Mattressless in New Orleans :(

[phoenix]

Hi nola,

I hope you can make heads or tails out of this.

I’ll certainly do my best!

On the pamper I felt supported…my back was straight but the pressure on my side was just a little too much.

Here’s the thing…if you remember I tried the Jamison Opulence too and felt there was a little too much pressure on my shoulders when on my side too…in fact based on my memory I would have said the Jamison was more firm on my side than the Pamper…?

OK … this is certainly strange. The pamper is 1" (not 2") of 19 ILD over a 6" 40 ILD core over a 1" 50 ILD stabilization layer with a stretch knit cover.

The Jamison is 4" of the same 19 ILD talalay over 6" of 40 ILD over 2" of base polyfoam (ILD unknown but likely firm) with a stretch knit cover.

These are certainly very different and for almost everyone 4" of 19 ILD would feel very different from 1" of 19 ILD if the layers below them were very similar (which they are). I can understand why this would be confusing and quite frankly it is for me as well.

These two are quite different so I would likely be looking at other reasons to explain why they both felt similar and especially why the Jamison felt so firm when it has such a thick layer of very soft latex.

My first thought is that somehow the mattress was mislabeled and that you may not have been on 4" of 19 ILD. Regardless of what the mattress was on … it seems very strange to me that this felt firm. Jamison also describes their cover as a stretch knit so this wouldn’t account for it either. With your weight and height … it’s also very unlikely that you were going through the 4" enough to significantly feel the firmness of the 40 ILD below it. It almost seems closer to the Brilliance. Did you happen to look at the law tag?

On the other hand … the Pamper would feel very firm to almost all people with only an inch to separate you from the firmness of the 40 ILD layer. I can see that this would not be comfortable on your side but even so … it seems that “a little too much” would be understating this for most people and it makes me wonder what base it was on. If it was on the sealy abzzorber base (more about that later) or another base that flexed … this may have made it softer than it would have been on a rigid base that didn’t flex. This is the only way I can explain that this was only a little bit too firm on your side.

Also…the Nature felt good when I was on my side but needed a little more support when on my back…so it almost seems like in between the Pamper/opulence and Nature would be ideal.

This too seems a little odd when compared to the Opulance because the nature has 2" of 19 ILD talalay over 1" of 28 ILD talaly over a 6" 36 ILD support core over the 1" 50 ILD stabilization base. This should also feel much firmer and more supportive than the Opulance. I’d be curious to know as well what foundation this was on when you tested it.

Since your experience on the Pamper and the Nature is consistent (the nature was softer) and also the Beautiful felt like you would expect it (too soft) … it really seems to point to the fact that the Opulence may not have been the Opulence. that’s the only thing that makes sense to me. If anything I would have expected this to be closer to the Beautiful. Your experience on the Opulance is such an anomaly that I probably wouldn’t include it as a meaningful part of your testing in terms of knowing what layers would be best.

The lady offered a “deal” of $1800 for the queen with a Sealy Foundation steel…she seemed a little confused when I asked about its construction so I didn’t go into it with her…do you think this foundation would work? Would this be in the fair price range?

Was this for the Nature? If it was it seems to me like a very good price for the set although I would not personally choose the abzzorber foundation for a latex mattress because it is a flexing foundation rather than a rigid foundation which is generally better for foam mattresses which are designed to absorb all the pressure without a flexing boxspring.

The one thing I thought was strange is the sales lady touted the 20 year warrantee but then explained if the mattress has ANY stain on it the warrantee is totally voided? after fifteen years there isn’t supposed to be one stain? How would a stain effect the quality of the whole mattress…I pointed to a stain on the mattress located by the mattress tag, looked like the ink from the tab rubbed off onto the mattress, I asked would this be considered a stain…yes…so the tag the mattress comes with causes stains??? Mattress companies make themselves look so bad…either give a warrantee or don’t. --ok I’ll get off my soap box.

