Itâs great that you were able to find a combination that you love!
General questions, Does it matter which side of the latex foam is facing up? I usually see the smooth side up not the rough side. If I see a large air bubble hole on side of a piece of latex foam, should I be concerned?
Talalay latex tends to be quite consistent top to bottom, so if you had a layer slit from the top or bottom of the core it wouldnât tend to feel too different, regardless of orientation. With some Dunlop latex, you can get some settling of the latex particles toward the bottom of the mold, and sometimes pieces slit from the bottom of the core can feel a little firmer than pieces from the top. There would be the potential for more of a difference between layers from the top of a Dunlop core to those take from the bottom of a Dunlop core, but this tends to be small and may not be noticeable to most people, especially if placed in the deeper layers of a mattress. The smoother layer (skin)will usually represent the bottom of a Dunlop mold, so this can represent a bit of a firmer level of that piece of foam. If youâre unsure, you can press into the piece of foam from the side near the top and bottom of the piece of foam and see if you notice a difference in the softness. This is less noticeable in 2" layers than a 6" core. Larger bubbles and small voids are normal in latex foam when it is slit from a core and usually not a cause for concern unless they are large enough to create a large void, which would be uncommon.
What do you consider large? The width of a thumb and depth up to knuckle? So smooth or rough on a 2" piece of latex makes no difference?
Night 9 on the Zenhaven, and Iâve now been suffering a pinched neck nerve for the past 8 daysâŚit is excruciating. My shoulder feels jammed under my ear unless I use two pillows, which creates a different problemâŚitâs like I just donât sink in. And this is with a $20 Target topper and a duvet under the sheet to get some semblance of not-concrete. 2 more nights until the topper from the manufacturer arrives.
If I like it okay with the topper, it sure seems like an expensive, well, topper platform. Currently toughing this out, but I missed a fair bit of work last week and will miss more next week if this pain continues. Eyeballing the Tomorrow Sleep, Casper Wave and Purple as possible next steps. I donât love memory foam and I donât love the idea of bringing a ton of plastic and foam into my home, but I also donât love spending two grand a bed that is now keeping me from making money at work. These three appear to be rated highly for side sleepers, spinal alignment, and pressure relief. (Yes, I have looked at the shopping tutorial but Iâm not sure how to apply it without being able to test every bed, or with the usual customer service staff not being that well informed, so gotta look at some subjective ratings, I guess.)
The good news is that there is no low back pain. And customer support was responsive (although I feel that they could have guided me better when I reached out with a pretty clear idea of what I needed.) However, none of this is worth a pinched nerve. Granted, I have chronic pain. But itâs not usually THIS bad!
Hi Phoenix,
I ended up doing a layer exchange and got a firm dunlop layer. I experimented with some different configurations and found that FD, MD, ST, topper seemed to provide the best support, but did not provide enough pressure relief. However, if I remove the ST from the mattress cover and put it outside with the topper, it was excellent and felt like I was sleeping on a cloud, which is the feeling I am trying to achieve. However, my hips are still sinking in a little too far so Iâm still having some back pain (although definitely not as much as before).
I found a company that I could order some tensioner slats from, but when I talked to them, they said I would probably not be able to feel the difference with a 10" mattress and 2" topper. So I donât think that will help my hips.
I guess at this point I need to consider a zoned layer? I am allowed one more layer exchange with Sleeping Organic, however I donât think they do zoned layers. I suppose I could exchange for another firmer layer, which would bring my hips up more, but I donât see any scenario where only my hips would come up and not my shoulder too, which would still leave me in the same situation of my hips being too far below my shoulder.
I looked at some of the links you attached and saw your suggestions about using a piece of firm polyfoam under the hips. I think this would be worth trying. Should the polyfoam go under the bottom layer of the mattress or under one of the middle layers?
If I end up wanting to do a zoned mattress, would I need to return my current mattress and buy a new one from Flo-beds, or could I just purchase one zoned layer from Flo-beds to add to my current mattress?
So, I got my topper today from Zenhaven. There was a hard seam running vertically along one third of the bed, right where youâd actually sleep.
