Technically, petroleum is a natural product, so some SBR Talalay is labeled ānatural.ā
Sand and seashells made me snort. I work in communications/advertising. I wonder if there are some butterfly sneezes in there too?
Blended talalay can feel softer than NR (natural rubber, no sand or seashells) even in the same ILDs.
I live in a small town and our local mattress retailer briefly carried this bed and other BB models. That surprised me, as I thought they were strictly an internet brand. You might see if itās available to try in a showroom.
I have to say Iāve never seen any latex described with sand and seashells as the filler. That is kind of funny, But also very mattress industryish marketing. The telly late text they use is the blended version which is 30% natural 70% synthetic. Theyāre just trying a little too hard to talk about the fillers which tell a global has used in the latex forever.
The funniest part is the āfillerā commonly used by some latex manufacturers is āsilicaā which is actually Silicon dioxide, most commonly found in nature as quartz and in various living organisms. In many parts of the world, silica is the major constituent of sand. BB uses the talalay latex made by Talalay Global in Connecticut and this is a high-quality comfort layer in any mattress.
Thanks for the post and the question, and thank you sweetandsourkiwi (now a latex expert) always good information added.
I canāt seem to figure out how to open up a new topic in general, so Iām bumping this one.
Is Brooklyn Bedding still considered a good place to buy a mattress? I live local to them (same state, one town over) and was able to stop in and test out their mattresses in the Tucson Showroom.
my wife and I have lower back issues and the Serta iComfort mattress we have crapped the bed in 3 years and weāve been limping on it ever since. Time for a new mattress and we were looking at Brooklyn Bedding in town. We really liked the new āPlankā mattress as itās SUPER firm and really comfortable, but the info we have and the salesman mentioned that a pure foam mattress (the plank is pure poly foam with a 1.5 inch Titan Foam top layer) doesnāt last as long for a āheavierā couple like we are (Iām 6ā2, the wife is 6ā0 and both about 230 lbs) as a hybrid mattress. As such we looked at several others and really liked the Bowery Hybrid as a close second. the āSignatureā one seemed nicer than the Bowery in terms of a higher tier up, but it was TOO soft, even in the firmer modes. I could feel the curve in my back and neither my wife or I liked it without a wedge pillow. The Bowery Hybrid is a second choice, but from what I gather should last a bit longer due to the coils hybrid system vs. the pure foam of the Plank.
I noticed there was a lot of a chatter on Brooklyn Bedding being great a few years back, but nothing in the last year or so, so I wanted to check in and see if they were GTG.
Brooklyn Bedding is still a very well known manufacturer of many other online brands, sells to mattress retailers, and of course, has its own online brand. I am familiar with their new showroom in Phoenix. They are not one of our trusted members but we would not have anything negative to say about them at TMU. I would certainly recommend you go there and try mattresses and maybe even go to their other locations and research more.
Iām not sure what youāve read since you found the site but just in case you havenāt read it yet ā¦ the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial , which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ā¦ and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones and learn just enough to recognize a product using better quality materials or a retailer that is knowledgeable and honest so that you may trust the information youāre presented.
Another important link in the tutorial, if you have time youāve read, is Post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best āmatchā for you in terms of ācomfortā, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped.
Thanks for posting and come back if you have any other questions, or update with your choices.
thanks, I just wanted to make sure they werenāt a āshunnedā retailer at the moment.
Iāve been in and out of their showroom 3x this last week testing mattresses and have come down to those two as my final two. Iāll have to call them up to find out about the foam densities as my bmi is just slightly over 30 (more like 31 atm) to figure out if the Plankās pure foam would work vs. the bowery hybrid.
I really liked āThe Signatureā (used to be BME) for the extra durability of Latex foam and coils, but it didnāt support my lower back very well (or my wifeās) and even the firm was on the ālow endā of firmness for our liking, even though it seemed to be the ānicerā mattress in terms of construction. Ah well.
@wormraper - If youād like some additional alternatives, Nest Bedding who is a Trusted Member of TMU also has a showroom in Phoenix and (most if not all of) their mattresses are manufactured for them by BB. They have some unique designs different than those at BB, so you might find another choice there which may be worth your time to investigate. https://mattressunderground.com/list-all/latex-all-latex/item/nest-bedding.html
Iāll see if I can make it up to Phx. I donāt get there that often but if I do Iāll take a peak. Iām super leary about buying one sight unseen as my sports injuries make me much more picky the closer and closer I get to 40 lol.
