We had our first sleep on it last night and it was fantastic.
Iâm considering purchasing the Bentley model mattress at the Foam Guy in Nanaimo (live in Victoria) and wondered after 10 months time how yours is holding up for you? Iâve had issues with foam mattresses losing support in the middle section after as little as 6 months (probably due to low quality foam) and would like to purchase a mattress that will offer years of support.
Iâd really be interested in knowing if your mattress is still as comfortable as day one.
Thanks,
Kim
Yes, itâs awesome. Johnâs been at this a long time and carries quality products. I recommend trying them out in the store to get a good feel of what the different models are like.
Good to hear, thanks very much!
Kim
HiâŚI have been reading your mattress forums for days and I have to say that this site seems to be the best and most comprehensive when it comes to shopping for a mattress. Props to Phoenix!..
My wife and I went in search of a king size latex mattress today. We visited Johnâs Bedroom Barn, The Foam Guy, and West Coast Foam & MattressâŚWe both seemed to like the Pacific Oasis Natural at Johnâs Bedroom Barn the best of all. It has a 6" natural dunlop base with a 3" natural dunlop topper. My wife is 5â 2" and 180 lbs. and I am 5â 8" and 195 lbs. The âMediumâ base with the âSoftâ topper seemed to feel best for both of us. From what I have read in this and other forums on this site, most of the references are to ILD. Would a medium be similar to an ILD of 32 in this case and would it offer enough support to go along with the comfort? I imagine that we could have both sides split in case we had to change out one of the layers on the bottom, or is it better not to have a seam?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Hi Brick,
ILDâs specs are not very meaningful when you are testing a mattress in person because each person can have a very different needs and a much different sense of what is soft, medium, or firm based on their body types, sleeping positions, and sensitivity. Your body and careful testing will tell you much more than ILD when it comes to deciding on which mattress best meets your needs and preferences than any ILD specs.
Some guidelines for testing for pressure relief are in this article and for support and alignment are in this article and in post #11 here.
The specs that are important when you are looking at local mattresses are âquality specsâ and âvalue secsâ which are the thickness of each layer and the type and quality of the materials (rather than their firmness or softness). In the case of the mattress you are looking at ⌠Dunlop latex is a high quality material and the overall value of the mattress would depend on the cost of similar mattresses (with 9" of the same type of latex and similar ticking/quilting) compared to the one you are looking at.
A âmediumâ Dunlop base with a 3" soft Dunlop topper would be a very popular choice for people of your height and weight who liked the feel of Dunlop in all the layers of their mattress.
Dunlop latex (or any latex for that matter) doesnât come in exact ILDâs and there is a range of ILDâs across the surface of the layer. You can read more about ILDâs in post #6 here.
As a reference (and bearing in mind that the layer you are trying wonât be exactly this) ⌠28 is usually considered to be medium and 32 would be medium firm (and some would call this medium as well) but each person would have their own rating and idea of how it feels to them.
Support is really about how well a mattress keeps your spine and joints in a neutral alignment and if you are in good alignment on a mattress in all your sleeping positions then for you the mattress has good support (even though for someone else it may not). Dunlop latex that was âin the rangeâ of 32 ILD would be suitable for many people as a support layer but it would also depend on other factors such as the thickness, firmness, and type of materials that were on top of it. Your own testing results are always more important than any âtheory at a distanceâ when it comes to how well a mattress works for you.
I think this can be a very good option if itâs necessary (and again theory is not as important as your own personal results when it comes to deciding if it is necessary). Sometimes it can even be surprising that a mattress that is layered the same on both sides can be suitable for two very different people (see post #2 here). Some of the pros and cons of split layering are in post #2 here.
With a split layer mattress ⌠I would make sure that the sides werenât glued together (at least until you knew for certain that it was what you wanted) or you would lose the benefit of being able to change one half or the other. Itâs not likely that you would feel a seam if there was a layer of latex on top or even if the mattress used a quilted cover without a solid layer over a split (although you would feel the difference on each side of course which is the reason for the split).
Hope this helps.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks so much for your reply. If I remember correctly, the mattresses were graded D85, D95, etc.
After I had an idea what a medium was in ILD, ie. 28, I find it confusing what a D85 would be in comparison. I think he said there is a variance of +/- 5 and the mattresses come from Arpico: http://nf.arpicorubber.com/product_portfolio/latex_mattresses.html
My concern is that if we order the medium base (as comfy as it felt) with the soft comfort layer, would it give us enough support for our body sizes? If we order the firm base, it may not be comfortable, particularly with Dunlop being a bit firmer. I guess we could order it in medium base and if it doesnât work out for one or both of us, deal with splitting it on the exchange that we are allowed. I am really hoping to get it right the first time.