So figuring I have literally nothing to lose at this point besides the last of my patience, I made a tiny hole in the cover and looked to see what was up. They had basically glued two latex remnants together, a twin and a skinny piece. The glue was hard, irregular, and not comfy to lay on.
Their CS guy is nice, but I am at my witsâ end with these guys. Mattress comfort is subjective but you know whatâs not? Production values. I have a topper (granted, it was free) thatâs two bits glued together, and a queen mattress that doesnât seem properly sized for the box spring IT CAME WITH. Measuring. Not that hard, people.
I donât have much to compare it to, but so far, this is not a $2,000-worthy experience. Iâve emailed them and asked if they just throw the beds in the landfill or donate them if you return them. Iâd be interested to see what a supposedly âgreenâ company does with returns. The thought of buying this bed for semi-ethical motivations (I guess I also selfishly want sleep?) only to toss it as waste is sickening.
And I have to addâŚtheir CS guy told me on the phone it was a $500-600 dollar topper, so I was expecting something pretty big. Itâs about a 1" topper, guys. This appears to retail for about $200 without the cover, so throw in a little extra for that, but I have to roll my eyes on that one, Zenhaven. Even if it didnât have the glue seam.
And a further update from the company as they called todayâthey said the latex was glued together because itâs only made in 62" width sheetsâŚbut my bed IS about 56"âŚthey thought they were talking to king customer, not a queen. After revealing that, they did not offer to send a properly made topper.
When I said the topper only made it comfortable for one person with the seam, they asked if I had two people in the bed. Iâm currently single so laughed and said no, but hope to in the next 10 years of mattress life! But jeez, a queen should accommodate a queenâs worth of sleeping.
They then revealed the topper is just a temporary fix while the bed breaks in. Huh. Iâm curious how all this jibes with âbest practicesâ in the industry. Cheers dears.
1 Like
Hi oad8730.
Glad to hear that you are sleeping better and it looks like you still have a few options to get the best of all worlds.
Nice âout of the box/encasementâ solution you found out there. 
All the layers in a mattress interact together and sometimes even seemingly small changes like placing the top layer outside the encasement can change the feel and performance of a mattress quite significantly. The encasement especially when new, will tighten everything up and the mattress will feel firmer than it will feel after some time of use, but the most adjustment youâd tend to notice will come from the fabric covering your mattress and of course that any topper or fitted sheet will also contribute to the overall feel.
You are correct, Sleeping Organic does not have any zoned latex at this time.
Closer to the skin the polyfoam layer is placed the more it will be felt and you can experiment with how each of them feels to you. If you feel that your hips are sinking in too deeply, then bring the polyfoam layer a little closer to the top. If it turns out that this is a deeper alignment issue, than you can place the poly closer to support core.
FlowBeds is one of our âZoningâ Expert memberand have a great deal of experience and customer input in this area. I am not sure if they would consider sending you an individualized zoned layer but I suggest that you reach out to them and ask for their advice. They are really happy when they can share what they learned.
Phoenix
I liked the Savvy rest mattress in the following configuration: Soft Talalay on top, Medium Talalay in the middle and Firm Talalay in the bottom. What do you recommend? Thank you
Hi needalatex.
Welcome to our Mattress Forum!
Attempting to find something that is exactly the same may end up being a frustrating especially if you are trying to do this on your own. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can âmatchâ or âapproximateâ another one. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress âas a wholeâ so you would need to carefully asses the design and the specs of each mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials (Talalay in this case) in order to determine if that the mattress in its entirety will be a good âmatchâ for you in terms of âcomfortâ, firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) This is especially important when you are trying to approximate the mattress you are considering with others that use the same type of materials and components which may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on.
A good way to best approximate the feel you are looking for would be a detailed conversation with a good online manufacturer or retailer that can use another major brand mattress as a reference point and give you good information based on their knowledge and experience about the relative softness/firmness and support/alignment and comfort/pressure relief of their mattresses compared to the mattress they use as a reference.
Most of our Trusted Members of this site offer latex options in one form or another. At a quick glance, here are some site members who carry Talalay mattresses ( some also offer a combination of Talalay and Dunlop). I suggest that you visit each of their websites for more details of their all latex, latex combos, and call each of them and discuss your options of best approximating what you are looking for.
