Hi 1whitehorse1,
Careful testing is always an important part of a local purchase but I would keep in mind that âfeelâ is very subjective and going by the âshowroom feelâ or by the âsubjective comfortâ of a mattress alone can lead to choices that can have a lower chance of success than random chance alone (see post #4 here).
Phoenix
Thanks sidesleeper, the video did work, but youâre right, most of that info is written on their site.
Phoenix: I am such a bad tester, lol. It took me over an hour the first time I bought my first adult mattress. The woman at the Sleep Country in 2006 was really helpful and told me which mattress showed my back being most aligned, and to trust my instinct about a softer mattress for me as a side sleeper. I donât think she works there any more 
But it sounds like the people at SOMA are well versed in posture and alignment, and all that. When I was in Sleep Country this year trying to find some suitable replacement for my initial badly structured purchase on a warranty exchange, nobody was so helpful as that time. They just chased me for my money. And I hate that pressure. it makes me skittish and angry and then I canât focus on loving a bed. I just think about them watching me and waiting for me to decide and spend money. I really really hate that. Next time someone pressures me, Iâll be like, I donât want to be pressured or Iâm not going to be able to decide and I am outta here!!!
Hi 1whitehorse1,
Unfortunately this is typical of most chain stores who are more focused on âsales techniquesâ than they are on helping their customers make the most suitable choice. As sad as it may be ⌠if you have spent more than an hour or two on this site you will probably know more meaningful information about mattresses and the materials inside them than most of the salespeople in mainstream stores that sell them.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix, I looked through your testing tips, like assessing for pressure relief, and posture and alignment, and personal preferences, for safety and no chemical and allergic reaction. I think I am working out the latter right now, and then when Iâm in the store I can asses the two former. I already know that natural latex is durable, and more so than conventional box spring/foam mattresses that I have now.
Phoenix, I have a tricky question for you: my boyfriend is a side and back sleeper who likes a soft mattress so his shoulders are not pinched, since he has quite wide shoulders. He also has a bad case of carpal tunnel that is now resurfacing again after a lot of activity at work - he works in IT and is at a computer desk pretty much all the time, even at home in the later evening doing personal things. âŚhave you ever heard of carpal tunnel being aggravated by sleep? Or is it just through the tension of the hand tendon through too much time clicking with the mouse? I have never had carpal tunnel myself, even though I work at a computer all day as well. My thoughts are that everything is connected, and it is possible that his shoulder during sleep might be able to impact his hand tendons during the day? I might research this more.
Hi Phoenix, everyone,
I received a reply back from LUCID aka Malouf Marketing. Factory states the toppers are 100% polyurethane.
I tracked down the headquarters of Malouf Marketing Inc. company - president is Samuel B Malouf - the umbrella company seems to be named CVB Inc. based in Logan, UT. Information below:
http://www.manta.com/c/mmd5xr9/cvb-inc
Just left a message with his receptionist, just name and number.
I guess I will wait to see if he calls me back.
I have just filed a complaint with the BBB of United States, since the company is based in Utah.
***EDIT: In fairness to the company (Lucid/Malouf Marketing Inc.), I decided to make this edit to say that they offered to refund me the money after speaking them over the phone, and apologized if their website had misled me in any way to believe the mattress topper was made of something it wasnât. Their product is not âbadâ for the entire population, just for some people, like me. I must also add that after becoming ill from VOC exposure/toxicity, I must also include under my suspicion, both of the Twin XL Simmons and Sealy mattresses that were bought just prior to purchasing the Lucid mattress topper - both mattresses are made of some kind of polyurethane foam and/or memory foam, and both emit a chemical smell. I am most likely one of the few people in the population that is especially chemically sensitive to VOCs and industrial glues, agents, flame retardants, etc. and just because I have had a bad reaction to this/these product/s does not rule it out from anyone else purchasing it and not having a problem with it.
***I would just like to say: if you have a history of being allergic or reactive to industrial chemicals like cleaners, emissions, or anything with offensive vapors and chemicals, like generic home cleaning solutions or cleaning sprays or air fresheners or detergents or soaps, for example, then I would strongly urge you to rethink purchasing ANY mattress product with âmemory foamâ or any kind of industrial polyurethane foam product. Even though you canât smell the sources of all VOCs, your reaction and natural aversion to the above things are, in my opinion, a good indicator of your chemical sensitivity.
