Very interesting. Essentia has a great âdefensiveâ strategy when it comes to batting away the balls of doubt, and creating new ones for other products, case in point, the âfactsâ about wool and why they donât have any in their mattress.
Bottom line, wool absorbs and regulates moisture, is not an excellent home for dust mites, and is not folded between the different foam layers of another brand of mattress. That is what your posts have led me to believe. In terms of it being non-allergenic, I can see how organic wool might behave differently, if not in direct contact with skin.
Itâs strange that when I spoke to the Essentia rep, she said that basically their mattresses doesnât burn, therefore, they didnât need the wool. Haha. And you just said that they have a fire retardant barrier built into their mattresses? What part of the mattress is this located in? The very outer layer? Like a chocolate coated cookie or something? And you say that they do in fact use Dunlop AND the Talalay latex, but the Dunlop is located in the interior of the mattress, producing the structure and stability, and their Talalay exterior is made of the mixed stuff, making the âmemory foamâ? That would mean they have a combo of good stuff and not so good stuff, meaning, that they would have to use some synthetic compounds to make the TalalayâŚcorrect? At this point, anything with âmemory foamâ attached to it is scary enough for me as it is, since that is what got me here. So just the mention of this makes me suspicious.
They use a Kevlar fire barrier that is part of the cover (see here) which is how it passes the fire regulations.
They donât use Talalay at all (you were given incorrect information)⌠just Dunlop.
There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. Unlike the misinformation on their site indicates ⌠there is Talalay latex available that uses 100% natural rubber (no synthetic rubber) but they donât use it.
Oh, I guess the rep and/or I confused the Talalay with the Dunlop. Yes, I went to their site, and there is a layer of the mattress that has the dunlop slab of latex in there. The other slabs donât mention or label the process.
And yes, she mentioned something about the Kevlar, except I couldnât visualize where that would have been used when referring to âexteriorâ. So they actually weave Kevlar into the organic cotton cover? Iâm confused as to where the Kevlar is located exactly, it doesnât really say on the âfire retardantâ section of the site. What are the health effects of Kevlar? Is that a toxic material? They claim it is an inert substance, no VOCs.
Just as an observer of this thread, Iâm wondering why you are even still considering this company? Theyâve blatantly misled you, and as Pheonix said, there are other companies out there who use the same materials for much less money.
I guess I am trying to glean all the information which would disqualify this company from my consideration. I want to know why exactly I am crossing them off my list. And because they seem to have put out some incorrect and inaccurate claims, I wanted to know more. I havenât tried any of these brands yet, so it will also come down to comfort, and price if thatâs even flexible. Price is the last thing on my list, because safety is number one, and comfort is a very close second.
I personally donât think they are a terrible company or a terrible product, from what I can see thus far. I just donât know if theyâre right for me. I do plan to investigate Dormio, and the options at SOMA organic, like Obasan, and Green Sleep. Theyâre very different products and Iâm sure there will be things that I will like and dislike as I go through trying them out, things that wonât necessarily be related to their natural-ness.
But I am starting with safety, and learning all the aspects and components that make up this picture are part of the inquiry I am currently engaging in.
No ⌠it would be âsockâ that surrounds the interior components of the mattress and then the cover goes over this.
While itâs certainly a synthetic material (the same material that is used in bulletproof vests) I wouldnât consider it to be toxic no. There is more about âsafeâ fire barriers in post #2 here and post #4 here and in post #13 here.
They donât specify any further details about their fire barrier or whether it is all kevlar or just contains kevlar and includes other materials as well.
Hah, the MSDS for Kevlar states that fibrils of the material, if inhaled will cause lung damage. So I guess itâs not better than wool in this case. It says you should use a ventilator or respirator if you are handling large quantities of it. I wonder what the MSDS sheet says for wool fibers? Are we comparing apples with apples? I wonder.
Oh, and the Essentia rep mentioned that in the case of the Kevlar burning, it would release some toxic gases, as is reflected in the MSDS sheet, but less than the typical toxic mattresses treated with toxic flame retardants.
Any high concentration of dust particles can cause mechanical irritation to the lungs but this would apply to the factory workers that make the Kevlar and not to the final use product that is used by consumers that would never be exposed to anything close to the level of dust particles from the Kevlar fabric that could cause any harm. Even drinking too much water can be harmful
Itâs been asked many times. You can see the details here.
True true. Inhaling a cloud of baking soda would not be beneficial either. For example.
I guess Iâve located some decent and healthy choices in Dormio, Green Sleep and Obasan. Iâll have to try 'em out to see what feel really works for me. I am used to sleeping on a box spring with a decent pillow top, so something soft, because I am a side sleeper, and so is my boyfriend, who has wide shoulders, and complains if there is anything âpinchingâ his shoulder. It cannot be too firm. But, it has to be supportive enough not to give me lower back pain, which I am prone to. Soft but supportive and durable is what I am looking for at the end of the day.
I noticed you had issues viewing the dormio youtube videos. I donât think youâll find any more info that you donât already know, but I found them directly on youtube by searching for âdormio mattressâ.
Careful testing is always an important part of a local purchase but I would keep in mind that âfeelâ is very subjective and going by the âshowroom feelâ or by the âsubjective comfortâ of a mattress alone can lead to choices that can have a lower chance of success than random chance alone (see post #4 here).
