After some research and readings on this website and others I thought I was going to purchase either the DreamFoam Mattress Ultimate Dreams, or the Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress.
Today we went to Macyâs (yes, I knowâŚ) in NYC to try some mattresses (it was hard to find any latex mattresses around).
We tried the somthing similar to this and this.
My wife liked the softer one better and thought I felt my lower back on it and preferred the firmer. My wife said it was also pretty comfortable.
We also tried the tempurpedic cloud luxe and cloud supreme. we didnât really like either.
We went on to try the Essentia line close by and actually really liked their classic 8.
My wife usually prefers a softer mattress but she really liked this one.
And this is the reason I am adding my comments/questions here: didnât see anywhere a reference to how comfortable this mattress really is. We donât really care about the ânaturalâ or âgreenâ aspects (although this will be a plus).
Questions:
What do you guys think about the quality of the mattress itself (leave lying aside).
It is now seems to me that the most of the showroom (maybe even the more expensive latex mattresses) are actually a latex core/base with wither latex comfort layer or a MF layer. But online, somehow it is the opposite: i.e. core/base of foam (HD/HR or other) with some (very little) latex and then again MF/wool for comfort⌠why is that?
Can you elaborate on the different construction?
Even if you have a higher latex layer- why would it be the top layer and not the support layer? I am a bit confused about thatâŚ
I understand the later will be cheaper but then why bother and put 2 or 3 or even latex between two foam layers???
How will the Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress compare (if at all since it is totally different) to the feeling/support/quality of the Classic 8?
Where in NYC can we try something similar to the Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress?
are there anything online or in NYC that will be similar to the feel of the Classic 8? Anything else we should consider?
Some other notes: we wanted to love the could luxe- but we didnât. We don;t want to pay too much, but it is important to us to have a good mattress that will last and will be good quality.
Comfort is subjective and relative to each person. One personâs âcomfortableâ is another personâs âhorribleâ. A subjective sense of comfort alone is also one of the worst ways to buy a mattress. A much more objective way to test a mattress is for what I call PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preference).
If you havenât read it already ⌠the first place I would start is post #1 here and the information it links to (which is perhaps the most important post on the forum). Scanning the information there will answer most of the questions in your post.
The Essentia Classic 8 is a fairly simple mattress with 2" of 5.25 lb memory foam over 6" of Dunlop latex. Both of these as well as the cover materials are good quality ⌠although they certainly donât justify the prices they are charging. A couple of inches of memory foam over latex can make a very comfortable mattress for many people who prefer this particular combination of materials (and assuming that the type of memory foam and the ILD of the latex was suitable for them). Some would love this combination and others wouldnât. If someone was comfortable with the very high price they would be paying for these materials ⌠then at least there are no obvious weak links in the mattress.
Most of the major brands use polyfoam in the comfort layers not latex which is the worst combination for a latex mattress because you would be sleeping mostly on polyfoam. the mattresses you are describint are actually not the norm for most local stores (at least in the major brands). I donât know which âonlineâ merchants you are comparing to but the variety available online is similar to local stores. You will find almost every combination of materials at different online manufacturers and merchants just like you will locally. Some have latex hybrids, some have all latex, and some have memory foam, and many variations of all of these. Major manufacturers build their mattresses for âshowroom feelâ not durability and tend to use lower quality materials in the comfort layers which is the âweak linkâ of most mattresses. This type of construction tends to break down much more quickly because the polyfoam they use in the comfort layers is not nearly as durable as latex. Polyfoam ⌠even in the lowest grade ⌠can be very comfortable initially, it just doesnât last and the loss of comfort and support that comes when the comfort layers soften and degrade isnât covered by a warranty and manufacturers know this. Better manufacturers (not just online but all over the country) use higher quality materials in the upper layers (and in all the layers for that matter) at every price point compared to the larger manufacturers because they are much more responsive to their local (or online) customer base and their reputation instead of shareholders and the profit margins of mass market retailers and longer supply chains. They sell based on real quality rather than on advertising that sells the sizzle and not the steak.