Brick
Hi Brick,
D85, D95 etc is the density expressed in kilograms per square meter (kg/m3) which is the most common Dunlop specification.
Post #4 here can give you some idea about how this may translate into ILD but this would not be exact because of all the reasons I mentioned in the link I posted previously.
Arpico is a Sri Lankan Dunlop manufacturer which makes good quality latex.
Typically yes (assuming we are talking about D85) ⌠but of course this is impossible to know for certain for any specific person without them lying on the mattress and the D85 itself would itself not be a specific ILD. It would also have a firm side and a softer side (Dunlop latex settles in manufacturing and is firmer on the bottom of a core) which can make a slight difference.
A D95 would be very firm for most people and would typically need a thicker comfort layer than a D85 would to get to the same level of comfort and pressure relief but again body type and weight distribution and sensitivity to pressure would still be a variable (not just weight) and each person can be very different even if their body weight is the same.
Being allowed an exchange would certainly take some of the âworryâ out of the picture.
Phoenix
Thanks again for your help.
I called and talked to John, the owner, and he advised me to order the firm based on his experience and our body weights.
So, we ordered the firm with a soft top, along with 2 soft/plush latex pillows.
He hopes to get it in quick within a week, two at the most, so Iâll be sure to post once weâve slept on it for a couple weeks.
Hi Brick,
Congratulations on your new mattress 
Firmer is always a âsaferâ choice than softer both because you have an exchange if necessary but also because itâs easier to make a firmer mattress softer than the other way around.
I think you made a good choice and Iâm looking forward to your feedback once youâve received it and had the chance to sleep on it for a while.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Well, we have had our new mattress for 2 weeks now and I have been having problems. Our mattress has a 3" âExtra Softâ Dunlop latex topper with a 6" âFirmâ Dunlop base. I have been experiencing back spasms and neck discomfort. Intially, I feel comfortable and go to sleep quite well but when I awaken, I have spasm and my spinal column seems quite sore. My wife has been mostly okay. She is away right now on a trip so I tried her side of the bed with less back spasm but still with a sore neck, not sure why her side seems to have a little more support, but I canât find any tag on the base to see if it is indeed firm. I wonder if it is some sort of split? Tonight, I am going to remove the topper and sleep on just the base. We are entitled to one exchange so I am hoping to figure out what is wrong. Would you happen to have any ideas/insight?
Brick
Hi Brick,
I donât really have enough information about the specific details of your mattress or of the âsymptomsâ you are experiencing or your sleeping positions and style to offer any meaningful or specific comments about what may help. I can certainly help with the quality and value of a mattress but this is very different from itâs suitability in terms of design and layering for any particular person which is best tested on a local level or with more detailed conversations with the manufacturer who would be much more familiar with the specifics of their materials and how they may interact with different body types and sleeping styles ad the types of changes they can make than I am.
Having said that ⌠I may be able to offer some more generic suggestions that may be helpful.
The first step in doing any fine tuning of a mattress is to identify in as specific terms as possible the type of symptoms you are experiencing, the part of the body they are happening, and the sleeping positions you normally sleep in and which ones seem to be connected to the symptoms you are experiencing. The goal is to identify whether the symptoms are connected to pressure issues (which is related to the thickness and softness of the comfort layers), to primary support which âstopsâ the heavier areas of the body from sinking down too far (which is connected to the firmness of the deeper support layers) or to secondary support which fills in the gaps in the sleeping profile and helps to maintain the natural alignment of the recessed parts of the spine (and which is also connected to the thickness and softness of the comfort layers).
It can also help to know what type of mattress you are used to sleeping on because in some cases 2 weeks may not be enough time to adjust to a new sleeping surface if your new mattress is significantly different from what you are used to even if the comfort and alignment is better than what you had before (see post #7 here about learned alignment and natural alignment).
I should also mention that upper body and neck issues are often connected to the type of pillow you are using because this is an important part of your sleeping system and keeping your upper body in neutral alignment and a new sleeping surface may need a new pillow because the âgapâ between your head and neck and the mattress may have changed. It would be very helpful to know whether your symptoms are lower back related or mid or upper back related.
