Memory Foam over latex DIY help (help with aerus+, and solid latex cores In king size)

I am making a king bed for me and my wife (both mid 20s 5’8’’ and 5’10’’ and 160 and 170lbs back and side sleepers) we have gone around to a lot of the local mattress stores and decided we like a firm bed, she also is very adamant that she wants a 3 inch memory foam topper. She tends to sleep hot and I was concerned about this, right now I am leaning towards a Aerus + 3 inch topper for 399$ which is quite spendy, if anyone has any experience with this or other high density cooling memory foams I would really appreciate some feed back on what works and if it is worth the price. The second thing I need help on is determining the firmness of the support layers, we both want a firm mattress (comparable in firmness to temper contour supreme) and I am fairly confident I want a 100% natural dunlop for the rest of the mattress though I am open to other ideas. Right now I am considering two 3" 44 ILD layers from sleep on latex. Is 44 ILD directly below 3 inches of 5lb memory foam going to be too firm (I know this is relative, but I guess I am asking would it be much more firm than a ‘firm mattress we would find in a store)’? We do want a firm mattress but I have not been able to find comparable ILD latex in person and dont have a very good idea what 44 ILD actually feels like. Is 6 inches under 3 inches of memory foam enough to offer a good sleep surface or should I consider one to two inch softer latex transition layer?

My wife mentioned a preference to have a 6" solid core as apposed to two 3 inch layers, the only place I can find this in a king size is latexmattressfactory.com, and foamorder.com,
they cost 1050$, and 900$ respectively, foamorder seems to have a some what finicky return policy that makes me nervous to order from them, but I also dont want to spend an extra 150 dollars if I dont have to especially with the added cost of the memory foam topper.

I know this has likely been covered before and I am trying to read through the available information and posts, but I would appreciate any input

I went ahead and made a order, I ordered from latexmattressfactory 3" medium 28ILD, sleep on latex firm 44IL, sleepwarehouse 3 inch aerus + 5lb memory foam. All three have return policies and I think there is room to add another 3 inch layer. It came out to about 1100. mug5 at latexmattressfactory 5% off. I got a 5% discount at sleepwarehouse from a very nice person on the phone. I will post updates. I am still looking for input if anyone has any

HI Frrst,

You have quite a few questions here, so I’ll do my best to consolidate some of the information for which you were searching. I don’t mind helping to gather the information for you!

[quote]I am making a king bed for me and my wife
decided we like a firm bed
she also is very adamant that she wants a 3 inch memory foam topper
I am leaning towards a Aerus + 3 inch topper for 399$ which is quite spendy, if anyone has any experience with this or other high density cooling memory foams I would really appreciate some feed back on what works and if it is worth the price.[/quote]

There is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I’m aware of and a link to the online suppliers that have good exchange/return policies as well (just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

I don’t have any specific suggestions or recommendations because you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress/topper combination and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion about which topper would be the best “match” for both you and the mattress you are using it on in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal testing or sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

If a mattress/topper combination turns out to be a good “match” for you in terms of "comfort and PPP then it also has the advantage of being able to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper foam layers in the mattress (which is very likely because the upper layers of a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time and a topper can also help extend the useful life of the mattress underneath it as well.

Regarding cooling memory foam claims, you can read more about phase change materials in post #9 here and at the end of post #4 here) and you can read more about the various different types of gel foams in post #2 here. In general terms gel foams will tend to have a temporary effect on temperature while you are first going to sleep until temperatures equalize but have less effect on temperature regulation throughout the course of the night.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). And since you are using a latex core (a high quality material that is very different form the polyfoam core used in most memory foam beds), you’re already creating quite a bit of a different product from the start.

[quote]Right now I am considering two 3" 44 ILD layers from sleep on latex. Is 44 ILD directly below 3 inches of 5lb memory foam going to be too firm (I know this is relative, but I guess I am asking would it be much more firm than a ‘firm mattress we would find in a store)’.
Is 6 inches under 3 inches of memory foam enough to offer a good sleep surface or should I consider one to two inch softer latex transition layer?[/quote]

There are also no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

And of course there is absolutely no way I would be able to predict what is a “good sleep” for one individual over another for the reasons I previously listed.

