My Essentia.com False Advertising and Lying to Consumer

[phoenix]

Hi PhilP,

And this is the reason I am adding my comments/questions here: didn’t see anywhere a reference to how comfortable this mattress really is. We don’t really care about the “natural” or “green” aspects (although this will be a plus).

Comfort is subjective and relative to each person. One person’s “comfortable” is another person’s “horrible”. A subjective sense of comfort alone is also one of the worst ways to buy a mattress. A much more objective way to test a mattress is for what I call PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preference).

If you haven’t read it already … the first place I would start is post #1 here and the information it links to (which is perhaps the most important post on the forum). Scanning the information there will answer most of the questions in your post.

1. What do you guys think about the quality of the mattress itself (leave lying aside).

The Essentia Classic 8 is a fairly simple mattress with 2" of 5.25 lb memory foam over 6" of Dunlop latex. Both of these as well as the cover materials are good quality … although they certainly don’t justify the prices they are charging. A couple of inches of memory foam over latex can make a very comfortable mattress for many people who prefer this particular combination of materials (and assuming that the type of memory foam and the ILD of the latex was suitable for them). Some would love this combination and others wouldn’t. If someone was comfortable with the very high price they would be paying for these materials … then at least there are no obvious weak links in the mattress.

2. It is now seems to me that the most of the showroom (maybe even the more expensive latex mattresses) are actually a latex core/base with wither latex comfort layer or a MF layer. But online, somehow it is the opposite: i.e. core/base of foam (HD/HR or other) with some (very little) latex and then again MF/wool for comfort… why is that?
   Can you elaborate on the different construction?

Most of the major brands use polyfoam in the comfort layers not latex which is the worst combination for a latex mattress because you would be sleeping mostly on polyfoam. the mattresses you are describint are actually not the norm for most local stores (at least in the major brands). I don’t know which “online” merchants you are comparing to but the variety available online is similar to local stores. You will find almost every combination of materials at different online manufacturers and merchants just like you will locally. Some have latex hybrids, some have all latex, and some have memory foam, and many variations of all of these. Major manufacturers build their mattresses for “showroom feel” not durability and tend to use lower quality materials in the comfort layers which is the “weak link” of most mattresses. This type of construction tends to break down much more quickly because the polyfoam they use in the comfort layers is not nearly as durable as latex. Polyfoam … even in the lowest grade … can be very comfortable initially, it just doesn’t last and the loss of comfort and support that comes when the comfort layers soften and degrade isn’t covered by a warranty and manufacturers know this. Better manufacturers (not just online but all over the country) use higher quality materials in the upper layers (and in all the layers for that matter) at every price point compared to the larger manufacturers because they are much more responsive to their local (or online) customer base and their reputation instead of shareholders and the profit margins of mass market retailers and longer supply chains. They sell based on real quality rather than on advertising that sells the sizzle and not the steak.

Even if you have a higher latex layer- why would it be the top layer and not the support layer? I am a bit confused about that…
I understand the later will be cheaper but then why bother and put 2 or 3 or even latex between two foam layers???

Because the comfort layers provide most of the “feel” of the mattress and they are also the weak link of a mattress in terms of durability in most cases. The support layers are of course an important part of a mattress’s construction and performance but they are not the most important part of the durability of a mattress. Again there is much more about this in the post I linked earlier and the information it links to. if you only have say a thin layer of latex in between other lower quality foams it can affect the performance and "feel’ of the mattress (which is what sells the mattress because you can’t feel quality or durability) but the lower quality layers will be the weak link of the mattress and when they soften you can lose the comfort and support that was the reason you bought the mattress. If this doesn’t trigger a warranty exchange (which it usually won’t) the larger manufacturers don’t really care because when it comes time to replace the mattress in a few years then their current advertising about their supposedly “new” models will lead most consumers to buy the same kind of mattress and make the same mistakes all over again. Selling mattresses that don’t last very long to people who don’t know any better and without having to do a warranty exchange in most cases is a very profitable business. It keeps investors happy.

How will the Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress compare (if at all since it is totally different) to the feeling/support/quality of the Classic 8?

Post #2 here talks about the ways that it’s possible to compare one mattress to another (every mattress feels different to different people so this type of comparison would only really apply to each person’s perceptions) and as you can see the only way to know this for you would be to compare them both in side to side testing. The materials are an apples to oranges comparison and too different to compare in any meaningful way based on specs and because what you would feel with the Ultimate Dreams is mostly latex which is a fast response material that has a more ‘on the mattress" feel and with the Classic 8 you would feel much more of the top 2" of memory foam modified by the top part of the latex underneath it (you would “go through” thee top 2" into the latex) and memory foam is a slow response material with a more "in the mattress’ feeling. They are very different.

The support of each would depend on how quickly the support layers “stopped” your heavier parts (pelvis) from sinking down into the mattress and would depend on the ILD and compression modulus of the polyfoam compared to the ILD and compression modulus of the latex. This information isn’t known. Again because these two mattresses are so different … to know the relative difference in “feel”, pressure relief, or support for your body type and sleeping style you would need to test them side by side in real time and in person.

If you tested a mattress with 2’ of memory foam over a similar layer of latex (assuming you know the ILD of the latex in the Classic8) then it would be a more meaningful comparison and if you tested a latex/polyfoam hybrid with similar layering it would be a more meaningful comparison to the Ultimate Dreams.

Where in NYC can we try something similar to the Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress?

Some of the better options in and around NYC are listed in post #2 here. There is also a more categorized list with more detailed descriptions of some of the merchants in post #7 here.

If you call the merchants listed and describe the layering of a mattress that you were interested in then they could tell you (hopefully anyway) if they carried a mattress that may approximate it. It still probably wouldn’t “match” it though because even if it used the same materials, the softness/firmness or version of the materials may be different. It would be an impossible job to keep a list of the mattresses that each merchant carries with all the changes that are constantly happening so a phone call and a description of the layers or generic type of mattress that you are looking for is the way to find mattresses that are somewhat similar.

If you follow the steps in the first post I linked you will have the best odds of finding the “experts” (and knowing how to recognize them) who in turn will help you find a great mattress that will meet all of your needs and preferences and has the quality and value you are looking for.

Phoenix