[indent] FloBeds(Only Talalay)
FoamSweetFoam
Sleep EZ Factory
Arizona Pr Mattress Comp
FoamSweetFoam[/indent]
Good luck with the matching!
Phoenix
Thank you.
Hi needalatex.
You are welcome! ⌠and keep us posted.
Phoenix
Hi - I have been trying to determine whether it is better to avoid pocket coils. Can they emit fumes, attract dust mites, result in mattress changing firmess/shape over time?
Are there any reliable reviews on Cocomat?
They have coconut hair, horse hair and seaweed in their cores well as Dunlop latex.
Hi Lborducci.
Welcome to our Mattress Forum!
I would personally not have any concerns with fumes or dust mites originating from a pocket coil. As far as VOCs or odor, the non-woven fabric used to âpocketâ the coils is innocuous this is not something that people complain about. While certain products may be dust mite resistant if the food source and environment are appropriate you can get dust mites in any style of mattress. The key would be keeping their main food source (skin cells) to a minimum, and keeping the environment low in humidity (Dust mite population prefers a warm, moist environment that they need to survive)
As far as pocket coils changing firmness/shape over time⌠all items fatigue over time and a pocket spring unit would not be an exception. Generally, the spring units would not be the weak link within the mattress and you would notice changes much more in the foams in the upper layers because of the mechanical stress they undergo and because in time, with aging, they will gradually lose resiliency and develop impressions. Innersprings tend to hold their shape well (poor quality steel would lead to changes much more than a higher quality steel). Usually firmer latex will be more durable than an innerspring but neither of them would tend to be the weak link of a mattress.
While reviews or other peopleâs experiences can be useful to gauge the reputation of a business, they wonât tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or âvalueâ of a mattress as it relates to you (see post #13 here), and I recommend to take them with a grain of salt and to avoid considering them as any sort of a reliable indicator of the appropriateness of any particular product for your needs.
CocoMat mattress components (Dunlop latex, rubberized coir, rubberized horsehair (expensive), seaweed, essential oils, cactus fiber and others) are high quality materials and would meet the quality/durability guidelines. The company focuses on natural premium materials and unusual products and designs. Depending on your personal value equation you would be looking at a much higher price point (we are talking 10K) and firmer overall feel, although they have two firmness choices for some mattresses. Some people like the feel of it while others donât so it is of course again a matter of preference and your personal value equation. While Coco-mats are not commonly found domestically they recently opened a showroom - Coco-Mat USA in New York, and the mattresses themselves have been around for quite some time.
I hope this helps.
Phoenix
Still have the Zenhaven, now at 45 days. Itâs a meh. I sleep fine enough and I donât wake up with pain that I associate with the bed (with chronic pain, hard to tell) but itâs not comfortable. Itâs just too much pressure under my hip and shoulder and not enough support under my waist. Itâs not terrible, but itâs not âmyâ bed, and doesnât feel worth the almost 2k price tag.
Hi sweetandsourkiwi,
It sounds like itâs time to return it (since itâs after the 30 day trial period), and look at other softer mattresses! If you like the benefit of Latex being all natural and chemical free then take a look at the Trusted Members for Mattress Underground (found here: Latex & All Latex :: The Mattress Underground). They have knowledgeable experts who can work through your comfort issues with you if you just give them a call. Some of them can get you a new comfortable mattress within the week! Looking at your weight, it seems like you need a much softer ILD than the Zenhaven-- so ask about softer latex comfort layers. Another plus is that many of these Trusted Member companies have mattresses that will suit you for much less money than the Zenhaven.
Hope this helps, as Iâm sure this is a miserable experience. Let an expert try and help you!
âItâs just too much pressure under my hip and shoulder and not enough support under my waist. Itâs not terrible, but itâs not âmyâ bed, and doesnât feel worth the almost 2k price tag.â
Thatâs a good description of what Iâm experiencing with the âFirmâ side of the Zenhaven, when Iâm on my side. When Iâm on my back or stomach, it feels better than that to me. Iâm still in the trial window and am waiting for a topper. I think the issue may be that the 1.5" âcomfortâ layer just isnât thick enough for a ~200 lb. sleeper like me. My hips/shoulders seem to be bottoming out into the firm âsupportâ layer.