Thank you for the mattress suggestion! I added it to my list to consider. The list is growing!
I also appreciate your feedback on having a firm foundation. I am heading that direction as well. Do you think 1/4 " plywood on the slats is better than just removing the slats and putting a regular foundation on the frame? Removing the slats still leaves two vertical and one horizontal crossbeam on the frame. Also, I don’t know if I can find a solid piece of 1/4 " plywood that’s as large as my king size frame. I see 4ft x 8ft online at Home Depot, which is still smaller than a King bed frame dimensions (~76" x 80"). Would it be sufficient to have two pieces of plywood side-by-side to make up the correct area? Lastly, plywood doesn’t really breathe. Would I be risking a mold problem?
It would not provide good ventilation under the mattress so the chances of mold would be increased yes although by itself it may not be enough to present an issue depending on the other risk factors involved. There is more in post #10 here.
I would always use a mattress protector on a mattress. A mattress cover is part of the design of a mattress and is meant to keep all the parts of the mattress together and depending on the type can be a significant part of the feel and performance of the mattress. A mattress protector on the other hand is meant to protect the mattress from body fluids, accidents, and skin cells, and to keep your sleeping surface clean and hygienic. It’s much easier to remove and clean a mattress protector than a mattress cover. It also protect your warranty because even a small stain on a mattress (including a water stain) can void your warranty.
Which protector is best for you depends on which of the tradeoffs are more important to you.
A mattress pad is a different product once again and includes some kind of padding as part of its construction. While some of them will also protect the mattress they are designed to add some kind of cushioning to the mattress which can help to fine tune the performance of the mattress if you need it. A mattress protector is designed to have the least possible effect on the mattress while a mattress pad is designed to affect the feel and/or performance of the mattress.
The ideal solution is a foundation but if that is too high for your new mattress with it being a platform bed than 2 pieces of plywood would suffice as long as the slats are study and you have at least 2 center legs under the bed. You are correct about the breathability of plywood although it shouldn’t be a problem, there are many different types of bed that have a solid bottom.
I purchased a similar frame to yours except mines was queen size. I ran into problems with the support legs breaking. You can see my thread and solution ---- > here
I read your entire thread! There’s quite a lot of useful information there. I do think your frame was fairly similar. Mine is just larger because it’s a king, and it has 6 total support legs screwed in. I do believe it might break as yours did. I discussed taking the slats out and using a foundation on the (otherwise brand new) frame with my fiancee, and he doesn’t want to consider it. He wants to try the slats first. We’ll see if we can even try that depending on the warranty/return policy of whatever mattress we do select.
Regarding my mattress search, I haven’t been able to get out to the stores yet, and we’re bracing for a winter storm, so it could be a few days. I clicked through the list of online retailers here to look for more mattresses to consider and landed on this post about Dr Rick. I was intrigued by the discussion of SelectABed and more specifically the various mattresses to consider. According to Phoenix, the Tempflow line “is exceptionally high quality and breathable”. I tried contacting TempFlow because prices aren’t listed on their site, and got some quotes and recommendations for mattresses based on our data (height, weight, softness preference, cooling properties, etc).
The prices are definitely higher than most others I’ve looked at, probably too high. I’ll write it here, and I’m sure Phoenix will edit it out if it’s some sort of violation of the rules to discuss quotes. I was first recommended the Celestia model, and that sounds right to me. I was quoted $2995 for an Eastern King. Probably a good deal for such excellent materials, but I didn’t want to go that high. When I asked for something in a lower price range, I was recommended the Flexia for $2195. That’s around the right price, but the mattress description sounds a bit firm. We did want something that felt soft. Then again, we might need the extra support given our weight/height ranges (5ft7 175 lbs and 5ft10 220 lbs respectively). I’ll keep it in mind as I test mattresses.
I read your entire thread! There’s quite a lot of useful information there. I do think your frame was fairly similar. Mine is just larger because it’s a king, and it has 6 total support legs screwed in. I do believe it might break as yours did. I discussed taking the slats out and using a foundation on the (otherwise brand new) frame with my fiancee, and he doesn’t want to consider it. He wants to try the slats first. We’ll see if we can even try that depending on the warranty/return policy of whatever mattress we do select.[/quote]
I also considered trying to rebuild/repair the current bed, the main concern I had that bothered me was what if it wasn’t strong enough, or if it wasn’t supportive enough and failed even slightly would it be worth the risk of ruining the new mattress by causing it to sag and leaving a lasting impression in the core of the new mattress.