I’m on this same soapbox all the time so I completely understand. Warranties are pretty much useless in the “real world” and only protect against manufacturing defects, not against “normal” wear and tear" such as foam softening. Besides the standard impression exclusion of all warranties (some are less and some are more), as you mentioned … stains are another exclusion which makes them pretty much worthless. Your best protection is knowing what is in your mattress and warranties have nothing to do with how long it takes for a mattress to wear out (which isn’t covered). They are selling tools and only protect against manufacturing defects … not the things that make most people want to return (or replace) a mattress. Even without the “stain” exclusion … any softening or change in a mattress that leads to the need to replace it usually doesn’t include an impression that is deep enough for a warranty claim. So now I’ll get of the same soap box and back to saying that the only meaningful “warranty” is knowing what is in your mattress

If I was going to go with an online dealer to make a bed fine tuned knowing these things what would you suggest? Layers and cover too since that seems to make a big difference.

Based on your testing … with the caveat that the bases you were using could make a real difference … I’d probably suggest that your best odds were with 3" of 22-24 ILD talalay over either 2 x 3" layers of firm and x-firm or a single 6" layer of firm or x-firm. It may be safer though to go with soft/medium/firm or soft/firm/x-firm to have the option to change some layers around to get as close as you can and then build in a layer exchange to get to your final configuration. I would definitely make sure you had a stretch knit cover and whether it was quilted with wool or not would depend on what you feel best about regarding a fire barrier (the wool quilting doesn’t need a separate fire barrier). The wool quilting would be slightly firmer than the stretch knit without the wool. Either way though … it should be stretchy and not a woven cover to get a similar feel to what you have been testing.

Hope this helps … in spite of the anomoly.

Phoenix

[nola]

Hi Phoenix

You know what…now that you say that about the bases…I think you are onto something!

My mom is also looking for a bed…she has bad arthritis and needs to get relief.

Anyway she came along too…I was surprised that she liked the Pamper mattress too…I would have put money on the fact that she liked softer mattresses especially now with her joint pain.

But get this…

When we went to the other store down the street to test the New Pure Latex Bliss gel beds they had 2 regular PLB ones…I wasn’t paying too much attention at this store because I had just did extensive testing at the other store on these beds and didn’t feel I needed to do more (obviously wrong)

Here’s the thing…She tested the two beds that were there and I asked her which she liked…she said this one…and pointed at the BEAUTIFUL! At the time we were both kind of confused because that was the one we BOTH knew right off the bat was not supportive enough at the other store…we barely even tested it at the other store it was so obviously wrong for us.

we both just wrote it off as being strange…I suggested she test them again when she brings my dad along (now I know not to go to the original store since the bases are wrong!)

I think you’re right, the foundations were flexing making the beds less supportive than they would normally be.

makes total sense.

Wow…you figured it out at a distance! the mattress whisper!

Now for the Jamison mystery…is that possible for me to go to two different bed stores and one mattress miss labeled and the other store have wrong foundations–totally altering the experience? Am I unlucky or is this common?

I’m going to go to another outlet to try out the Jamisons again…unfortunately the PLB is 45 minutes away…yuck.

wow…and I thought I was getting close!

Thank you so much Phoenix!

[phoenix]

Hi Nola,

Well it seems that at least one of the mysteries was solved

Now for the Jamison mystery…is that possible for me to go to two different bed stores and one mattress miss labeled and the other store have wrong foundations–totally altering the experience? Am I unlucky or is this common?

The foundation issue is probably more common and it’s always a good idea to check … especially with thinner foam (and especially latex foam which is more flexible) mattresses where the foundation can affect the feel of the mattress more. Most places would know enough to use the appropriate foundations but some don’t. The clue was when she offered to sell you the PLB with a Sealy abzzorber foundation. This seemed odd to me. Maybe they have a bunch of extras that they wanted to move.

I’ve also seen the mislabeling/misrepresenting issue as well but this would be less common (although it’s happened to me in my mattress testing). In some cases … it’s the store that says it’s a more expensive mattress than it is (and in this case a check of the law tag should confirm this) but that’s not something that most people would think to do because they wouldn’t know what the mattress should feel like in the first place. Hopefully this would be an “honest” mistake. A mattress that is actually mislabeled would be far less common and in this case the store wouldn’t know it unless there was a staff member that knows what the mattress was supposed to feel like and noticed that this one was “different”. I’ve heard of both cases but the first is more common.