If I had to make a guess right of the top of my head (which is usually not a great idea) ⌠given your feedback and preference for a medium base layer when you were testing mattresses ⌠it may be a little on the firm side for you either in the comfort layers (I donât know what they are calling super soft) or in the support layers. If you do decide to test the mattress without the topper ⌠I would pay particular attention to whether the symptoms get any worse or better over the course of a few days (all changes should be tested for at least a few days) because this could provide some helpful feedback.
It would also be a good idea to eliminate the possibility that this has anything to do with the support system or foundation under the mattress or the mattress protector or any other bedding that is on the mattress. Can you tell me what the mattress is sitting on and the type of mattress protector you are using?
So first of all ⌠I would talk with John and have a more detailed conversation that may help pinpoint what is happening and so that he can also be involved in the process of any changes you make and the results they produce. I would also try to determine based on a more specific description of your symptoms whether you are experiencing pressure issues or primary or secondary support issues and which sleeping positions seem to make them worse or better. Finally I would try the mattress without the topper for a few days and see what specific changes you notice (any changes whether positive or negative can be helpful as a pointer).
One step at a time and the most accurate possible feedback can help identify the cause and in turn point to which layer many need to change and in which direction to move closer to your ideal.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Our mattress and topper is Natural Latex using the Dunlop process. (Arpico) Our extra soft 3" topper should be around a D75 (+ or -5) and our firm 6" base would be around D85 -D95 (+ or -5) (not sure if its firm or x firm). When I slept on both, I would wake up on my back with lumbar pain and a general thorax ache. I lay on my side to go to sleep but usually end up on my back. I would have to get up earlier than usual because of a sore back. Once I get up, the pain gradually goes away in the morning. I was used to sleeping on a Kingsdown Beethoven plush mattress if that helps. As for the pillow, it is a new soft/plush Novopure Natural Tallalay Latex model, for stomach and back sleepers. I also have a Sleep Country all sleeper tallalay latex pillow and a Dunlop neck pillow that didnât seem to work for me before. I did sleep on the mattress without the topper last night and I woke up with mid-thoracic back pain that felt like a knot and was worse than with the topper. I donât think it is worth doing that again as the pain was quite bad. The mattress also felt quite hard compared to sinking down to it through the topper. As for the support system, we have a wood platform bed with wooden board slats spaced 2 1/4" apart and also reinforced in the middle. Our mattresses have the proper support under them. We are using a two mattress protectors: 1. Protect-A-Bedâs Premium Mattress Protector
Protect-A-Bedâs Premium Mattress Protector provides a barrier to allergens and dust mites and keeps a mattress sanitary and protected from spills and accidents. The product has an absorbent cotton terry surface that is cool and comfortable to sleep on. The product also features the innovative Miracle MembraneÂŽ that provides a 2-way barrier for the mattress and the user to protect against allergens, dust mites and accidents. It has a fitted sheet style skirt that will stretch to fit mattresses without shifting. It doesnât alter the feel of the mattress and can be easily removed for washing as simply as sheets. 2. Sealy mattress pad, 300TC cotton w/light padding (this is because my wife doesnât like the feel of terry under her and I need the hypoallergenic protection for my asthma. We also use 400TC cotton sateen sheets.
I will be talking to John soon but I am attempting to give a proper trial to what we have. I did talk to Johnâs son when he delivered a medium âInfinityâ mattress (manufactured utilizing a luxurious quilted cover encompassing a high-density foam core with peripheral cooling convoluted foam. This 9" thick mattress will provide excellent quality and comfort.) a week ago, for the wall bed in our spare bedroom. He thought that I might need an even firmer latex mattress but said to talk to John when he gets back from holidays next week. I am going to sleep on the wall bed mattress tonight to see what medium does for me even though it is not the same as the latex. Tomorrow I will go back to the latex mattress and topper and stick with it until I talk to John.
Maybe you can offer some insight now that I have provided some answers to your questions. You seem to be the most knowledgeable person that I have communicated with about mattresses. Your feedback is much appreciated.
Hi Brick,
The first step is to find out exactly what you have. It can make a difference.
Lower Lumbar pain usally indicates a mattress where you are either sinking in too far or not enough. Both ways can led to misalignment in the lumbar area along the lines of this diagram. The key is to know which. Sleeping on the mattress without the topper would be firmer and this may provide a clue. Again my suspicion is that it is firmer than you do best with.