When we went through our transition from the broken frame to the new setup, it went through stages like this; Broken Frame and Old Mattress → Fixed Old Frame and Old Mattress → New Frame/Foundation and Old Mattress → New Frame/Foundation and New Mattress.
Well every stage gave the bed a distinct and obvious new feel, even with the old worn out mattress, a sag that we thought was caused by the old worn out memory foam was actually the old broken frame. JMO (Just My Opinion)… Just keep this in mind for the future that without the recommended or solid foundation, when you add your new mattress and some how it doesn’t feel the way you would like it to, it may or may not have something to do with the type and style of foundation and frame and you should add it into the equation when evaluating the PPP of the new mattress.
Example: Your new bed doesn’t feel supportive enough and your experiencing back pain, so you decide to exchange a softer comfort layer for a firmer one and you still are experiencing lower back pain. (Don’t exclude the fact that it maybe the foundation)
It hurt us to go out and spend additional money on a new metal frame and foundation but it is well worth it. The bed is now rock solid and free floats inside the headboard and footboard so its nice and quite. No more noise of the headboard banging against the wall :woohoo: .
Your heights and weight are very similar to T and I and we went with the 14 inch Hybrid and this thing weighed in at over 150 lbs add to it 220 and 180 that’s almost 500 lbs. I wasn’t about to take the risk! Like I said…JMO.
I agree with you that a sturdy frame/foundation makes a big difference! I’m just not the only person voting on the issue. I’ll continue pushing the idea. Thanks again.
I have no problem at all with quoting prices on the forum and it can certainly be helpful to others that are considering the same mattress … especially when they don’t have prices on their site
They are certainly good quality materials in terms of their properties and performance but in terms of durability they would be comparable to other memory foams of the same density.
I was able to do some more research over the weekend, so I’m reporting back my findings. Basically I’m still in the gathering information stage, but I can switch to down selecting at any time. It should also be mentioned that I spent rather a lot of time reading the tutorial posts. I might forget a thing or two, but I did read them at least once.
My goal for last weekend was to address the four local retailers that were close to my home. I called one and visited one, leaving two hypothetical stores on my list. I have little in-person shopping time available, so we’ll see how that goes. Because there are so many options available, one metric I’m using as a distinguishing factor is whether or not the mattresses contain any technology to reduce sleeping hot, even given the advice mentioned by Phoenix about how bedding and humidity affect sleeping hot. I feel like since I know I have a problem sleeping hot, I’d like to select a mattress that does something to compensate.
I called American Foam Center on Saturday and spoke to the owner, Robert. He was in a hurry but I was able to ask him some questions. He mentioned the materials he had - latex, memory foam, and polyfoam. I gave him my data and asked what kind of mattress he would recommend. He suggested 3" of memory foam topper (given that I said I wanted memory foam). He said he’s got 4 lb and 5 lb. He said the 5lb ends up costing about $2300 in a king size. He would use poly support layer that’s 1.8 lbs and firm - 45 ILD I think. The thickness of the entire mattress was something that Robert didn’t think was very important. He said what matters is how high you want the mattress to be. I described our platform bed. He also suggested using a 6 inch foundation, a 7 inch support layer, and a 3 inch memory foam comfort layer. He suggested AGAINST getting any mattress with a quilting layer built in. He said the quilting layer tends to give out (create indentations) and then isn’t replaceable. He suggests a mattress pad on top instead. He said with the mattresses he creates, the comfort layer can be replaced when it gives out, which he said would be around 5-10 years. He uses a cotton ticking - that’s all he mentioned when I asked about sleeping hot. I also asked about latex because I’m curious about exploring the option. He said it can be just as soft as memory foam but is more expensive. I forgot to ask about warranty and return policy. I mentioned I was referred through Mattress Underground. He said he’s been making mattresses for 30 years and “people” make it sound more difficult than it really is (that’s you, Phoenix :cheer: ). He doesn’t think foam has really changed that much over the years. Newer technology is not all that different.
Robert’s wife used to run the Fairfax, VA showroom until she passed away. He’s got a salesman in there that he said “isn’t his first choice.” He recommended my going up to Hagerstown, MD to visit him in the factory if I wanted detailed information about the mattress layers. He is thinking about closing the Fairfax location. For this reason and others (little attempt to reduce sleeping hot in these mattresses) I did not visit the Fairfax store in person.