I would think it would be uncommon for both to happen to the same person on the same day but we all have our unlucky days … unfortunately. One of those comedy of errors. I’m sure curious if your testing confirms what happened with the Jamison though … it just doesn’t make sense any other way.

Phoenix

[nola]

Hi Phoenix

I went to a different store to test the Jamison’s to be sure the original store beds were not mis labeled…I think they were ok. but I have a question…the website lists the construction of the Opulence…but the elegance is not so clear. Do you know what the ILD rating would be for the mysterious High Resiliency Ultra premium core would be?

This appears to be the only major difference between the opulence and the Elegance…the opulence has a 40 ILD core and is maybe 10 to 20 less supportive and plusher.

Jamison Elegance
2" 19 ILD Soft Talalay Latex
2" 19 ILD Soft Talalay Latex
7" Marriott High Resiliency Ultra Premium Core

Also I noticed these beds are on box springs made for the mattress…is this common? How would do you think the opulence mattress would feel on a solid foundation?

I’m working on getting preferences between these mattresses and PLB…and then building a mattress. (good idea?)

thanks!
Ed

[phoenix]

Hi nola,

High resilience polyfoam is the highest quality polyfoam available. It is more expensive than lower quality polyfoam but not as expensive as latex which means that the mattress would cost less than one that had a latex core.

The specs of HR polyfoam are much better than standard or HD polyfoam and approach latex in some areas. The term High Resilience (HR) is often misused though and by definition it means a high performance polyfoam that is 2.5 lbs density or higher, 2.4 compression modulus or higher, and 60% resilience or higher. It is a very high quality foam.

The ILD is not nearly as important because it has nothing to do with quality only with how much weight it supports at a certain compression level and you could test this by lying on the mattress to see if it kept you in alignment.

So the upper layers of these two would be very similar in terms of pressure relief but the support layers would be different. In your perception it seems that the polyfoam feels firmer to you which means that it could have a higher ILD than the latex although the latex would be considered very firm. Typically the ILD of a support layer is in the range of 32 - 36 but it can be both softer or firmer than this.

Also I noticed these beds are on box springs made for the mattress…is this common? How would do you think the opulence mattress would feel on a solid foundation?

The Powerstack foundation used by Jamison is actually not a box spring (which has springs and is usually used with an innerspring mattress) but a non flex rigid foundation that has no springs in it at all. This is normally the best type of foundation for a foam mattress. Manufacturers make and recommend a specific foundation or box spring for each of their mattresses because they have to be tested together to pass the fire code. Some manufacturers insist that their foundation is used while most will honor their warranty with a suitable foundation or support base even if it’s not their own.

I’m working on getting preferences between these mattresses and PLB…and then building a mattress. (good idea?)

This can be a good idea if it is with the help of a manufacturer who is good at matching the layers they have available with your own testing and your height/weight/sleeping position. Without this … it can be much more risky because there are many variables involved in the construction of a mattress (including the type of quilting/ticking used) and there are also variables in how different types of polyfoam perform and in the construction of the mattress such as gluing the layers). If you could dupicate all the layering exactly … then of course your mattress would be very close (within the spec tolerance of the materials) but this is not always possible and doint it all yourself often involves “substitutions” incolving different layer thicknesses or different ILD’s. If you do go in this direction … it is critical that the outlet that you order from has accurate descriptions of what you are buying.

My own order of preference would be …

1. Buying locally from a good quality/value outlet even at a premium (I would consider about 20% for comparable components and construction or sometimes more to be reasonable) if that meant having the chance to personally test a mattress.

2. A component mattress that was purchased from a knowledgeable manufacturer who was experienced in matching your testing and statistics to the layering and materials available in their mattresses.

3. Doing it all on my own by buying various layers and the ticking/quilting separately from one or more sources and then putting it all together on my own.

Any of these can be good choices but of course the risk of getting it wrong is different with each choice (and #3 is by far the most risky of all). Which is best for each person depends on the level of risk they are comfortable with vs any gains in value and is part of each person’s “value equation”.

Some people play poker with real money, some play with chips or pennies, and some don’t gamble at all

Phoenix

[nola]

Great Stuff as always Phoenix!

Yeah…I prefer the sure thing bet myself.