Hi 1whitehorse,
I think you may be wasting your time and energy.
Based on the contents of your email I doubt that any manufacturer would take you seriously because they are selling a mattress that meets all the safety regulations in the US and is also CertiPur certified and some of what you are saying is just factually incorrect and exaggerated.
I can certainly sympathize with you because of your experiences and itâs also true that some people can be very sensitive to some of the chemicals that are used to make some types of memory foam (and I had a similar experience with a different manufacturer) and would do best to avoid them ⌠this is also true for other types of material as well.
I think you are confusing a personal issue that you are sensitive to certain types of materials with a broader safety or legal issue and there would be little they can do to help you or satisfy this type of complaint.
If you believe that all memory foam should be banned then your efforts may be better directed towards changing the regulations that allow them to be sold in the first place rather than any individual manufacturers of memory foam mattresses because the issues you are concerned with would apply to the whole industry.
Phoenix
I just spoke to someone from Malouf Marketing / CVB Inc. on the phone, named Steve. He will be issuing me a full refund. He said thereâs ânothing they can doâ for any medical bills arising from this illness. He also said that some of their products contain latex/gel/charcoal, but not all do, and not the memory foam. In my opinion, this is not made clear on the Lucid site.
I pointed out to him that even though he claims the foam is centi-pure certified for low VOCs it doenât mean its a natural product and it still contains VOCsâŚand in no way does it contain latex/charcoal/gel.
I am still upholding my BBB complaint for the misleading information on their product page.
***EDIT: after Lucid offering to give me a full refund and their apology for my bad experience, I will likely not pursue the BBB complaint.
Hi 1whitehorse1,
Thatâs good news ⌠and if they are giving you a refund after 4 months then I would say that is âabove and beyondâ what could be reasonably expected of them and I hope that you take the time to write a good review about them for being so responsive to your issues.
I donât think that they are claiming to be a natural product and I donât think they claim their memory foam toppers contain latex either. Every mattress material emits VOCâs ⌠including latex. It would be helpful if you could link to the topper you purchased so we could read the description because if itâs this one then I donât see anything about it containing latex, charcoal, or gel and you seem to be alleging they are making claims that they arenât.
If you are holding a company to account for what they say then itâs just as important that what you say is accurate and reasonable as well.
Phoenix
In a nutshell, I felt I was misled to believe, through their slick website, that their memory foam mattress toppers contained latex, gel, and bamboo charcoal, which sounded ânaturalâ. When in fact, it was 100% polyurethane foam. As Steve noted, it âdoesnât sayâ what is ânot includedâ in each product on the website, which led to my confusion. As a consumer who comes to the website with zero information on what memory foam is, and what it isnât, I am sure many other people could jump to the wrong conclusion. And I am sure that this is something that Lucid profits off of.
Steve apologized in an email to me for the misunderstanding achieved through their website content. I think he gets where I am coming from. I made my points clear to him over the phone. He said he has overseen the refund to my credit card.
Hi 1whitehorse,
Can you supply a link to the topper description that âled you to believeâ that it contained latex, or gel, or bamboo chacoal or was a natural material?
Memory foam is a type of polyurethane foam with additional chemicals added that increase the density and add a slow response to the material so this part is accurate.
If you are âholding them to accountâ for the accuracy of their claims or descriptions then itâs also important that you are just as accurate in your own statements as you expect them to be.
Phoenix
Of course. Here is their website. Notice how they throw around the words âmemory foamâ âmattressâ âtopperâ âgel infusedâ, etc, etc, etc. without a great deal of discipline? Itâs all quite vague and glossed over with marketing verbage. The âaboutâ section speaks to the materials as though they were featured in all their products. As someone who knew zero information about memory foam, and the different types of foam, latex, VOCs, polyurethane, off-gassing, etc, I would say this site can easily confuse a newbie like myself.
http://www.lucidmattress.com/mattress-toppers/
This is especially misleading: âWe infuse bamboo charcoal into memory foam.â - well, no, not all the memory foam on your site. You should be specific in saying which lines and models you do this to, if in fact that is true at all.
