My Mattress Shortlist Analysis: Price vs Durability

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

My wife is ~125 lbs, 5’4" and wants an extra firm. I am ~225 lbs, 6’2" and want a firm. I expect the new mattress to provide good support and durability (i.e., have minimal sagging) for at least 10 years, and to sleep cool since we both sleep hot.

Using that criteria, I am looking at a dual comfort latex mattress and have narrowed it down to either the 12" EuroTop, the 12" Bamboo Bliss, or the 14" Aloe Alexis. I am trying to weigh price vs durability between these options. Due to some previously acquired amazon gift cards, I can get the EuroTop for $885 but I know that it uses a 1.5lb HD foam core. Here are my questions:

  1. How concerned should I be about a 1.5lb HD foam core holding up to my weight?
  2. Is it worth it to buy up to the Bamboo Bliss (an extra $255 or 29% more) to get a 2.17lb HD foam core?
  3. Is it worth it to buy up to the Aloe Alexis (an extra $635 or 72% more) to get the 2.17lb HD foam core plus an additional 3" of latex?
2

Hi rsvoir,

Softness and firmness are very relative and subjective terms and what each person feels as soft or firm can vary widely depending on body type, weight distribution, sleeping positions, and individual perceptions.

There are also different types of softness or firmness that different people may be more or less sensitive to (see post #15 here) and a mattress is always a combination of softer and firmer layers not just a single “rating”. For example a mattress with 2" - 3" of ultra soft foam on top of firm foam would feel quite “firm” for most people because you would likely “go through” the top 2" and feel more of the firmer layers below it. Lighter people would feel more of the top layer while heavier people would feel more of the deeper layer.

It’s usually more effective and accurate to think of a mattress in terms of specific combinations of softer and firmer layers that each perform a different function which includes relieving pressure, keeping the body in alignment in all your sleeping positions, and providing an overall “feel” that is a preference for each person. Each layer plays an independent but interconnected role in a mattress.

“Support” is really just the amount that the firmness level of the foams under each part of the body will hold up weight or “allow” sinking in so that some parts can sink in more than others and the spine is in alignment in all your sleeping positions. As an example … with side sleeping the shoulders need to be “allowed” to sink in enough that the pressure point is relieved and the upper spine is in alignment while the heavier pelvis needs to be “stopped” by the deeper layers before it sinks down too far and tilts the pelvis which puts the lumbar out of alignment. In addition to this there needs to be enough softness under the recessed curves of the body (such as the waist and small of the back) so that the “gaps” are filled in which provides secondary support to the inward curves of the spine. You can read a little more about primary support, secondary support, and pressure relief and how they interact in post #4 here.

The support core of a mattress has only a secondary effect on durability (a mattress will soften and break down from the top down) but at your weight the top part of the deeper layer could be part of your comfort layers or “comfort zone” (the depth you sink into the mattress) which means that its durability would be more important than it would for someone lighter and I would consider a higher density foam under the top layer. You can read more about the factors that can affect durability in post #4 here.

Only each person can decide for themselves whether something is “worth it” because it depends on which of the tradeoffs involved in each person’s personal value equation is more important to them but if it was me it would be worth it both because of the higher density base foam and because it has wool in the quilting (which helps regulate temperature).

Once again whether a choice is worth it is up to each person (all their mattresses are “worth it”) but you can read more of my thoughts about the Alexis vs a latex/polyfoam hybrid that has one comfort layer in post #2 here and if a mattress with more latex was in a comfortable budget range it would certainly be worth it to me.

Phoenix

3

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. I do understand that the question of “worth” is a personal decision point so sorry to have phrased it that way. My budget can stretch from the $900 Eurotop up to the $1800 Total Latex, but I don’t want to spend more than I can/will appreciate and am trying to determine where that point is (more difficult since I can’t try them out in person).