Ok, so you feel the Jamison beds are pretty good then, right…even with the non latex base layer.

Its surprising to hear the 19/19/40 would be considered a firmer mattress…there was one Jamison latex that was like solid rock!

how do you think Jamison and PLB match up together? Would you have a problem buying either one?

Also, the sales lady at the one store already tried to pull salelady BS on us…I’m not happy about the whole buying/selling process…I totally understand everyone needs to make a living but I don’t want to feel like I’m being played with either.

When we said we were looking for PLB she said they were 40% off…great! When we said we want two she said, oh we can make a deal on that for sure…at the end she got on the phone with her boss…spoke real loud so we could hear “oh, no they raised the prices THAT much?” So you get the idea. Its a shame cause the lady was very nice.

Anyway, any idea on how to approach buying in a store? I want to buy one and I’m forcing my mom and dad to buy one too…(you don’t even want to know what they’ve been sleeping on)…so I’d think there should be some room there don’t you?

Thanks again for all your help!
NOLA

[phoenix]

Hi nola,

Its surprising to hear the 19/19/40 would be considered a firmer mattress…there was one Jamison latex that was like solid rock!

All mattresses have a combination of softness (on top) and firmness (in the support layers) and giving them a single rating can really lead to confusion. The Jamison is both softer than normal on top and firmer than normal in the support layers. This would be what I call a “differential” construction meaning the softer foams on top are much softer (have a much greater differential) than the much firmer foams below with no “middle” or transition layer in between them.

how do you think Jamison and PLB match up together? Would you have a problem buying either one?

That would depend on the layering and how suitable it was for me and of course on the price (which may differ from store to store) but both of these are typically better quality and value than most of the better known alternatives. I would certainly buy either one if they were the best value available locally and I didn’t want to order online.

Also, the sales lady at the one store already tried to pull salelady BS on us…I’m not happy about the whole buying/selling process…I totally understand everyone needs to make a living but I don’t want to feel like I’m being played with either.

Fairly typical … unfortunately. There’s lots of online sources for brands like the PLB so price shopping is a little easier and keeps them a little more “honest” but many manufacturers like PLB keep pretty strict control over advertised prices so they typically aren’t allowed to advertise for lower. For example … the Nature typically lists for $2499 for the queen set at many places such as here and here but this outlet advertises lower (basically throwing in the foundation) and is $2199 and here is “on sale” for $2700. If they were to give you 40% off the “typical” price of $2499 for the set (a $1000 discount) then I would buy it in a heartbeat … but of course the discount would be off an inflated price.

Anyway, any idea on how to approach buying in a store? I want to buy one and I’m forcing my mom and dad to buy one too…(you don’t even want to know what they’ve been sleeping on)…so I’d think there should be some room there don’t you?

Yes there should definitely be some room there (and as a side note I would make sure that they also test for the model that works best for them which may not be the same as you). I would be prepared with the best online price that you can find (and typically there is a low limit set by some manufacturers so you may not find too much variance) and then for a purchase of 3 would certainly expect a discount below the lowest price I found. Sometimes an outlet has little room to move if their prices are dictated by the manufacturer who will not allow them to be sold for less (and will threaten to cut off supply) but even then they have many ways to increase value (such as including delivery, extra products, foundations, pillows and other accessories for free).

Phoenix

[nola]

Hi Poenix

I figured as much…

The mattresses were labeled with the prices you mentioned…but then she said 40% off…fantastic…once we said we needed two…she said GREAT we can give you an even better price (without us even suggesting it)…but she had to talk to her boss.

On the phone she spoke loudly so we could hear…“Oh, no they raised the price THAT much???” She came back to use with an 1,800 price for the queen in Pamper with the sealy foundation (wrong one)… so yeah it was a whole song and dance.

Is there pros and cons of a differential Soft top/Firm foundation compared to soft/medium/firm construction? Or does it all come down to feel, support and preference?

talk soon
E

[phoenix]

Hi nola,

I’m just waiting for the day whan someone overhears a comment that goes like …

"What … you mean they lowered the prices THAT MUCH! Wow … I’ve been overcharging everyone. I can’t wait to tell mu customer that the price I quoted them is 20% too high!

But sadly I don’t think this is coming anytime soon.