FYI - Nest Bedding also has locations in Scottsdale and Surprise AZ if those are closer to you. All of their showroom locations are listed on their website.
Itās good that you are able to continue to test mattresses, and I understand the Signature and your lower back. Good idea and calling the for the density information. I am sure you have probably read this but these durability guidelines are a good guide as you make your choice.
Hey WormRaper, if you can go to Pheonix, there are a TON of great (and TMU approved) manufacturers there. If I could travel to one city in the US to buy a mattress, Pheonix would be it.
and as for the Plank I called in and got the ILD ratings as well as lb ratings for the foam density
the base poly foam is 50 ild with a 1.8 lb per ft density
the top titan foam on the ultra firm side is 50 ild with a 1.5 lb density
and the āplush firmā side is 36 ild with a 1.5 lb density.
which if my readings from the tutorials are correct, means itās basically at the āmiddle of the roadā for a person with a bmi of 31 ā¦am I correct or am I reading it wrong ??? (itās a flippable mattress and the core is 1.8, which was the recommended min density, but the top 1.5 and 2 inch foam layers on either side are 1.5, so Iām not sure if thatās ok or not)
Phoenix is totally a mecca in the mattress world, but manufacturing and retailā¦ itās kind of strange, but growing city, good for business, etc. etc. Plus for many small businesses, I have heard many many times, that moving from LA to Phonix happens a lot, just too expensive to do business in CAā¦but thatās another conversation for a different forum.
Thanks for the update on the Plank mattress. You are correct with the min. for BMI 30 or more, would be the 1.8lb. I would be cautious with the 1.5lb top layers, these will definitely break down relatively quickly, especially being so close to the body, top of the mattress.
good to know. we ordered the plank anyways as it was still one of the better deals that I could find. Most everything else was below 3 lbs for mem foam, or 1.5lbs or LESS for poly foam. At least unless I wanted to add 50-100% of our budget for something else (we just purchased a car last week, so spending more than $999 for the mattress was out of the question). Weāll see how it goes as the Plank was the closest to āoptimalā specs as we could get for our budget
Really good points, and please donāt take our āguidelinesā to mean you "willā have a problem, you did the due diligence and made a decision with a lot more information than 95% of shoppers, so kudos to youā¦and as you mentioned ābudgetā is critical to all consumers, fundamental to the buying process,. Congrats on your new mattress.
Anytime you have any questions, we look forward to hearing from you.
Could you help me understand your reply about the seashells a bit better? I have been trying to find more info on this very question and this is the only place where I see it has come up. Am I understanding the following correctly?
When it comes down to it, the latex BB is using is a blend of natural (rubber tree sap) and synthetic (the shells, etc.).
BB is getting its latex from Talalay Global, which means they also use this same blend of natural/synthetic.
Despite the above, you still feel that this is high quality latex.
Am I right on all three accounts? Two follow up questions. First, what is the precise question to ask companies when trying to determine if the latex is 100% rubber tree sap, or if it has other components? I have read through the guides but am still a bit fuzzy on the intricacies here, and sometimes their responses about 100% natural leave me hesitant to continue questioning it (because Iām not confident in my knowledge). Second, if you do feel this blended latex is still high quality, where do you draw the line on what is high quality? Meaning, is a partially synthetic blend totally fine with respect to feel and durability when the blend is made of certain materials, but not when itās made of others? I have been running the other way when I hear āsynthetic,ā but if there are some types of synthetics that donāt make a difference, that might keep a few mattresses on my list.
Thanks for the message. I looked back on the earlier post, and I do reference silica, a filler used by some manufacturers. Sea shells? I thought maybe you are making a joke, but instead, my apologies if I have miscommunicated something.
Regarding latex (rubber) ā¦ there are two different types of raw materials that are used to make latex foam. Each of these materials can be used to make a foam using two different foaming processes.
The raw material used to make latex foam is either natural latex which actually comes from the rubber tree and synthetic latex which is made from SBR (styrene-butadiene). Many latex foams are made from a blend of the two (such as 70% SBR and 30% Natural latex or NR). Natural latex is more elastic and stretchy. SBR is more abrasion resistant and can be made more resistant to aging degradation. It is also easier to work with in terms of consistency. NR is more expensive than SBR. Blends are often used for reasons of cost, desirable combinations of certain latex qualities, and ease of working with the material. NR is often used for its natural qualities and because it is more elastic and resilient.