This is also not altogether true: âOur latest line of mattresses and toppers include the cooling comforts of gel infused memory foam. The memory foam is infused with gel beads that will capture and dissipate your body heat. The cool sleeping surface provides the optimal thermal experience.â - No, according to the factory, there is 100% polyurethane in the topper I purchased.
So again, these are examples of general, and SWEEPING statements that seems to include my product, but they donât really.
Also, I didnât find any mention of their Centi-pure certification on this website. Nothinâ. Correct me if I am wrong, because I couldnât find it anywhere.
***EDIT: there is a centi-pur certification found in the FAQ section of their web site.
Lastly, the actual product looks NOTHING like what is illustrated on their site. The site shows a two-ply, layered foam material that is white in colour with differing textures. The actual product is one, uniform, yellow piece of foam with no top or bottom layer(s), and it has 1/4 inch holes punched through it. Extremely different illustration versus the actual product.
So by this, I think I have a reason to say that the site is misleading.
I didnât see anything intentionally misleading on their site.
Hi 1whitehorse,
[quote]Of course. Here is their website. Notice how they throw around the words âmemory foamâ âmattressâ âtopperâ âgel infusedâ, etc, etc, etc. without a great deal of discipline? Itâs all quite vague and glossed over with marketing verbage. The âaboutâ section speaks to the materials as though they were featured in all their products. As someone who knew zero information about memory foam, and the different types of foam, latex, VOCs, polyurethane, off-gassing, etc, I would say this site can easily confuse a newbie like myself.
www.lucidmattress.com/mattress-toppers/
This is especially misleading: âWe infuse bamboo charcoal into memory foam.â - well, no, not all the memory foam on your site. You should be specific in saying which lines and models you do this to, if in fact that is true at all.[/quote]
I think that you are confusing more generic information about the products a manufacturer or retailer sells in general with the more specific descriptions of a product that you are actually purchasing. Most manufacturers websites will talk about the materials they use in more generic terms and then the pages for the products themselves will have the more specific descriptions of that particular product. This is common in the industry (and most industries) and as long as the specific descriptions of each product are accurate I donât see a problem with this. I think that most people would recognize the difference.
The link you posted includes a link to the specific topper you purchased and if you click it I donât see anything in the description about latex, bamboo, or gel. Basically all it says is that itâs a 3" memory foam topper which is accurate ⌠at least as far as the description goes.
[quote]This is also not altogether true: âOur latest line of mattresses and toppers include the cooling comforts of gel infused memory foam. The memory foam is infused with gel beads that will capture and dissipate your body heat. The cool sleeping surface provides the optimal thermal experience.â - No, according to the factory, there is 100% polyurethane in the topper I purchased.
So again, these are examples of general, and SWEEPING statements that seems to include my product, but they donât really.[/quote]
Yes these are more generic comments that are meant to give a general overview of the products they have available and you can find this type of generic information on many if not most websites. My previous reply already mentioned that memory foam is a type of polyurethane foam and their description of the topper you purchased that says that it is memory foam is accurate.
You can see here* that Lucid, LinenSpa, and Malouf are all listed on the CertiPur site.
ADMIN NOTE: *Removed 404 link|Archived Footprint: certipur.us/pages/for-consumers/find-products/
When I look at the product description here I only see a single layer of ventilated memory foam not a two ply layer. I think that the picture you are referring to is the one that shows the topper sitting on top of a mattress which is a common image that is used for a topper. I think most people would realize that they are only purchasing a topper not the mattress underneath it and that the two together would be more than 3". The mattress also isnât part of the specific description page which shows just the topper.
The picture does show a âwhiteâ product and if yours is yellow and the color is important to you then while this wouldnât be relevant to most people ⌠it is the only thing that I would call somewhat inaccurate.
Most of these comments are beside the point though because the bigger issue is that you have been accusing them of things that arenât reasonable or accurate and IMO they have gone out of their way to accommodate you by giving you a refund and yet in spite of this and instead of being grateful ⌠you are still trying to find more and more reasons to disparage them.