Next, I called Urban Mattresses in Vienna, VA and spoke to the owner, Nathaniel. I asked him questions about the mattresses available in the store and did make it in to visit. I tried almost anything out of curiosity, because I haven’t done that in awhile. I was targeting the Evo ConformaCool by Sherwood. I tried the 5.0 and the 7.0 versions and liked the 7.0 pretty well. But then I tried the Tempur-Pedic Cloud Luxe again and liked that much better. It was my favorite mattress in the store. One difference seems to be that I seem to like thicker comfort layers because I have a chronically injured shoulder, and the thicker comfort layer mattresses do a better job of letting my shoulder sink in while still keeping my spine straight as I am laying on my side. That’s why I liked ConformaCool 7.0 ($2500) and Cloud Luxe (>$4000) best but those price points are a little high. I also liked the conforming feeling of the Cloud Luxe better than the ConformaCool. Other mattresses I tried had latex, and I still don’t prefer that material. I don’t like the springy feeling, but my fiancee did. He rated a hybrid latex-memory foam as his favorite with Cloud Luxe as #2. I am keeping it in mind since one option is to get a split mattress, but it’s typically cheaper to get one solid mattress than a split one and if the Cloud Luxe was #2 on his list then that’s still quite good.
Other research I did included going through the list of online retailers carefully. I pulled the data on any mattress that sounded good to me and compiled it into a spreadsheet, which you can view here. There could be some mistakes, and I am waiting on more info from Restava. One immediate comment is that I’m still not sure whether 4lb (like Cloud Luxe) or 5lb (longer lasting) comfort layer makes sense for me. Many mattresses on this list include both.
Other comments/questions:
I like to see manufacturers say they have the ability to switch out the comfort layer. I agree with Robert of American Foam Center on this. The comfort layer is more likely to wear out over time than the core. It also means I can choose a 4lb/Aerus foam that has better breathability and still feel like I can switch it out after the 4lb wears out. That’s one reason why I like Sleep Warehouse, even though they have little cooling technology. I also think FoamOrder might be able to do this.
I like the sounds of the Restava mattress and the price - but I’m not sure about the 1" firming foam on top. What’s that for?
Also given Robert’s comments about quilting layers, I am a more cautious. I really like the price on My Luxury Mattress (Elegant Bamboo) but I’m not sure about the 1.5" quilted bamboo. Bamboo as a material is good for breathability, but will the 1.5" have durability issues?
Even though I am able to spend around $2,000, it would be really nice to spend less. That’s why I’m suddenly more interested in Sleep Warehouse, Novosbed, and My Luxury Mattress. By default I would assume Select Foam and Brooklyn Bedding would both be great options for me, but they are on the higher end. It’s still possible, but I want to explore lower prices as well. Plus some of these (Novosbed, My Luxury Mattress) offer a free trial (Sleep Warehouse requires restocking fee). So I could try it and see if I like it with little risk. Also Novosbed is having a sale for the next 2 days, I thought I might mention that.
I had some trouble reading Rocky Mountain’s info. They top the Brighton 12" with a 2" Bayer Supersoft (IFD 10). Is that another one of those materials that might wear out quickly?
Those are my comments for now. Any feedback is appreciated!
Thanks for the feedback about your research so far
In most cases I think these types of overly broad or “catch all” types of comments are usually true in some cases and not in others. It would really depend on the thickness of the quilting layers, the quality and durability of the quilting materials, and on the reason they were included in the mattress design. I would agree that thicker quilting layers that use lower quality materials can be a weak link in a mattress design which is why I would be very cautious if there is 2" or more of lower quality less durable materials in the upper layers of a mattress (quilting or comfort layers). There is more about quilting layers in post #12 here and the posts it links to. There is also more about the factors that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here.
I think the biggest “change” in foam is that many manufacturers are using lower quality versions in their mattresses than they did a decade or more ago.
I also agree that many people make it more complex than it needs to be and in it’s essence all that’s really necessary is to make sure a mattress is a good match in terms of PPP, make sure you know there are no weak links in a mattress in terms of the quality and durability of the materials, and make some meaningful comparisons between mattresses. Unfortunately in today’s industry with all the spin and marketing rhetoric, smoke and mirrors, and misleading information that is the “norm” in the mainstream industry … something that could be very simple and would be if all retailers and manufacturers were transparent, knowledgeable, and put their customer’s interests above their own, has become much more difficult than it really should be. Hopefully a growing number of more educated consumers can begin to turn the tide towards putting quality and value first once again.