This also points to being used to a mattress that is much softer than the one you have and may also point to your current mattress being too firm.
This may be too thin for a back side sleeper ⌠exspecially when your current mattress is firmer than you are used t which means that the gap between your head and neck and the mattress would be larger than on your previous mattress.
This also seems to point in the same direction where your mattress is too firm and even firmer yet makes it worse.
Your foundation seems to be fine.
Your protect-A-Bd protector wouldnât affect things either.
The Sealy mattress pad is padded and would make the mattress firmer and could easily make things worse. Thick cotton padding or polyester padding (which I believe this one has) will reduce the amount you are sinking in to the latex and could easily contribute to the problem you are having. I would remove this and replace it with either a stretch cotton mattress protector (which isnât waterproof but will absorb normal body oils and fluids over the course of the night) or for the sake of your testing using only the one protector for the time being. The goal is to have as little interference with the compression of the latex as possible so it can form the best possible pressure relieving cradle ⌠especially if your mattress is already on the firm side.
The sheets wouldnât be an issue unless they are so tight they are creating a drumlike effect and again interfering with the compression of the latex but this isnât likely.
I would talk with him as soon as possible so that you can gain any insights he may have(which may be more valuable than anything my speculation can identify).
I would sleep on the wallbed for more than just one night so the feedback and any changes are more of a pattern athan an instance.
I also didnât ask you about what type of cover and quilting is used in both your mattress cover and the topper because this could also make a difference.
Based on clarifying and confirming the actual materials in your mattress and the specifics of your cover and quilting (if any) materials ⌠it seems to me that most of the signs are pointing to a either a softer comfort layer, a softer support core ⌠or both. Possible a thicker pillow as well but i would wait with this until the mattress issues are solved because sinking in a little deeper (which is probably the goal here) would make a difference with this as well.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I did talk to John and he told me to take the protect-a-bed cover off and put the Sealy one back on. He said that he has heard that heat build up from that type of cover can cause pain between the shoulders? Anyway, I did try what you said first by removing the Sealy one for one night and I could feel the mattress better, but still woke with back pain. Then we tried the Sealy one instead and it felt a bit bumpy, also with back pain. Now, we are back to the protect-a-bed one and I still get thoracic back pain just below shoulders, with spasm, on awakening. Our bed is a little warm as we also have a down duvet on it. I am going to reduce the temperature a little more tonight and see if that helps. Then we may try the 2 covers together again, it that doesnât help. Then, I guess, we are running out of options.
John says that he either gets firm or medium, doesnât get into x-firm, etc., for the base. I tried to get him to be more specific as to what the mattress actually is but firm or medium is all I get, for the base, and soft for the top. He says that our mattress has a firm base with a soft top which is usually the best for most people. Having said that, the 3" top says x-soft on the tag and there is no tag on the base. He says to try it for another week or two and if it is still uncomfortable, I could change for a split medium on one side and firm on the other, base, but he says they only do the one exchange. I told him that it is difficult because there is no tag on our base and we never got any actual paperwork stating what it is that we bought as we ordered it over the phone. He said that he will mail out the paperwork but that it is a firm base with a soft top.
We have a bamboo cover with zipper on our topper and it has a nonslip fabric on the bottom of it.
Our base is encased in a bamboo cover with no zipper or nonslip fabric.
(Both mattresses are natural dunlop latex as far as I know.)
I hope this information helps and would appreciate any further advice that you might give before using up our one exchange.
Best regards,
Brick
Hi Brick,
I would probably suggest that any change you make that you try for a few nights instead of just one so you have a better idea of what it is doing. A single night can always be an anomaly.
This is probably the norm because Dunlop doesnât have a single specific ILD and this would be more generally descriptive to people than a density or ILD number (which really doesnât mean a lot to most people).
I would tend to believe him because he would have no reason to tell you something that wasnât accurate.
His advice to wait another week or two (and I would add to test each change for longer) is good IMO.
I would hold off on a decision about what to do in a couple of weeks and test each change for a little longer.
I would also try to turn the main mattress upside down because Dunlop can have a softer side and a firmer side and this may make a difference as well.
Taking a little longer and carefully monitoring the direction of any change in symptoms with each change you make will increase the odds of making a better decision when the time comes to decide what to do next.
My âgutâ and the pointers still seem to say that you may do better with the medium but one step at a time is the best way to go.
You also have the option of adding fairly thin and less resilient topper which may also help the muscles to relax but this too is not something I would consider for the time being.