Because the comfort layers provide most of the âfeelâ of the mattress and they are also the weak link of a mattress in terms of durability in most cases. The support layers are of course an important part of a mattressâs construction and performance but they are not the most important part of the durability of a mattress. Again there is much more about this in the post I linked earlier and the information it links to. if you only have say a thin layer of latex in between other lower quality foams it can affect the performance and "feelâ of the mattress (which is what sells the mattress because you canât feel quality or durability) but the lower quality layers will be the weak link of the mattress and when they soften you can lose the comfort and support that was the reason you bought the mattress. If this doesnât trigger a warranty exchange (which it usually wonât) the larger manufacturers donât really care because when it comes time to replace the mattress in a few years then their current advertising about their supposedly ânewâ models will lead most consumers to buy the same kind of mattress and make the same mistakes all over again. Selling mattresses that donât last very long to people who donât know any better and without having to do a warranty exchange in most cases is a very profitable business. It keeps investors happy.
Post #2 here talks about the ways that itâs possible to compare one mattress to another (every mattress feels different to different people so this type of comparison would only really apply to each personâs perceptions) and as you can see the only way to know this for you would be to compare them both in side to side testing. The materials are an apples to oranges comparison and too different to compare in any meaningful way based on specs and because what you would feel with the Ultimate Dreams is mostly latex which is a fast response material that has a more âon the mattress" feel and with the Classic 8 you would feel much more of the top 2" of memory foam modified by the top part of the latex underneath it (you would âgo throughâ thee top 2" into the latex) and memory foam is a slow response material with a more "in the mattressâ feeling. They are very different.
The support of each would depend on how quickly the support layers âstoppedâ your heavier parts (pelvis) from sinking down into the mattress and would depend on the ILD and compression modulus of the polyfoam compared to the ILD and compression modulus of the latex. This information isnât known. Again because these two mattresses are so different ⌠to know the relative difference in âfeelâ, pressure relief, or support for your body type and sleeping style you would need to test them side by side in real time and in person.
If you tested a mattress with 2â of memory foam over a similar layer of latex (assuming you know the ILD of the latex in the Classic8) then it would be a more meaningful comparison and if you tested a latex/polyfoam hybrid with similar layering it would be a more meaningful comparison to the Ultimate Dreams.
Some of the better options in and around NYC are listed in post #2 here. There is also a more categorized list with more detailed descriptions of some of the merchants in post #7 here.
If you call the merchants listed and describe the layering of a mattress that you were interested in then they could tell you (hopefully anyway) if they carried a mattress that may approximate it. It still probably wouldnât âmatchâ it though because even if it used the same materials, the softness/firmness or version of the materials may be different. It would be an impossible job to keep a list of the mattresses that each merchant carries with all the changes that are constantly happening so a phone call and a description of the layers or generic type of mattress that you are looking for is the way to find mattresses that are somewhat similar.
If you follow the steps in the first post I linked you will have the best odds of finding the âexpertsâ (and knowing how to recognize them) who in turn will help you find a great mattress that will meet all of your needs and preferences and has the quality and value you are looking for.
We in the industry applaud your efforts to call a spade a spade on this so called green washing and down right lying. The bellow link is the FTCs response to MyEssentia and their false claims.
In Part it said The FTC alleges that Essentia made unsubstantiated claims that its mattresses do not contain VOCs, are chemical-free, have no chemical off-gassing or odor, and are made from 100 percent natural materials. Moreover, the complaint alleges that Essentia claimed that tests show that its memory foam is free of VOCs and formaldehyde when, in fact, tests do not support these claims. For the full article you can go to below link
I wish someone in Canada would stand up to this false advertiser!
Unfortunately it doesnât seem to have changed their approach much in terms of the other claims they are making that werenât challenged by the FTC (see post #3 and #4 here).
Even other organic mattress seller will tell you there is no such thing is 100% natural latex.
Why do they charge 2-3 times the price of other âorganic naturalâ latex mattress? They advertise as all natural and prey on your social consciousness.
My first mattress came folded and frozen. It had to thaw and then I found it dipped in the middle. They waived the 9% handling and recycling fee and allowed me to return it with option to try another mattress. But if the second mattress didnât work out, Iâd pay 9%. I wanted to give them another chance. The second mattress came and it was slanted on one side. 3 weeks after I returned the second mattress and chasing after them for my refund, I should get 91% back soon. When asked if the mattress would go through quality control again, they replied that theyâd investigate to see if it is part of a defective batch. And if it was, the 9% still applies as it goes towards handling and recycling. This is after several unanswered emails to 4 people within their organization. I wondered if they were a going concern risk. If not, my experience indicates they may very well be! So much for being a social conscious store, thatâs false advertising too!
Iâm still having a hard time finding a good mattress. I think as long as it doesnât contain polyurethane foam, I should be good.