If you are considering a “split” design with memory foam on one side only and latex on the other then I would give some thought to this and your sleeping habits because memory foam is a slow response material and latex (and polyfoam) is a fast response material that are very different from each other and the transition in the center of the mattress between them may feel somewhat “odd” … although one person’s odd may be another person’s “perfect”.
There are similar options available that would have thicker layers of memory foam or a similar design at a lower cost but they may not be available locally so it may depend on how comfortable you are with an online purchase. If you do consider this then the return policy may also be important in case the mattress doesn’t have the same subjective “feel” that you are hoping for (you can read more about matching one mattress to another in post #9 here).
This is also a “feel” that I like in certain combinations (in my case my preference is a fairly thin 1" or 2" layer of latex over a fairly thin layer of latex over a good support layer.
That’s a great spreadsheet … thanks
As far as which combination of memory foam would work best for you it would really be a matter of personal preference and the parts of your personal value equation were most important to you. It would also depend on the specific properties of the memory foam and the mattress as a whole and which one was a better “match” in terms of PPP. If you are in a higher weight range I would tend to reduce or minimize the use of 4 lb memory foam in the top layer of a mattress (4 lb memory foam would be more durable underneath another foam layer).
Yes … a mattress will tend to soften, compress, and break down from the top down which is why the quality/durability of the materials in the upper layers (which is usually the weak link of a mattress) is so important. The ability to switch out the layers either with a manufacturer that can open up a mattress and replace them or with a mattress that has a zip cover and loose layers that can be removed and exchanged means you can replace a single layer without having to replace the entire mattress.
It creates a different “feel” and a little more resilient sleeping surface but it’s thin enough that the memory foam underneath it will still provide the response and feel of memory foam overall. They will be happy to give you more information about the specific design of their mattress when you talk with them on the phone (which I would always do with any online purchase).
The cover is bamboo fabric and the quilting would be polyfoam. A quilted layer that is “around an inch or so or less” (and I would put 1.5" at the upper end of the range) would not generally be a weak link in a mattress. Once you are at about 2" or more then the quality of the quilting foam would become an issue and I would want to know the density of the polyfoam. I believe they use 1.8 lb density which is in the good quality range for polyfoam but they can confirm this.
The supersoft foam is at least 1.8 lb density so it wouldn’t be a durability issue and I believe they may have an option for higher density quilting foam as well. Again they can confirm this when you talk with them on the phone.
To recap, I am looking for a mattress similar to the Cloud Luxe. I listened to everyone’s comments about this - that a 4lb comfort layer is less durable and not supportive enough at higher weight ranges. I have tried out and greatly disliked slow response foams in the 5lb region. So I was reluctant to try to buy a bed with a 5lb layer, even given that it is more durable.
My first attempt was to look through the above list of online retailers that had the ability to replace the comfort layer so I could purchase a memory foam bed with a 4lb comfort layer and merely replace it after it wore out. I investigated several to find out if they bond the layers of their mattress together (this makes it impossible to remove particular layers). Most of them said that approach is not recommended because the layers shift over time. The few that do not bond their layers together also didn’t typically have any measures to reduce sleeping hot, which is my particular bug-a-bear. I realized I would likely have to get a bed with bonded layers and should aim for something that mitigates sleeping hot. I looked again at my list of possible mattresses to start down-selecting.
I removed retailers from my list based on the following criteria:
Must have some ability to assist with cooling
Must have a >30 day return policy without extra fees since I’m buying online. The extra fees might not be significant but I was confident they would make me psychologically reluctant to return something I didn’t like. I know this because that’s what happened with my last mattress. And I’m already pretty sure 30 days isn’t enough to for memory foam to loosen up.
Must have an approximation to the Cloud Luxe. Even realizing that the 5lb comfort layers are more durable and better at higher weight ranges, I wanted something that felt like the Cloud Luxe
<$2000
That left me removing the following retailers:
SleepWarehouse: 30 day return only, restocking fee
Novosbed: No clear similarity to Cloud Luxe but otherwise good airflow layer and free trial
Foamorder: no cooling assistance
Memory Foam Comfort (MFC): may not ship to USA, may not have return policy
Restava: poly top layer not great for cooling. Otherwise this was a top choice.
SleepEz: no cooling assistance
MyLuxuryMattress: no clear similarity to cloud luxe
Rocky Mountain: no clear similarity to cloud luxe
SelectABed: versions similar to cloud luxe >$2,000, but has good cooling assistance
SelectFoam: versions similar to cloud luxe >$2,000 but excellent cooling assistance
I ended up selecting Brooklyn Bedding Cool Luxe for $1500 with a free mattress protector. It is the best choice out of the list I described given the criteria I was using to select a mattress. It also has a 1.5" layer of 5lb foam over the 4lb foam, which helps some with durability.