Is there pros and cons of a differential Soft top/Firm foundation compared to soft/medium/firm construction? Or does it all come down to feel, support and preference?

One is not better than another but they can create a different feel. There is also not a real dividing line between the two (although most mattresses lean towards one or the other). 4" of 19 over 40 ILD is well into the differential camp though and for many people would have the feel of soft and cushy over firm and solid (if they weren’t too light) rather than a more “gradual” feel. Many would feel both the softness and the firmness (again depending on the weight, shape, and sleeping positions). Some pillowtops or even hotel beds are like this with a thicker soft layer on top of a firm support layer (usually an innerspring).

Phoenix

[nola]

Hi Phoenix

Ok…I THINK things are getting narrowed down.

Nature PLB and Elegance from Jamison (or maybe even the Jamison Opulence-but I think its a little soft)

Here are the stats…

Specifications Nature

Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric
Latex BLISS Milliken’s Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier
2" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD
1" Natural Talalay Latex 28 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex 36 ILD
1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex
10" Mattress Height
9" Steel Foundation
19" Overall Mattress & Foundation
20 Years Limited Warranty 10/10

Jamison Elegance:

2" 19 ILD Soft Talalay Latex
2" 19 ILD Soft Talalay Latex
7" Marriott High Resiliency Ultra Premium Core
Box Spring
Power Stack
Durable, welded steel
Enhanced stability
Maximum Support

Jamison Opulence

2" 19 ILD Soft Talalay Latex
2" 19 ILD Soft Talalay Latex
6" 40 ILD Firm Talalay Latex
2" Supportive Base Form
Box Spring
Power Stack
Durable, welded steel
Enhanced stability
Maximum Support

Does this make sense to you that I’d like these beds…do they “fit” together in a pattern? Or am I all over the board?

I’m 6’ 175 back and side sleeper with neck issues

The Jamison Elegance does not have a latex core…obviously isn’t as long lasting as latex since the warrantee drops by 25% (from 20 years to 15 Years)

If the prices were equal between the PLB and Jamison would it be a toss up on which to get? The quality of the covers about the same? foundations?

What about the coolness…do you think the core of the Elegance will make that mattress hotter than the other pure latex mattresses? (although the opulence does have a 1 inch poly layer on the bottom)

Thanks so much for you insight…!!!

Oh, one more thing…is there a place you recommend ordering online…or at least compare prices of Jamison and PLB so I know what I’m working with when I speak to the store (or even just order online)

talk soon
E

Just a quick little update…I spoke with one of the locations that offer the PLB…same company that had the wrong foundations at the location I tried…I spoke with the owner at a different location and he said he didn’t like the performance of the foundation that comes with them??? He likes the southerland foundation…not sure what that is…Anyway just wanted to let you know about that…

[phoenix]

Hi nola,

Does this make sense to you that I’d like these beds…do they “fit” together in a pattern? Or am I all over the board?

Well two of these are similar (the only difference being the core) but the Nature is quite different from the other two and for most people would be much firmer particularly for side sleeping (the comfort layers are firmer overall and there is only 2" of 19 ILD before you start to compress firmer foam). It would probably help to know which positions each one felt the “best” or if you tested them all in all your sleeping positions or long enough to be able to really tell the difference between them. My tendency would be to think that 4" of 19 ILD latex would be a little on the thick/soft side for back sleeping but again it would depend on seeing your position when you were lying on it which of course I can’t do. I would make sure though that with the versions which used 4" of 19 that you were able to completely relax while you were lying on your back with no tendency to keep any of your muscles “tense” to hold your heavier parts up. I would also make sure that you spent enough time on your side on the nature to make sure that you felt no pressure points or joint pressure on your side. It’s quite possible of course that there is a wide range of mattresses that you would do well with and that you aren’t as sensitive to differences as some are (which can be a good thing :)).

As far as the specs go … when you are comparing polyfoam with latex … similar ILD’s in polyfoam will be firmer than latex because talalay latex is tested for ILD on a 6" layer for 25% compression (1.5") while polyfoam is tested for 25% compression on a 4" layer (1") and latex is also more elastic than polyfoam and will form itself to your shape better (more pressure relieving). Your preference for the firmness of the polyfoam core seems to indicate that you prefer firmer support layers but this may be to “offset” the thickness and the softness of the comfort layers.