That being said, comparing the Eurotop (3" latex) vs the Bamboo Bliss (3" latex) vs the Aloe Alexis (6" latex) vs the Total Latex (9" latex), the amount of latex triples. Due to the law of diminishing returns I don’t expect that the Total Latex is 3 times better, but if you had to give a rough guess, how much superior (in terms of support, durability, etc.) is the Total Latex mattress than a 3" latex hybrid?

In case it helps, I was able to try out the OrganicPedic Midori mattress and liked it a lot, though my wife wants something even firmer.

4

Hi rsrvoir,
There are several of us on this forum who have bought the Aloe Alexis lately and I bought a Firm one (Level 3 on their website).
I am nearly 6 ’ and weigh around 212-215 lbs. As Phoenix has said, “what is firm to one might be soft to another”, but in my personal preference what I bought is firm. When I press down with my fist it doesn’t feel firm but when I lie on it it is.
Further, I think this model is of excellent quality and has a lot of flexibility when you want to dial-in the exact firmness you desire - you will have to pay for shipping but you are not stuck with your firmness choice. And the comfort layers are comprised of two three inch foams of different ILD ratings…this increases your ability to get what you want.
One other thing that Phoenix recommends is calling the company to talk specifics with the guys who do this day-in and day-out.
I am very happy with my choice!
Good luck with your purchase,
Jeff

5

Hi rsvoir,

There really isn’t any way to “quantify” these types of questions because each person will have a different set of criteria that is most important to them. These types of things can’t be “measured” except on an individual level but there is a little more information about an “all latex” mattress vs a latex/polyfoam hybrid in post #2 here. For some people a smaller difference can be a significant or even the most significant factor in their choice and for others the same thing is less important. The goal is to make the best possible choice within your budget that has the highest odds of providing you with the best quality of sleep over the years and sometimes smaller differences can be an important part of your choice. For example … how much “value” would a 10% improvement in your sleep quality have over a period of 10 years? This can’t be measured in objective terms or based on a formula.

I think that jefmoody provided the “best” suggestion I would also make which is to talk with each manufacturer you are considering so that your final choice is based on the criteria that are most important to you and based on your own “best judgement”. Once you have eliminated all the worst options and are clear about the pros and cons of each choice then only you can assign a “value” to each of your finalists and decide which of the objective, subjective, and intangible differences between them are most important to you. Because of your higher weight the quality and performance of the layers immediately under the top latex layer could make a difference in terms of durability and performance and the number of layers that can be re-arranged or exchanged for “fine tuning” may also be important to you.

The previous links I provided include my thoughts about more latex vs less and more options vs less as well.

Phoenix

6

jeymoody and Phoenix, thanks for the responses. I had reached out to representatives from DFB and BB before starting this thread but was looking for some outside opinion to go along with that. And while I read your links already I plan to read them a few more times just to make sure I know what is truly most important for us. Thanks again :slight_smile:

7

Having re-read the personal value equation, here are my concerns listed in order of importance:

Wife (125 lbs) is back or stomach sleeper mostly, but occasional side sleeper.
Husband (225 lbs) is stomach sleeper mostly, but occasional back or side sleeper.

1st - Microclimate, breathability and temperature control - We sleep hot so need a cool feel
2nd - Pressure point and support - Wife’s back hurts her (due to poor spinal alignment?) so we need good support
3rd - Motion separation with small and large movements - We each tend to move a lot, want to keep from disturbing the other
4th - Slow or fast response and where in the range you prefer - We each tend to move a lot, want quick response to get rid of any previous position indentations
5th - Ability to open the mattress and exchange layers or make changes after purchase - Ordering online so need ability to adjust, and possible that our firmness preferences may change over time
6th - Durability of materials in the mattress and construction - Due to my weight, want to ensure high durability, no sagging, long mattress lifespan
7th - Sleeping “on” vs “in” the mattress - Definitely want to sleep on mattress, “in” feels claustraphobic
8th - Price vs quality and value of materials - Budget conscious, want good cost vs benefit ratio
9th - Warranty and warranty exclusions - Want reasonable restrictions meant to satisfy customer, not leverage for denying claims

8

Hi rsvoir,

This is a great list to use to build your “personal value equation”. The only remaining step would be a more in depth conversation so that they they can help you “rate” the mattresses you are considering based on your criteria so you can make the best decision for you. They would know how each of their mattresses “rated” for each of your criteria better than anyone.