I asked a number of questions to the salesperson, Jacob, on the phone. For example, I described my platform bed and he assured me that other customers with similar beds (sold by Ikea apparently) have had no problems. I can still get a firmer foundation, but I’d like to try it without an extra foundation on the platform bed. I asked detailed questions about how I would return the mattress, and I feel confident that I would be willing to do this if I’m not satisfied. We discussed my weight and preference data, and we both agreed that the CoolLuxe Supreme is likely to be cooler. The Cool Luxe only reduces sleeping hot by 33%. But I didn’t want to spend >$2,000 and thought I could try the Cool Luxe. If I have no hot sleeping problems, then I don’t have to get a more expensive mattress.
I mentioned Mattress Underground but did not get a 5% discount because Brooklyn Bedding currently has a promotion for $100 off plus a free mattress protector, which is worth more than the 5% off. So I selected the $100 off plus free mattress protector.
You’ve certainly done some great research and made some very detailed comparisons based on the criteria that were most important to you. Most importantly … you ended up making a great choice!
Congratulations on your new mattress
Thanks too for sharing all the details about how you made the choice you did and I think your process was a great example about how to make final choices between “good and good”.
I hope you have the chance to share your feedback once you’ve received your mattress and had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Thank you, Phoenix! I appreciate the positive feedback on my approach. More importantly, I appreciate all the information you’ve provided in this website.
The mattress shipped already, so in 3-5 days I’ll start being able to form an opinion of it. I’d be happy to respond with my feedback once I get to try it for awhile.
Just a quick point of clarification: you mentioned that Novosbed only offers a 30-night trial and charges a return shipping fee, which is not correct: we offer a 120 night trial, and if a customer needs to return their mattress (for any reason), we arrange for pickup and return-shipping at our expense.
No shipping charges or restocking fees. Just a 100%, no-questions-asked, refund.
I “should have” caught it myself but it went right by me.
In looking a little more closely as well there are probably a couple of other parts that could be clarified …
Restava: Some types of polyfoam that are used in top layers or quilting layers can be quite breathable (more so than memory foam) although they can “modify” the feel of the memory foam.
SleepEz: Wool in a quilting layer is also a “cooling” factor although it can also affect the feel of the memory foam.
Thank you very much for correcting me. I actually forgot to mention that some of the details I compiled could be inaccurate. It clearly states on your website that you have a 120-night in home free trial. I bet I got my open tabs confused somewhere.
Thanks again f or clarifying. I would hate to spread inaccurate information. Now I wonder which retailer I was thinking of :ohmy:
Hi Cabert. Your research and thoughtful posts have been a great help in our search for a memory foam mattress. We’re about to pull the trigger and our criteria is very similar to yours. We too have the BB Cool Luxe high on our list. How do you like it? Any regrets? Thanks again.
Eric
Thanks for asking! We purchased the BB Cool Luxe about 1.5 months ago. We do love our mattress. It’s worked very well on our platform bed. We both feel like we get a very comfortable night’s sleep. In my case, once I got that bed, it was the first solid night’s sleep I’d had in at least a year. So the difference was very noticeable. Neither of us have had any problems with back or neck pain. I feel like I sink in far enough to account for my wide shoulders and hips. It’s important to note that the BB Cool Luxe doesn’t have much edge support, so I hope you don’t plan on sitting on the edge of your mattress. But otherwise, the comfort level meets our needs and desires.
I do think that the BB Cool Luxe sleeps a little warm for me. That’s at least partially due to my bedding - if I use a lighter blanket just for myself instead of the heavy, polyester comforter I foolishly purchased last year, then I sleep mostly cool throughout the night. My fiancee has no problems sleeping hot at all. And as I mentioned, even though he’s on the heavier side, he has no problems with support. I am still not interested in upgrading to the BB PureCool Luxe due to the price difference even though I think it probably would help with cooling. I felt like I got a great value in the Cool Luxe, and I’m happy with that. I think as long as I’m careful with my bedding, I will have fewer problems. I researched bedding options here on the Mattress Underground and had my eye on a few items that I think will help, such as an outlast comforter, but I am not buying anything yet.
If you have any specific questions about my experience with the Cool Luxe, just let me know and I’d be happy to answer.