There would be little if any practical difference between two 3" support layers and a single 6" support layer if they were all the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD and were inside a tight fitting cover with 3" inches of latex of the same ILD on top of them. Two 3" layers would respond a little more independently and because the elasticity of the top 3" wouldn’t be connected and “pulling back” on the bottom 3" when it compresses and “in theory” it may act a little bit softer but in practical and real life terms most people wouldn’t notice any difference in terms of performance or firmness. If a single 6" core with a 3" comfort layer was a good match for you in terms of PPP then there would be little benefit in having multiple 3" layers that were the equivalent ILD.

Also in “theory only” … two 3" layers that were exactly the same ILD as a single 6" layer could be less durable over the course of a long lifetime because they will act more independently and abrade each other slightly but I don’t think that any difference would be significant or even measurable in “real life” terms and the other factors that affect durability (see post #4 here) such as the firmness of the layers would play a much bigger role. It certainly wouldn’t be a concern of mine.

Multiple layers would have more options for fine tuning though both before and after a purchase because for example a support core with a medium over firm layer would be a little firmer than a medium layer and a little softer than a firm layer (closer to the medium) and you would also have the option to rearrange the layers to firm over medium which would still be in between a medium and firm 6" layer but closer to the firm. You could also use the softer top layer in the middle to create a firmer feel compared to having the soft on top. The main advantage of having more layers in other words is that for those who need it it can provide more options to customize the layer combinations either before a purchase or by rearranging or exchanging layers after a purchase. While this is attractive to some people … it can also add some complexity that may not be necessary or may not justify any extra costs involved in having more layers for others.

Outside of a mattress with more layers having more options to customize the mattress, if a mattress is a good match for you, then one isn’t inherently any better than the other.

[quote]I can find this in a king size is latexmattressfactory.com, and foamorder.com,
they cost 1050$, and 900$ respectively, foamorder seems to have a some what finicky return policy that makes me nervous to order from them, but I also dont want to spend an extra 150 dollars if I dont have to especially with the added cost of the memory foam topper[/quote]

When you’re not able to try a product in person, the best source for information will be a phone call to the manufacturer so that you can speak with a knowledgeable representative who will have your best interests at heart. They will have the best knowledge of their products and how they might compare to others on the market. Additionally, when ordering online, you’ll want to be comfortable with the return/exchange of any online company before you place an order.

Latexmattressfactory.com is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. I do think highly of foamorder.com in general as well.

It seems that you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources, so the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well.

For those who decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and “match” every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or alternatively use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here).

You certainly are considering the use of some high quality componentry, but it seems that quite a bit of what you are considering is more “in theory” and not much from actual testing of componentry. DIY mattresses can be quite an adventure. :wink:

I look forward to learning about what direction you choose to pursue. I hope amalgamating this information is helpful for you.

Phoenix

My sleep on latex , 100% natural dunlop latex 3" topper (firm ~44ILD) showed up today! it measures (78.5x76x3.1) so almost a inch and a half short one one side. It looks to be in good condition no obvious issues. It is softer than I was expecting and it smells better too. Knowing how soft this is I may have chosen to just get 6"inches of 44ILD latex below the memory foam topper. I cant wait for the rest of it to show up!

I also got the Soft Heaven Mattress Cover - Luxury Organic Cotton - All Around Zipper - Non Skid Bottom form amazon, it is less stretchy than I thought but feels very soft… So far I would recommend both of these !

I will update again when everything comes together

Hi Frrst,

I look forward to your comments once you’ve had a chance to try out your mattress for a while.

Congratulations on your new mattress (or at least part of it)!

Phoenix

So I have the entire mattress assembled 3" 44 ILD latex under 3" 28 ILD latex under 3" of Aerus + memory foam. All on a classic brand adjustable base. It is very comfortable, the middle layer made a huge difference in the feel of the mattress.

My general impressions of each layer are that the 2 latex layers are less firm than I was expecting (based on nothing but what I had read) and the memory foam layer is much more firm than I was expecting. I swear going by feel alone, the supposedly 14 ILD memory foam layer feels almost as firm as the 28 ILD latex layer.