Phoenix
Thanks, Phoenix, I will follow this advice.
My wife would like me to ask you if there is any particular type of bedding, mattress protector, etc. that is best for use with this type of mattress. I have already mentioned in previous posts in this thread what we have but maybe we should use something different, ie. lighter down blanket inside of duvet cover instead of down duvet. I think our sheets are pretty good. As for mattress protector, John thinks Protect-A-Bed could be too warm. (Hard to tell as we have a down duvet)
I found the Sealy padded type of mattress pad to be a bit bumpy. I have seen silk sets that include mattress protector, pillow covers, and duvet but they are quite expensive and I wonder if they are worth it?
Do you have any recommendations?
Brick
Hi Brick,
The choice of mattress protector is really a matter of preference and which of the different types offers the performance and qualities that are most important to you. Post #89 here has a description of some of the different types and the tradeoffs between their effect on the mattress, their effect on sleeping temperature,and the degree or water resistance that are involved. If sleeping temperature is the biggest issue ⌠then a more breathable topper may be beter than the thinner types that have a âsemi breathableâ membrane that in some cases can raise sleeping temperature (see post #2 here for all the different factors that can affect sleeping temperature).
If you are choosing something thicker than a mattress protector (such as a mattress pad or topper) then personal preference as well as the specific type of âfine tuningâ you are looking for would be the way to decide between them.
The choice of blankets and bedding that is over you is strictly a matter of temperature regulation and the type and thickness of material you are most comfortable with. Because they are over the body ⌠they wonât affect the âfeelâ of the mattress (except to a degree with memory foam which is temperature sensitive) and would be more of a matter of how warm or cold you want to be, humidity control, the room conditions, your comfort level with natural vs synthetic materials, the weight of the blankets (some like heavier and some like lighter) and other personal preferences.
A mattress pad or a topper is more about fine tuning the feel and performance of a mattress and would really only be necessary if you wanted to fine tune the mattress in some way or wanted to change the âsurface feelâ of the mattress. Post #10 here talks about some of the options for mattress pads.
I would tend to use a thinner protector rather than a thicker mattress pad or topper unless you were clear that you wanted to fine tune the mattress in a specific way. I wouldnât introduce a second variable until you have made all your final choices with your mattress.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Your site sure has a lot of information on bedding as well. I think we will stay with the Protect-A-Bed for now. My wife finds our Kirkland Goose Down Duvet too hot so we are considering ordering a wool one. I think the silk type might be too cool. Any thoughts on this?
I flipped our base mattress over yesterday. Last night was better. I awoke with only slight back pain so we will stick with this for a few more nights and see what happens. My wife thought she may have a bit of back pain which makes sense as she slept on my side, only flipped over. The other idea that I have is to order a 3" tallalay topper from Costco. It is 85% natural and 15% synthetic latex and has an ILD of 28. We could try it as a topper on what we have or as a middle layer. It might give us a better idea of what to do when faced with our one switch. The other thing about it is if it works with what we have, we would keep it as it would give us more height. (Our bed seems quite low after going from a 15 or 17" mattress down to 9". ) If not, we can always return it but it may at least help diagnose our mattress problem. What do you think?
Brick
Hi Brick,
I am not as knowledgeable about bedding as some of the members of the forum that post here from time to time and specialize more in bedding but IMO silk is an amazing material that has both insulating properties and is highly breathable and durable as well. One of the things that is often forgotten about temperature regulation is the role that is played by humidity control. If you go outside on a hot day with high humidity it will feel much warmer than if you go outside on a day with the same temperature where the humidity is much lower. Natural fibers like silk and wool have the ability to control humidity and âregulateâ temperature in both directions. When I was a long distance cyclist I had a balaclava that was made of thin silk and I was amazed at itâs ability to keep my face warm with such a thin and light layer without overheating. Silk is a great material (and there are more resources for those that want to research it more in the links I provided earlier) but of course like all the many choices that are available itâs a matter of preference and tradeoff ⌠including the different cost of each different type of material. I even know people who like a silk balaclava as a way to keep their face warm and their bedroom cold.
I think this is a very good idea as well (if its necessary) and youâre fortunate that itâs available in Canada (they donât carry it in the US). Costcoâs return policy and reasonable price for a quality product makes it a low risk way to do some âfine tuningâ or âexperimentingâ and as you mentioned to give you a reference point that can help you get closer to your âidealâ construction.
Phoenix