While polyfoam in a support layer is not as subject to wear as it is in the upper layers … it also doesn’t have the same resilience and performance as latex. It’s “stiffer”, not as point elastic, and has a lower compression modulus which means it doesn’t adjust itself as well to different sleeping positions and weight distributions.

The coolness of a mattress will have more to do with the upper layers and the ticking/quilting than with the lower layers although they will have a smaller effect as well. In addition, any foam where you sink in more (like the 4" 19 ILD layers) will be a little warmer than the same foam that is a bit firmer and you don’t sink in quite as much although Talalay latex is cooler and more breathable than other foams. The polyfoam layer on the bottom is to help with the stability and handling of the mattress and to help protect the latex. PLB used to use this (an inch of polyfoam on the bottom) but people wanted “all latex” so they put an ultra ultra firm 50 ILD talalay latex on the bottom.

If you decide to order online, post #21 here has a list and brief description of the members of the site that specialize in helping people choose a mattress on the phone and shipping across the country. They are all somewhat different in their options and features but your testing will help them to help you decide on which of their constructions would work best for you. While none of them would be exactly like any of the mattresses you have tried, they are all good at “translating” your specs and experiences into the layering of their particular mattress that may work best for you.

Two of your mattresses in effect translate into very soft over very firm while the Nature translates into a more progressive construction similar to soft/medium/firm. Trying to match the ILD’s exactly without the layer thicknesses also being the same (which the online version aren’t) would involve approximation and intuition. I would try to decide on your favorite of the ones you’ve tested as a model.

The ticking on both the PLB and the Jamison are unquilted stretch knits which affect the feel of the latex underneath them less than a ticking which is quilted or a stiffer woven material.

If the prices were equal between the PLB and Jamison would it be a toss up on which to get? The quality of the covers about the same? foundations?

The PLB probably has a little nicer ticking although they are both similar in terms of being a stretch knit. Both foundations are non flex but one is wood slats (PLB) and one is a metal grid (Jamison). Both would work well and I would rate them roughly equivalent in terms of performance.

While I have no idea what the guy meant about the foundation “performing” … I would guess he meant that it didn’t flex and he thinks a latex mattress should be on a more flexible foundation. While I don’t think this is the best choice for any foam mattress and most manufacturers would share this opinion … there are a few who do the same. I believe that a foam mattress does best on a rigid non flexing foundation so that the foam does all the work it’s designed to do. It could also be that the Southerland foundations cost them less and this may increase their profit but I certainly don’t know this for sure of course.

So overall … I would see if you can narrow down your choices between the three you mentioned (testing the two thicker comfort layers for alignment especially on your back and the Nature especially for pressure relief on your side). If they appeared to be equal … the “safer” choice would be the firmer thinner comfort layer of the Nature. When two options appear to be equal with careful testing in all your sleeping positions …I would always choose the firmer … either for purchase or as a guideline for an online purchase. If one of the 4" 19 ILD talalay models are clearly better for you in all your sleeping positions … then I would use the “best” of these as your guideline.

Phoenix

[nola]

totally awesome thoughts Phoenix!

Made total sense to me…I’ll go check them out one more time.

Also, as far as online stores…I see the ones you mentioned were for constructing a bed…do you know of any online stores that offer the Jamison and PLB at fair investments?

thanks so much…you really need a tip jar on here!!! (hint hint)

talk soon
E

[phoenix]

Hi nola,

http://www.goodmorningmattresscenter.com/ Sells the Jamisons online and will ship anywhere in the country. The prices they quote on the phone includes shipping. Some of the models are listed in the wrong category and there is at least one error in their layer description (see the Opulence here which says it is in the TLC line and only has 2" of 19 ILD on top) but it is the correct mattress and their description is wrong … it’s not a different mattress. If there is ever a difference between a listed mattress and the Jamison site … the Jamison site would be correct.