One other thing I didn’t expect was that the cotton mattress sleeve and bed protector I am using really effect the feel of the mattress. I think they really limits the feel that the memory foam would otherwise contribute to the mattress. I am considering removing the case or finding a different one. overall I am very happy and my wife is very impressed and happy. It was a really fun project and came together amazingly easily. I am impressed with the quality of everything I received.

The medium layer I received from latex mattress factory was seemed which i wasn’t expecting ( I thought dunlop king sizes didn’t have to be seemed). This isn’t an issue since It looks to be well done and uniform. I also thought it was worth mentioning that latex mattress factory had far and away the best packaging of any of the products I received, the latex came completely sealed in like 4 layers of thick plastic in very thick cardboard box that was basically bolted shut (about 1000 shipping staples and layers of tape).

I already mentioned this above but the memory foam is very firm to the point it feel supportive. I am 5’10" tall and 160 lbs (male) with wide shoulder so your millage may vary, but when laying flat on my back the only part of my body that really feels like it is bottoming out the memory foam is my hips. My legs, shoulder, back, and head dont even get close to sinking through the top layer. If anyone has any feedback on their experience with a 3 inch layer of memory foam I would love to hear it, for comparison sake.

Hi Frrst,

Congratulations on having everything in place with your new mattress. :cheer:

This is why I always mention that your own careful testing is the most important thing in determining the actual feel of a product, and of course the overall feel of a finished product difference form individual components. Visco-elastic memory foam ILD/IFD measurements are difficult to compare with other foams, as memory foam can be greatly affected by rate sensitivity, temperature and humidity. This article from the Polyurethane Foam Association describes some of the challenges in measuring IFD for memory foam.

The mattress covering and protector/pad are two things that people often overlook in the overall feel of the mattress. A tight or more rigid casing will limit the “feel” of the upper comfort layers of a mattress and can inhibit their point elasticity.

I’m glad you enjoyed your DIY process and went about it in the proper frame of mind. A mattress building adventure!

Dunlop can be made in king-sized molds, but not all manufacturers will do so. Seams generally are non-obtrusive, but if it is a factor in someone’s decision making process, they should always speak with a foam supplier before placing an order to inquire as to how their stock is made.

It’s always nice when your product arrives as it was sent. I’ve experienced some very “basic” packaging from some large brands (the boxing on king mattresses from Pure Talalay Bliss immediately come to mind), and it’s nice when the same amount of care is taken in preparing your product for shipment as was taken in manufacturing.

[quote]

I already mentioned this above but the memory foam is very firm to the point it feel supportive. I am 5’10" tall and 160 lbs (male) with wide shoulder so your millage may vary, but when laying flat on my back the only part of my body that really feels like it is bottoming out the memory foam is my hips. My legs, shoulder, back, and head dont even get close to sinking through the top layer. If anyone has any feedback on their experience with a 3 inch layer of memory foam I would love to hear it, for comparison sake
[/quote].

I’m glad you enjoy the feel. Realize that the overall “support” you feel and “lack of bottoming out” is a function of the complete mattress system and all of the layers working together. Additionally, the memory foam may feel a bit softer as it warms up a bit, and also as it “breaks in” and some of the initial “false firmness” is gone. Other people’s experiences can be quite different from yours, as they can have different combinations underneath their memory foam tops. Additionally, what other people feel is subjective and their somatotypes differ from yours as well. But a combination like you chose is popular for those who want the durability, breathability and support provided by latex, but with a surface comfort of memory foam. And most importantly, it feels good to you!

I’ll be interested in hearing your comments on your completed mattress in the future once you’ve had a chance to sleep on it a bit.

Phoenix

Just a quick update, The mattress is wonderful the memory foam continues to feel very firm (for memory foam) and me and my wife are over the moon about how much better we are sleeping. 10/10 from us. Would be more than happy to answer questions if anyone is looking at any of the products I used.

Hi Frrst,

I’m glad that your initial impressions are happy ones with your new mattress. :cheer:

I hope you’ll visit again and share your feedback once you’ve had the chance to use your mattress for a longer period of time.

Phoenix