Thank so much for your input. NINE over the past year!! Wow, you really went through the ringer. I think I am done trying to sort through the millennial disruptor beds and am really only looking at manufacturers from TMU.
I did look at Arizona and didnāt see an easy returnā¦and Nest definitely caught my eye too. They seemed a bit pricier than similarly constructed āoff brandsā, but theyāre still on my list.
I have also thought of a third optionāsimply buying a new topper for the Zenhaven. Maybe Iām closer than I realize and more in the tweaking stage? But, itās more tempting to start from scratch with a manufacturer who can really help me choose or build to spec, knowing how it will all work together, and also buying myself more time to return if I really need it.
I take it backācutting the unstretchy, canvas/tarplike material off the back of the topper DID make a difference. I felt less pressure under my hip and shoulder and like the layers were āinteractingā more, creating a more responsive bed and more sink overall. This was the first time I felt the material to rise up under my waist.
Iām still not decided on what Iāll do, but it was a powerful testament to how minor materials can really change the feel of the bed. Now it makes sense to me why a bed with the exact same build and ILD could feel totally different.
I also tried out the ādoubledā layer to get a feel for 3 inches of light talalay. I could see what folks meant when they said they got a zero gravity sensation from latex. The pressure disappeared. I kinda liked it, but I also kinda felt like I was getting eaten a bit by the bed. It was a struggle to get up or flip over. Granted, I was on a narrow piece of folded latex, so a full bed might be different. But I think that layer of fluff might actually be too much. Looks like my sweet spot is somewhere in between.
Anywayā¦I slept over 9 hours straight! But more time is needed to come to a plan.
I had a friend take some pictures of me on the bed to confirm what I feltā¦it appears with or without a pillow, my hip and shoulder arenāt sinking in enough to allow my spine to straighten, causing me to capsize at the waist.
It seems the pillow worsens it but my shoulder would be really jammed in there without it.
I just heard back from them that they think their product would be too similar to the Zenhaven for me. It looks like they are semi-custom and donāt do toppers at all so they donāt have an option to make it softer. Shoot!
I have emailed SleepEZ and SleepingOrganic next in hopes of getting a dialed recommendation for what to build. I chose them due to their availability of talalay and decent return policies but am really hopeful to hear back from SleepEZ since theyāve been in business the longest, are participating members here, and have a better return policy (should I need it which I really hope I donāt!) But, only Sleeping Organic has the extra-soft Talalay which may be what I needā¦
According to this post as well as what Iāve read elsewhere it appears that Sri Lanka only sources Dunlop processed latex. The Talalay process is more involved which results in its generally higher cost and it is produced in fewer facilities. Itās entirely possible that there have been changes in latex manufacturing facilities since that post, and Iām sure someone will correct me if itās no longer accurate.
I just heard back from them that they think their product would be too similar to the Zenhaven for me. It looks like they are semi-custom and donāt do toppers at all so they donāt have an option to make it softer. "
I donāt understand why FSMās product necessarily would be too similar to the Zenhaven. The Zenhaven comes in one fixed 10" design. Its upper comfort layer always is only 1.5" thick (unless you add a topper). All layers are Talalay. With the FSM product you can choose a 10" or 13" thickness. The comfort layers are 3" thick. For the upper layers, you can choose Dunlop or Talalay. You can choose different firmness levels for each layer. You can order split layers and you can move layers up and down in the stack. So an FSM product can be quite different in design from the Zenhaven.
I agree Cloud999, I was surprised and disappointed to receive that response from them as well. They also said their ILDs were similar so maybe there was only so much they felt they could do in this scenario. Or they may have looked at me as someone who was already returning a latex bed as a liability, someone they canāt adequately profit from if returns and swaps are needed. I understand minimizing risk from a business owner perspective.
I spoke with SleepEZ and they recommended building a shorter mattress with the plan of having the top layer be a free-floating topper, as this increases the feeling of softness and plushness. I am mulling over this idea. The proposed build was really similar to the Zenhaven, which isnāt working for me. Their selling point seems to be that you can ādial inā the bed with layer swaps, which I appreciate, but I also want to get the bed dialed before I buy it. I watched a tutorial on packing layer swaps and itās an impetus for a chronically ill, small person who lives alone.
I also wonder if I am pushing the latex thing too hard. I love the environmental and low-toxicity angles, I love how Talalay sounds in theory (and I donāt care for memory foam) and I did love my test run on the PTB bed, but ultimately I havenāt liked our local latex beds, I havenāt liked this Zenhavenā¦maybe I like the idea of latex more than the reality! Iām wondering if I should look into a hybrid or check out some alternative foams.
I spent the weekend looking at some other more āmainstreamā options, but my heart is still in latex for a multitude of reasons. So, continuing to experiment with what I have in order to take as much information possible to whomever builds the next bed! Some lessons learned:
My pillow does not fit my bed and I noticed when my head isnāt jacked up so high, my hip doesnāt feel like itās digging in as much.
When I cut the unstretchy back off my mattress topper (the free one from Zenhaven with the awkward glue seam) it made the topper feel a little better. Iāve still been using the top, a quilted thick material on top of that to protect the topper and act as a mattress pad of sorts. Today I was testing out the bed in different configurations (can I go without the topper? No.) and realized the topper feels SO much better without the quilting! It is stretchy, but not very, so I wonder if it was dampening some point elasticity.
I understand toppers need to be protected from body oils and oxidation, but since this one is defective (can only sleep on half of it) I figure I can use it for more experiments until I get a good one (which I will definitely be getting in a stretchy cover, now that I know more.)