Phoenix
Yes, there is confusion with the âaboutâ page showing extremely general information about the host of products they are selling on their website. The fact that they essentially put âmemory foamâ on the same level as âbamboo charcoalâ (wtf is that anyways, some carbon product?), âgelâ (also, what is that - some other weird chemical material?), and âlatexâ. By laying these out on the same âlevelâ of âamazingnessâ that the âaboutâ page is implying, they are making viewers conclude that the âprettinessâ and âpurityâ of all of these materials is equally great and equally âpretty and pureâ. The about page DOES NOT make a connection with the product descriptions. Rather, it confuses.
In my past work experience, I have sat beside a marketing manager who had the task of whipping up some kind of marketing copy for a luxury spa brochure at a luxury spa I used to work at years ago. She laboured over banging out the same buzzwords like âantioxidantsâ ârelaxingâ ârejuvenatingâ ârevitalizingâ ânaturalâ and more about these negligible âantioxidantsâ over and over again in her tired marketing copy, seeking to maintain a level of consistency that basically sought to convince the reader that the spa uses ânaturalâ and âantioxidantâ rich materials. Meanwhile, the stockist who dealt directly with the suppliers of these ânatural, antioxidantâ containing products, assured me herself that there ainât nothing antioxidizing about many of these things, despite their catchy product names. Especially when she laughingly read me the ingredient list to contain nothing antioxidizing, rather something synthetic you would buy at a drug store. These clients were expected to pay top dollar for spa services featuring products that were extremely below the hype and below the value and quality of the marketing copy that misrepresented them on the website/brochure. I am talking about hundreds of dollars. (Also, I might add that many clients complained of some kind of âreactionâ to the over hyped spa products used on them during the proceduresâŚclearly they were not well formulated or adequately ânaturalâ as proclaimed in the buzz-word laden marketing copy. The spa was then obligated to issue a âcompâ for future services to apologize).
This is the exact same thing that his happening here. The Lucid website lacks transparency and clarity. It groups itâs materials on one page using the same language to describe them all and equates them all to each other as if they were existing on the same level of âprettinessâ and âpurityâ. The site is a victim of a marketerâs loose grasp of the English language, and an unclear understanding of the properties of the materials they are attempting to sing an ode to, and otherwise describe so glowingly on the website. It is pure HYPE, and zero substance. Interestingly, the website quotes the toppers being priced at around $400. When they were priced well below that (under $100) on Amazon.ca, marked down âon saleâ. I would argue they are worth even less than that, knowing that they are actually 100% polyurethane foam. Much in the same way that the actual spa products used in the hundred dollar services, were quite worthless and not special in the least.
Furthermore, yes, the glaring misrepresentation of the actual colour of the product on their website: it being shown as âpureâ and âpretty whiteâ, when in fact it is a yucky yellow foamâŚyes, that is a glaring misrepresentation. Imagine how difficult it would be to sell a yucky, yellow foam topper.
I have to say, this reminds me of the same attempts made by Essentia to appear âpureâ and âprettyâ online. And yet somehow you have more against them than you have against Lucid? Strange. Both engage in misleading marketing copy. Both are relying on sweeping, generalized or incomplete statements about their products, that may or may not be 100% accurate (theyâre not).
Like Steven said, the misleading marketing copy is writing about what (some) the products are made of, not about what theyâre not made ofâŚthe misleading nature of which he admittedly apologized for.
But I donât expect them to go above and beyond to correct their misleading website. That would entail having to pay another marketing copy writer to bang out some more tired verbage using more ridiculous buzz words to make it sound adequately âprettyâ and âpureâ.
***EDIT: In fairness to the company (Lucid/Malouf Marketing Inc.), I decided to make this edit to say that they offered to refund me the money after speaking them over the phone, and apologized if their website had misled me in any way to believe the mattress topper was made of something it wasnât. Their product is not âbadâ for the entire population, just for some people, like me. I must also add that after becoming ill from VOC exposure/toxicity, I must also include under my suspicion, both of the Twin XL Simmons and Sealy mattresses that were bought just prior to purchasing the Lucid mattress topper - both mattresses are made of some kind of polyurethane foam and/or memory foam, and both emit a chemical smell. I am most likely one of the few people in the population that is especially chemically sensitive to VOCs and industrial glues, agents, flame retardants, etc. and just because I have had a bad reaction to this/these product/s does not rule it out from anyone else purchasing it and not having a problem with it.