If nothing else their prices can act as a value reference point for a local purchase. They normally quote a good price for an online customer but they do occasionally have an online sale at times say like the end of the month if they are trying to meet a quota but it would be “taking a chance” if you waited and the particular mattress you wanted wasn’t one of the ones on sale. Their sales are not the “huge amount off an inflated price” type of sale that’s so typical of the chain store type of outlets and would be a smaller discount on their true “normal” price. Having said that … it is always worth “making an offer” :).

Hope this helps

Phoenix

PS: I really do appreciate the thought about the “tip jar” but for the moment I’m happy if people tell others about the forum. At some point I may do that but I’m always hesitant because the plan was always to provide free services to consumers and to invite the better manufacturers and outlets to become members as a means of supporting the time and expense of the project. I’m happy if the site helped you though

[nola]

Hi Phoenix

The mattress quest is FINALLY over! (well I hope it is anyway)

They are delivering the mattress today.

I decided on the Jamison Elegance…I wanted to like the opulence or the PLB Nature…but both didn’t feel supportive enough for my hips when on my back.

I’m not totally happy about buying it from a larger retail location…but I liked your advice about buying a locally tested bed first before buying Online…I can see now that’s wise advice–the small differences in mattresses makes a noticeable difference.

I have a question…I purchased the Protect a Bed mattress protector from the mattress store (I see now I would have been WAY less expensive to buy online)…

But More importantly…I see it got Fair reviews on Amazon…what are your thoughts? Is there another one that’s better I should consider before opening this one?

FYI…this is the one with a 10 year warrantee and is very thin. Its supposed to breath but stay water resistant at same time.

Thanks so much for all your help along the way…!!!

talk soon
NOLA

[phoenix]

Hi nola,

Congratulations on your new mattress. It seems to me that you made a good choice with the Elegance

I have a question…I purchased the Protect a Bed mattress protector from the mattress store (I see now I would have been WAY less expensive to buy online)…

The protect-a-bed protectors are a good compromise for many people between breathability, waterproofness, and how it affects the mattress. They are not as breathable as say a wool protector and for some people this can present an issue but they they more waterproof than wool as well (wool is water resistant not waterproof) and have less of an effect on the feel of the mattress. I personally tend to prefer the ones that cover the top only rather than the ones that fully encase the whole mattress and I would also tend towards a good quality fabric on one or both sides of the protector. Overall this and other similar brands such as the Luna are good choices for those who are looking for a thin, waterproof mattress protector which doesn’t have a big effect on the feel of their mattress and are willing to give up some breathability and temperature control as part of the tradeoff.

There’s more about the different types and the tradeoffs involved in this thread and the links it leads to and a forum title search (searching on the title names only) on “cover” and “protect” has even more.

Phoenix

[nola]

Hi Phoenix I’m back!

searching for more advice!

I purchased the Jamison Elegance bed (2 inches of 19 2 inches of 19 7 inches or high density foam) I discovered the bed had a piece of paper or plastic under the mattress cover…some sort of defect.

I tried out the bed for about a week…I slept well, didn’t feel like I woke up much during the night…and felt fresh and ready to go in the mornings.

But I felt the bed was a little hard for laying on my side.

The store said they would replace the bed because of the defect…I contemplated switching to the Opulence (2 inches of 19 2 inches of 19 and 6 inches of 40)… I felt this was a little soft at the store but since I was upgrading from a futon that could have been the reason.

I decided to switch.

I’ve been on the opulence a couple weeks now. I do feel the bed is a little soft for back sleeping but great for side sleeping. I don’t feel I wake too much in the night but in the morning I think I’m feeling a little beat up.

I don’t know if I’ve got a case of the grass is always greener or what…now that I have experience on both beds I’m thinking I felt fresher in the morning on the firmer bed.

One of the main reasons I switched to the Opulence was because I felt like I was laying on top of the Elegance and not “in a bed”. And the first night I slept on it I woke up with raging neck headache…but that was only the first night.

The store offers a 100 day switch out policy…so I can switch back…I think the ideal would be a bed in-between the two…but they don’t make one. I feel weird having the store switch back to the Elegance.

Does any of this sound like the normal process?

On a side note. Do you know of any iphone apps that monitor your sleeping? Any good ones? Custom Sleep Design is supposed to release one for Months but never has.

Thanks so much for your thought.