I also realized that folding the topper horizontally and then rotating it 90% would give me an approximation of a 3" topper that I could probably actually sleep on, even though itās too short. So I will be giving my unquilted, doubled topper a spin tonight to see how that is for future purchases.
This all gave me an enhanced understanding of how very small variations can make a big difference to how a bed feels.
I do have a feeling a light-ILD topper will be in my future, and Iām glad I read today that they arenāt expected to last more than a year (!). This explains why so few manufacturs have them, and why I would want to get my light layer as a topper and not an integral part of the bed. Unfortunately, the Zenhavenās top IS built-in at 14-19 ILD. Eek.
(Iām also considering just going bold and asking Zenhaven if theyād replace the defective topper with a thicker one short of returning the bed. A last hail mary before I give up and we all lose money on the interaction. I donāt even know if this is something they have access to. And it wouldnāt solve the issue of the low ILD built into the top layer or just the fact that Iām topping a 10" mattress that doesnāt work great for me on its own, butā¦itās a thought.)
Anyway. This mattress stuff is hard! Especially for obsessive āmaximizersā like myselfā¦my spreadsheetās getting long and involved. Hoping Iām starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
I didnāt even make it an hour on the folded topperā¦3" of super light ILD just feltā¦silly. I thought Iād feel like a rich person in all that ploof! Nope. Just started to get some hip spasming and felt a little like I was suffocating. It was a pain to move around. I kinda felt like I was sleeping in a pile of laundry.
Also, maybe latex is temperature neutral but this definitely made the bed a lot warmer. Makes sense, thereās less airflow around parts that usually have more.
So instead I just tested out the topper without the coverā¦it certainly makes the contour much more specific. This also makes the bed sleep warmer. I actually didnāt like it as much as I thought I would, at least not at first. I think part of the reason we need adjustment periods is just the habits of sleep, feeling something specific we associate with sleepā¦any change just messes it up!
I also trialed some old pillows that have less loft and this seemed to put me in a better position. I still feel more pressure under my shoulder than I want, but interesting how these minor adjustments can make a big difference on the feel of the bed. It also makes me feel tired in advance thinking of dialing in something newā¦I wonder how good it can really get, when I already have chronic pain.
latex mattress topper is really good for sleeping. I think another disadvantage of the latex smell should be considered as not all people like this smell.
TMUās experience (and that of its extensive consumer members) with latex products (mattresses, toppers, and pillows) is that the on the occasions where there is a remnant odor from the latex production process, it will dissipate over time.
There is more about the smell of latex in post #2 here but in most cases, it is reduced to levels below what people will notice in a few days to a few weeks but this can also depend on how acute your sense of smell is and on how sensitive you are to a particular smell. There can also be some differences between different batches of Talalay. There is also more about the odor of new materials in post #3 here that may be helpful.
NOTE Added: I have noticed a second promotional post which I have deleted and removed promo link from the post above.
hi, just wondering if you ever found a good latex mattress. i have fibro and had to return a latex mattress because it was much too firm. hoping latex can be soft enough to sleep on without pain.
Hi, I have something similar to fibro. I researched here, then bought an organic Talalay latex queen mattress from SleepEZ (about 2 yrs ago). I LOVE it. It has three layers that are split down the middle (6 pieces; so each sideās layers can be arranged differently). Layers are dense base, medium middle, and soft top (what the SleepEZ rep advised). If you prefer softer, you can switch out one of the firmer layers within 30 days, I believe, or choose softer layers to start. Mine has a cotton/wool organic cover/casing. I make four adjustments for pain: (1) use a firmer neck roll under a very soft polyfoam pillow (the kidney bean shaped type that has a well in the middle) to support the neckās s-curve with min. pressure against skin, (2) put a soft pillow under my knees (or between if side sleeping), and (3) put an additional mattress pad over the one that comes with the mattress (makes it softer and cooler, and prevents itchingāif youāre super sensitive to wool, like me), and (4) use cotton sheets and a cotton blanket for max breathability as latex can feel warm (non-bulky synthetic blankets are fine over that as needed). I hope this is helpful!
Thanks JZJ! Your post is very helpful and a great example of how consumer members can assist others by sharing their methods of achieving success in the quest for a great nightās sleep.
No, but I did start to like my mattress a lot better after adding a second topper. Itās still not perfect or dialed, and I donāt love it because thereās a bit of pressure under my shoulder, but I am sleeping pretty dang well in spite of that. Iāve been on the phone with SleepEZ about potentially ordering something else, but am wary of getting into a merry-go-round of layer swaps when Iām already sleeping fine, which is the entire point of the mattress anyway. Weāll see!
I will add, I do wish I had started with something customizable like SleepEZ. I need to send the ZH back in a month if decide against it, but thatās not much overlap time. I donāt want to give up something Iām sleeping well on to get something that might feel comfier but then give me low back pain or somethingā¦Iām pretty sure once you send a bed back (especially when the company wound up sending you two due to warranty issues) they ban you from buying it againā¦
Itās doubtful that any company will publish a policy that cites it will ban a customer, but it is practical for you to assume that multiple returns for full refunds will get you placed on some sort of list. The cost of returns/refunds is a major expense for all mattress companies, both online only and traditional retail. The mattresses are either donated or disposed of, and in either case, itās a serious financial loss to the mattress company. With shipping costs and removal costs added in, a mattress return for a refund can be 50-60% of the mattress sales price.
Thanks, Admin, yes, Iām sure itās a major cost! To clarify, I have not asked for multiple refundsā¦the first mattress had a number of QC issues and when I called to return, I wound up accepting a replacement mattress with another trial period. I am indeed considering returning this oneā¦currently trying to figure out how to start a new post in the forum to discuss!