My previous mattress was 12+ years old. Not sure why that mattress didnât give me any side effects? But the previous 3 mattress Iâve purchased have. Sleeping on the freaking floor right now.
Yes Iâm very familiar with their construction and the materials they use as you can see in the posts I linked in my reply in the other topic.
If you follow the 5 steps in the mattress shopping tutorial one at a time you will have the best possible chance of finding a mattress that is the most suitable, the most durable, and the best âvalueâ for you based on all the criteria that are most important to you.
they list Oeko Tex 100 Class 1 certification. If you read closely, they are careful to say that itâs their dunop ingredient that this applies to, not their full mattress. When I went to their site, I thought maybe they were finally trying to be transparent and put substance behind their claims. Seems the opposite is true: they are just using higher standard certification to trick customers.
I thought about these guys also before I went with RoyalPedics.
I donât see anything negative really from what theyâre using to make their mattress.
The only negative I can find is from the fire-retardant material they use for goods exported to the US. Which is a Kevlar type of cover. And we all know Kevlar is made form some type of Chemical polymers created by the DuPont company.
So basically a ânon-toxicâ mattress inside, but all thrown out the window because of US-Regulations with in turn makes it not as healthy.
My Essentia is more transparent than S@atva. Their chat-line blatantly said their mattress were âchemical-freeâ.
Check out this page. Theyâre mocking the Certipur-US program. LOL (I have to agree with them).
The only negative thing I can find about their mattress is the Kevlar used to pass US Fire-Safety Regulations. However, I found out that you can send in a prescription to them to order a mattress w/o the Kevlar material.
Other than that, whatâs so bad about them? They use Dunlop Latex, Organic Cotton Cover and their mattress have been tested for VOCâs and itâs a lot lower than âCertipurâ standards.
And the VOCâs are from the natural latex? So that shouldnât be a problem. Compared to VOCâs from lets say Petroleum foams.
Also, theyâre right about this claim. I fell for this from a popular US e-tailer.
In all cases, petroleum based foam is used, with 2-15% of the petroleum being replaced with soy or cedar oil, allowing the product to be promoted as ânaturalâ or âeco-friendlyâ.
They also list the chemicals used in their mattress here.
Cone essence * Diphenyl diisocyanate
an ingredient used in the production of natural latex foam and polyurathane foams.
Emulsion of Hevea brasiliensis milk in water
Hevea brasiliensis milk
Hydrolyzed corn * Phenol-melamine resins
-used in the production of natural latex foam; this component is what creates the flexible properties to the foam.
Mostly their exaggerated / misleading / or deceptive information on their site and prices that are exceptionally high compared to other similar mattresses with similar materials.
Diphenyl diisocyanate: This is a chemical used to make polyfoam or memory foam (not natural latex) and is consistent with the results of an analysis of their so called ânatural memory foamâ
Waxes styrene-butadiene copolymer: Styrene Butadiene is synthetic rubber.
There is much more about Essentia and some of the misleading claims they make and some forum discussions with them in the rest of the topic we are posting in along with this thread and posts #3 and #4 here.
That would depend entirely on who you are dealing with. If you are dealing with a knowledgeable and reputable supplier then they would be able and willing to tell you exactly what you are buying and the type and blend of the latex. Of course if you are dealing with a supplier that misrepresents their product or in some cases doesnât have the knowledge to know exactly what they are selling then you canât be sure whether what you actually receive is what you thought you were ordering.
When you make decisions based on these types of overly broad generalities without considering the specifics then you will often end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Well, they use terms like âgelling agentâ which no one know what chemical is used, Why not just say we use âchemical A, B and Câ, followed by a bath of Chemical D.
I donât think itâs realistic to expect this type of information about any mattress material (outside perhaps of natural fibers or fabrics) because it would have no meaning to 99.9% of people that werenât material scientists.
If you were to use these types of criteria as part of a purchase decision then there would be very few mattress materials of any type that would âqualifyâ for a purchase.
Iâm not sure if you have read the posts I linked about Essentia because if you had you would would realize that what they are saying and their descriptions arenât as accurate as you seem to believe they are.
Essentia is neither natural or organic and in essence they are marketing to those who are predisposed to believe certain claims or wording and donât have the time, patience, or knowledge to do more detailed or specific research or âfact checkingâ.
We could go around and around all day saying the same things in different ways but in the end you are always free to believe whatever you may believe or choose a mattress and materials that are the best match for all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you regardless of whether anyone else would have the same criteria or âinterpretâ what they are reading the same way as you are.