[phoenix]

Hi Nola,

One of the advantages of dealing with a better manufacturer that is focused on quality and more responsive to their dealers is that warranty issues usually fall in the customers favor when they are in anything resembling a grey area. Jamison is good at this according to many dealers I have talked with and they respond well to legitimate issues.

Your experience on the two mattresses is a little unusual because they both have the same type and amount of soft talalay in the comfort layers (4" of 19 ILD) and would both seem to be on the thick side for back sleeping. I’m just wondering if the paper or plastic “defect” stopped the foam in the original mattress from compressing as much and feeling firmer than it really was.

The support cores would also seem to be fairly similar (40 ILD latex and 2" of base foam compared to 7" of firm Marriott foam of unknown ILD) so the two mattresses would seem quite comparable in their basic specs (although the latex would be more flexible, responsive, and point elastic and also thicker with the extra 2" of base foam which may also be what is making it seem softer).

Because both mattresses have identical comfort layers (and identical stretch covers) any difference would be in either the thickness or the ILD of the support layers … or in the defect which made it firmer than it normally would have been. I suspect the latter may have more to do with it than is immediately apparent.

whenyou tried both models in the store … did the Elegance also seem noticeably firmer than the Opulance as well?

If it did … then the support foams would be the difference and i would go with the firmer version (even with a very firm support layer … 4" of 19 is on the thick side for back sleeping). There is also a possibility that you are somewhat “going through” the lower ILD top layers and feeling the firmness of the support layer but with 4" this is not as likely.

Are you using the same protector in both cases and are there any other differences in the bedding or sheets you are using that could account for the amount of difference between the two?

So I would make sure that the difference in your two mattresses is also apparent in the store models. If one is clearly firmer than the other … I would go with the firmer version. If the Elegance in the store is softer than you remember and similar to the Opulence … then I would likely consider the Grandeur which has a 3" comfort layer with the bottom inch a little firmer at 24 ILD (which may isolate you better from the firmer layer below it) and would be better for back sleeping alignment. I would try it in the store to see how it felt (if they have it). It would be easier to soften it up a bit if needed than to make a mattress with a 4" soft comfort layer that was too thick any firmer.

Phoenix

[nola]

Hi Phoenix

Thanks.

I should have been a little more clear about the defect…it was just a small piece maybe a 12 by 12 near the foot of the bed…so that didn’t have much of an effect.

Yes, Jamison was great about just switching the beds out…they were very shocked by it though…I don’t think they have very many defect returns.

At the store the two beds definitely felt different. The elegance has a very firm feel…It is strange that the comfort layers are the same yet they feel very different.

I think I’ll take your advice and switch back to the Elegance…Elegance on my back was fine…(although it didn’t feel like I was on what I pictured a bed should feel like…make sense?)…on my side I feel it is a little firm (but my arms didn’t fall asleep or anything)

Also, any thought on the Iphone app for sleep quality? It looks like Custom sleep design is coming out with one, but its been delayed a LONG time now.

thanks again!
NOLA

[phoenix]

Hi Nola,

Since the “defect” clearly wasn’t the cause of the difference (I was thinking that somehow there was a whole sheet of plastic left inside) … then the support layers would be the cause of the difference (assuming of course that they were both being used on the same foundation which I’m guessing didn’t change).

In this case … I would trust my body and go with the one that seems firmer and more supportive to you and that doesn’t produce “symptoms”. 4" of 19 ILD is certainly fairly thick and even if the support layer is firmer then this would likely be the maximum I would consider for someone who spent a fair amount of time on their back … and of course it seems that this works well for you.

The difference in “feel” is probably due to the different characteristics of a latex and a polyfoam (high quality) support layer with the latex being more “responsive”. If you are not experiencing pressure “symptoms” (which would be unlikely with 4" of soft latex on top) … then I may give it a little more time just to make sure but then go with what you know works well.

Phoenix

[phoenix]

Hi Nola,

Also, any thought on the Iphone app for sleep quality? It looks like Custom sleep design is coming out with one, but its been delayed a LONG time now.

I keep forgetting to answer this

I don’t know of anything like this at this point (although I haven’t really looked either). I know that CSD has information on their site about this but I don’t know any ETA. It would be interesting to see when it’s available.

Phoenix