The two different methods used to make the foams are the Dunlop process (the original method) and the Talalay process (a newer more high tech method although it has been used for decades). The Dunlop process has two main variations and one is made in a mold and the other is made with a continuous pour method on a moving belt.
Talalay latex is made by two manufacturers and they absolutely make very high-quality products, Radium Foam and Talalay Global.
No, as I explained above.
Brooklyn Bedding gets both Blended and 100% natural from multiple suppliers. Yes, Talalay Global is one of their suppliers.
It is a fact that Talalay from Talalay Global is a high-quality latex.
Regarding the last paragraph about precise questions to ask, I totally understand that it is confusing. I am also saying blended is good quality in terms of durability and pressure relief, but some people are opposed to having synthetic products of any kind, and I totally respect that opinion. I am neutral on preference and just try to discuss more of the benefits of all latex products.
I would ask a few questions. For starters there are two basic questionsā¦1.Process - Dunlop or Talalay, 2. Formula - either blended or 100% natural. People like to use words like āmade with natural latexā trying to hide the fact they use blended latex in their mattress. Then you may be able to ask where do they source the latex? and Who is the latex producer?
Of course as always ask about the density and ILD of the latex they are using.
People like to talk about all different arcane questions about fillers and very specific %'s, there is really no way to verify and it will get you mired in details that are not as important as Process, Formula, Density/ILDā¦and latex manufacturer if possible.
Please message back and I would be glad to help more in any way I can.
Thank you, Sensei, for the welcome and for the response! Please forgive me in advance if Iām still missing something obvious, but Iām still confused about what youād call these other types of fillers and how they specifically will affect the latex quality.
To recap, on 2/28/19 The Toddler wrote:
Your response on 3/1/19 was:
(As I mentioned, it might be that Iām reading your response incorrectly)
In your response to me today, you stated:
However, Iām still stuck on my original question - what does this mean specifically with respect to the BB foam? I had been strongly considering the Bloom Hybrid mattress, but became concerned about the latex after I chatted with a customer service agent (maybe 2-3 weeks ago?). I asked about the latex they use and got this response: āOur Bloom Hybrid mattress is made with high-quality Talalay latex foam, this is 30% natural latex and 70% natural fillers such as sand, ground seashells, etc. By mixing the synthetic material along with the natural materials it actually makes the latex more durable and longer lasting. It doesnāt affect the cooling of the mattress nor change the firmness compared to 100% organic. By using the synthetic materials we are able to make the latex Class 1 Oeko-Tex certified which means it is safe for babies.ā
I couldnāt find anyone else trying to find out more about this specifically except for the post here from TheToddler. To finally clear everything up, would you say that the statement the rep made about ā70% natural fillersā in the BB foam is actually just code for SBR? Or, is there a third option that you didnāt mention? Is this perhaps more of a natural alternative to SBR, not using rubber tree sap but maybe using fewer chemicals or materials?
Either way, will this latex (with only 30% actual rubber tree sap) hold up well in the long run as compared to all natural latex, or should I remove this BB mattress from my list of options (as if I were to find it was a low density memory foam as opposed to a memory foam > 4.0lbs, for example)? My primary concern is the durability, not the chemicals. I only switched to looking (and paying) for mattresses with latex after reading how much more durable it is, but if this 30% blend with other stuff is inferior, Iād rather move on.
Thanks for asking again, no worries at all. The problem with the quoted description is its just not written well and makes everything more confusing. The Talalay latex that BB uses is Talalay Globals classic blended Talalay. It is not something new or different, the issue is the Bloom description trying to spin the formula in a better light, as they worry about using the word synthetic.
It should read like my edited version:
Our Bloom Hybrid mattress is made with high-quality Talalay latex foam, this is 30% natural latex and 70% Synthetic latex [strike]natural fillers such as sand, ground seashells, etc[/strike]. By mixing the synthetic material along with the natural materials it actually makes the latex more durable and longer lasting. It doesnāt affect the cooling of the mattress nor change the firmness [strike]compared to 100% organic[/strike]. [strike]By using the synthetic materials we are able to make the latex Class 1 Oeko-Tex certified which means it is safe for babies."[/strike]
Yes, the statement is code for SBR, but it is bad code for SBR. Blended Talalay is most often used because it can create a more durable foam than 100% natural Talalay ā¦ especially in the softer versions ILDās.
I am leaning towards the plank in my search for a firm mattress and am wondering if youād be willing to share your feedback of owning the mattress for a year now?
