mattress you will be looking at (see this article ). When assessing any product, I suggest you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
Before trying any of the closeouts first I would get some basics in place and read the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices ⌠and know how and why to avoid the worst ones which would include the major brands such as Serta or any mattress where you arenât able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.
Iâll be interested to learn of your eventual decisions.
Phoenix
@ rvsarch
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience, comments and of course the lessons learned along the way⌠youâve certainly had to make quite few changes to your bed ⌠all ends well when you sleep well.
Well I called Christeli, and Fox yesterday and explained everything. Christeli said that they donât sell toppers or individual layers anymore bc they found that most people dodnât end up happy w/ the toppers and ended up buying a bed later. Fox was similar but Im not sure if they do sell toppers or not, bc my questions regarding fixing the bed were kind of blown off and instead I was told about their beds. I did ask about there beds In saying this, I am not criticizing these companies bc I knew going into it that they are in the business of selling beds, not fixing old ones. I did ask fox about there beds so cant knock her for talking about them.
From Christeli, the Madeline was suggested to me for my size and my partners. After talking to Christeli, I took my partner to a mattress store that carried tempurpedics so we could try the similar to Madeline together. I explained how to lie on the mattress and think about how each part of the body felt. Im the one w/ the pain so mainly I hear, âwhatever you like is good.â I had previously thought the cloud supreme a tiny bit to firm and the cloud elite perfect and the cloud lux maybe to soft. They all felt good but being in Ive been sleeping for 3 days now at home my body is unhappy so probably the softer ones, even the lux felt better to me than last wk. I called Christeli back and said I was concerned that the Madeline was going to be to firm and that I was considering the Briella (1 inch thicker of the same density foam) which is said to be a little softer. I also said I had seen a couple people online say that they though the madeline hard but of course I know everyone is different and that there are probably are 1000 people that didnât think that so I know to take it w/ a grain of salt. He said he had had more people say it was to soft than hard. So I hung up thinking well tomorrow I will figure it out. Today I wake and I think I am really concerned about the fact that there is only one layer of memory foam at one density. From what ive read, its 5 lbs (I think I read that here but it could have been on another site so not positive on that) so thatâs good but the fact that there is no softer layer concerns me. Looking at the Briella which is little more pricey, its the same foam ( I assume) and again only one layer. The next mattress up is the Danieli which is compared to the rhapsody and firmer. I do plan to call Christeli back and make sure that it is 5lbs and that the Briella has the same foam but I believe I am correct so at this time, that info is what I am working w/.
I glanced on bedmasters site and they have only 3 beds w/ prices and they are a little more than what I want to spend. Christeliâs having a sale so thatâs why I can even look at 2 of the 3 above.
I glanced on other sites like luma and another one, but its almost to many choices. I had set on Christelis but now my concerns are making think, should I wait but then the sale will be over. OF course I donât want to make the purchase based on sales. Not sure that there were any questions in this post, but maybe someone has comments. I would love to hear from anyone who bought any of the 3 Christelis above and how it worked out, specifically how much softer they became. Of course I would not make my choice on someone elses experience but it would be nice to hear. Most of the reviews on other sites donât state what Christeli they bought.
After looking at the luma site it seemed to me that I saw one of their mattress in a big box store but maybe it was luna. ?? Thatâs where I am at the moment. Will update as I decide. There is still a used cloud elite that I could have for under 1/2 price of anything new but not sure if I want to go that route now that its a few years old. Then there is also a cloud supreme for the same price as the Christelis but it is a at wholesalers and I have not seen it in person.
I will say for those looking at tempurpedics, in the past if it was made 10+ years ago I would not have a problems w/ gently (guest room types) tempurpedic but I donât believe they are what they use to be. I saw 3 tempurpedic Flex this wk at a closeout store that had layer separation. Of course they did not say that was what it was but my eye saw it across the room. All from different shipments so if anyone is buying a Flex make sure its been handled perfectly.
Oh forgot to say, I have read all the steps on how to feel out a mattress for my body and my partners, and about the materials. Not sure if I said it before but Ive only gone to the big stores to try the tempurpedics, and all the closeout/clearance mattress I talked about are tempurpedics. Well they have others but unless it was a 3000 mattress I could get for 500 or less, im not buying. So the mattress I buy will be from one of the trusted choices or a company that released similar info, or a tempurpedic at less than 1/2 price. NOt sure if I said all that in my previous posts. I guess what I have to decide today is if I want to go w/ Christeli. Im sure their sale is ending but if I donât feel like the 1 layer of memory foam would work for me, I feel like im starting over in the hunt. Their return policy of only switching out models and not returning funds concerns me bc the only model that I can afford is the Briella or the Danieli at the current sale price. If in a month I decide its to firm and the flipping of the base doesnât work, I would not be able to afford to upgrade so I would be stuck.
As we discussed in one of my replies to you a little over a year ago, it is typical that memory foam will soften over time under the heavier parts of the body especially (virtual impressions) more than sag (visible impressions) and will also lose some of its âmemoryâ.
You are correct that it should be a much more durable product than your memory foam topper, and the latex is much easier to reposition upon than memory foam.