***I would just like to say: if you have a history of being allergic or reactive to industrial chemicals like cleaners, emissions, or anything with offensive vapors and chemicals, like generic home cleaning solutions or cleaning sprays or air fresheners or detergents or soaps, for example, then I would strongly urge you to rethink purchasing ANY mattress product with âmemory foamâ or any kind of industrial polyurethane foam product. Even though you canât smell the sources of all VOCs, your reaction and natural aversion to the above things are, in my opinion, a good indicator of your chemical sensitivity.
[quote=â1whitehorse1â post=44107]If Lucid has a âcenti-purâ certification, why donât they stick it on their website? Why donât they tell the public their memory foam has received a certificate declaring that it has, by someoneâs rough standard, âlow VOCsâ - not NO VOCs, just the âlowâ ones that appeared on this so called test. Oh but wait, that might alert people to the fact that memory foam is not âpureâ and âprettyâ like their bamboo, gel and latex descriptions. It might alert people to the fact that this stuff is synthetic, and not natural, that this stuff is man made, not from nature, and that this stuff poses some kind of potential minor to moderate health risk? No, I can see why they wouldnât want to distract from the âprettinessâ and âpurityâ of the picture theyâve already painted in the viewerâs mind.
[/quote]
From the FAQ section of the topper you linked:
How do I know this product is safe?
The foam in our mattresses is CertiPUR-USÂŽ certified, which means this product has been independently tested for content of materials used, physical performance, and environmental stewardship. Careful construction guarantees no prohibited phthalates, no ozone depleters, no CFCs, no mercury, lead or heavy metals, no formaldehyde, no PBDEs, and low emission (VOCs) for indoor air quality.
It seems like you are mad at them because you didnât do the initial research on your purchase. Most of the things you said are misleading are in the âaboutâ section. Why didnât you look specifically at the product you were buying? If Iâm buying a Ford Focus, Iâm not going to read the Ford about section that might mention the companies best in class towing capacity, or super efficient hybrid gas mileage and assume that it applies to every car they make. I would look at the specifics of the car I was buying.
You are correct. They are centi-pur certified. I missed that information on their FAQ page.
Hi 1whitehorse1,
Itâs the same general type of material as you will find in water purifiers.
See post #4 here.
Neither of these are relevant to this topic though because if you had done even minimal research or reading when you purchased your topper you would have known that neither of these are in the topper you purchased.
The reasons for my replies here are not because I believe Lucid is a great product but because of your exaggerations and misrepresentations about what they are saying and because your posts are not reasonable or balanced or what I would consider to be âfair commentaryâ. In effect ⌠you are doing the very thing that you are claiming that they are doing.
The goal of this site is to educate and inform based on accurate information and while I would certainly be cautious about purchasing a Lucid memory foam product and itâs not a purchase that I would personally make ⌠that doesnât mean that I would support someone that is posting inaccurate or misleading information about them (or any company regardless how I may feel about them). In effect ⌠you are doing the very thing that you are saying that Lucid is doing by making statements that are just factually wrong and misleading or complaining about things that any reasonable consumer would have realized with only minimal research (as Benstark also mentioned).
Did you seriously believe that memory foam is some kind of ânaturalâ product?
While I can certainly sympathize with you for your experience (and as I mentioned earlier I have had a similar experience with another memory foam product) ⌠I think you may have lost your perspective and your sensitivity to memory foam certainly doesnât justify the type or misinformation, exaggeration, or inaccurate statements that you are posting here.
You have had your say and I think that any reasonable person can make up their own mind about what you have written.
This topic is now locked. (NOTE ADDED: the topic has now been unlocked to allow for some edits and a change to a less âinflammatoryâ title that the OP requested which have a more âfair and balancedâ approach)
Phoenix
Formaldehyde is in your food, your air, your drinking water, etc. Because itâs more or less ever-present, test results showing levels consistent with normal ambient levels in no way indicates formaldehyde is used in a product. Please donât spout conspiracy pseudoscience.