Thanks sidesleeper, the video did work, but youâre right, most of that info is written on their site.
Phoenix: I am such a bad tester, lol. It took me over an hour the first time I bought my first adult mattress. The woman at the Sleep Country in 2006 was really helpful and told me which mattress showed my back being most aligned, and to trust my instinct about a softer mattress for me as a side sleeper. I donât think she works there any more But it sounds like the people at SOMA are well versed in posture and alignment, and all that. When I was in Sleep Country this year trying to find some suitable replacement for my initial badly structured purchase on a warranty exchange, nobody was so helpful as that time. They just chased me for my money. And I hate that pressure. it makes me skittish and angry and then I canât focus on loving a bed. I just think about them watching me and waiting for me to decide and spend money. I really really hate that. Next time someone pressures me, Iâll be like, I donât want to be pressured or Iâm not going to be able to decide and I am outta here!!!
Unfortunately this is typical of most chain stores who are more focused on âsales techniquesâ than they are on helping their customers make the most suitable choice. As sad as it may be ⌠if you have spent more than an hour or two on this site you will probably know more meaningful information about mattresses and the materials inside them than most of the salespeople in mainstream stores that sell them.
Thanks Phoenix, I looked through your testing tips, like assessing for pressure relief, and posture and alignment, and personal preferences, for safety and no chemical and allergic reaction. I think I am working out the latter right now, and then when Iâm in the store I can asses the two former. I already know that natural latex is durable, and more so than conventional box spring/foam mattresses that I have now.
Phoenix, I have a tricky question for you: my boyfriend is a side and back sleeper who likes a soft mattress so his shoulders are not pinched, since he has quite wide shoulders. He also has a bad case of carpal tunnel that is now resurfacing again after a lot of activity at work - he works in IT and is at a computer desk pretty much all the time, even at home in the later evening doing personal things. âŚhave you ever heard of carpal tunnel being aggravated by sleep? Or is it just through the tension of the hand tendon through too much time clicking with the mouse? I have never had carpal tunnel myself, even though I work at a computer all day as well. My thoughts are that everything is connected, and it is possible that his shoulder during sleep might be able to impact his hand tendons during the day? I might research this more.
I tracked down the headquarters of Malouf Marketing Inc. company - president is Samuel B Malouf - the umbrella company seems to be named CVB Inc. based in Logan, UT. Information below:
I have just filed a complaint with the BBB of United States, since the company is based in Utah.
***EDIT: In fairness to the company (Lucid/Malouf Marketing Inc.), I decided to make this edit to say that they offered to refund me the money after speaking them over the phone, and apologized if their website had misled me in any way to believe the mattress topper was made of something it wasnât. Their product is not âbadâ for the entire population, just for some people, like me. I must also add that after becoming ill from VOC exposure/toxicity, I must also include under my suspicion, both of the Twin XL Simmons and Sealy mattresses that were bought just prior to purchasing the Lucid mattress topper - both mattresses are made of some kind of polyurethane foam and/or memory foam, and both emit a chemical smell. I am most likely one of the few people in the population that is especially chemically sensitive to VOCs and industrial glues, agents, flame retardants, etc. and just because I have had a bad reaction to this/these product/s does not rule it out from anyone else purchasing it and not having a problem with it.
***I would just like to say: if you have a history of being allergic or reactive to industrial chemicals like cleaners, emissions, or anything with offensive vapors and chemicals, like generic home cleaning solutions or cleaning sprays or air fresheners or detergents or soaps, for example, then I would strongly urge you to rethink purchasing ANY mattress product with âmemory foamâ or any kind of industrial polyurethane foam product. Even though you canât smell the sources of all VOCs, your reaction and natural aversion to the above things are, in my opinion, a good indicator of your chemical sensitivity.
Based on the contents of your email I doubt that any manufacturer would take you seriously because they are selling a mattress that meets all the safety regulations in the US and is also CertiPur certified and some of what you are saying is just factually incorrect and exaggerated.
I can certainly sympathize with you because of your experiences and itâs also true that some people can be very sensitive to some of the chemicals that are used to make some types of memory foam (and I had a similar experience with a different manufacturer) and would do best to avoid them ⌠this is also true for other types of material as well.
I think you are confusing a personal issue that you are sensitive to certain types of materials with a broader safety or legal issue and there would be little they can do to help you or satisfy this type of complaint.
If you believe that all memory foam should be banned then your efforts may be better directed towards changing the regulations that allow them to be sold in the first place rather than any individual manufacturers of memory foam mattresses because the issues you are concerned with would apply to the whole industry.
I just spoke to someone from Malouf Marketing / CVB Inc. on the phone, named Steve. He will be issuing me a full refund. He said thereâs ânothing they can doâ for any medical bills arising from this illness. He also said that some of their products contain latex/gel/charcoal, but not all do, and not the memory foam. In my opinion, this is not made clear on the Lucid site.
I pointed out to him that even though he claims the foam is centi-pure certified for low VOCs it doenât mean its a natural product and it still contains VOCsâŚand in no way does it contain latex/charcoal/gel.
I am still upholding my BBB complaint for the misleading information on their product page.
***EDIT: after Lucid offering to give me a full refund and their apology for my bad experience, I will likely not pursue the BBB complaint.