The only one I would add (but this probably goes without saying) is suitability for your body type and sleeping positions in terms of PPP.

Post #2 here may also be helpful.

Phoenix

9

Brief update - After much debate I decided to go with an all latex mattress, king split, non-quilted cover with three 3" layers for arrangement flexibility. Using that criteria (and being a bit of a risk taker), I decided to build my own.

I’ve begun with a raw split 3" piece of 36 ILD talalay blend and a raw split 3" piece of 44 ILD talalay blend ($808 from Brooklyn Bedding, and came with (2) shredded memory foam pillows for being a mattress underground member). I plan to sleep on it for 2-3 weeks and decide on the final piece (a third 3" piece that I expect to be either 32 ILD or 28 ILD, depending on our preferences).

I have also decided to go the route of an adjustable base. Yesterday I put in a netotiate offer on a king split Reverie Deluxe from adjustabeds.org. Normal price is 1748, offered 7.5% discount, for some reason they countered with a 10% discount! So $1749 minus 10% = $1573, plus tax = $1702.99. I will try the base out for a bit before ordering the cover (not sure if I’ll go with a king or two twin xls).

10

Hi rsvoir,

I like the step by step approach you are taking where you plan to choose any additional layer based on your experience on the two layers you already have. You’re also fortunate that your wife who is much lighter likes extra firm because a mattress that is a little softer for you will be firmer for her.

You may be on to something with the adjustable bed offer as well … it certainly made me laugh :slight_smile:

I’m guessing it was adjustablebeds.org (rather than adjustabeds.org which doesn’t exist)?

I think you are taking a well thought out approach and you certainly have firm base layers to build on.

I’m looking forward to seeing what you end up with and of course your feedback once you get to test the first two layers.

Phoenix

11

Phoenix,

Sorry about the incorrect url, it was in fact http://www.adjustablebeds.org/ that I visited, though once I submitted my offer it was pushed over to http://www.olejostores.com/. I have never been countered for less than I offered, but I certainly welcome it :slight_smile:

Regarding the latex, I have received the 36ILD, waiting now on the 44ILD. It is a really nice piece of latex and very good price IMO. $404 at Brooklyn Bedding, cheaper even than the factory seconds from Mattresses 24/7 (plus Carlos threw in a king pillow!). Went ahead and started sleeping on the 36ILD. Initial impressions are very good. It took us a couple of days to transition into such a firmer mattress than our old sagging pillowtop, but we are both very pleased and sleeping much better than before. We both start off on our stomachs but during normal night movement, I think we each have ended up sleeping a little more on our shoulders than we realized. At least for me this has created a little pressure in the shoulder area, so I will definitely be softening up the top a little via the 3rd layer of latex. I am also eager to see if we will like the dual zone adjustable bed at the cost of two twin xls with the space/gap, or if we will want a single king. From reading online, people either love or hate that setup so I figure why not try it out before buying the covers. Then we can move forward with what we know we like.

12

Hi rsvoir,

You certainly did receive a good price but just to clarify … mattresses 24/7 used to sell factory seconds but they no longer do … although their prices are now also higher than they used to be.

The 44 ILD layer will soften the feel somewhat (thicker combinations act softer because the 44 ILD has more give and is softer than the floor or a firm support system under a 3" layer) but sleeping directly on 36 ILD would be quite firm for most people even if they preferred a firm mattress. Because the two layers will feel different from just the single layer it’s good to see your plan includes sleeping on both layers as a reference point before deciding on a top layer.

I think you are also “on the money” with this part of your plan as well and I’ve also noticed that split mattresses with a “gap” in the middle really are a love it or hate it proposition.

Again I’m looking forward to finding out about all your choices as your sleeping system progresses towards its final configuration.

Phoenix

13

Excuse my ignorance- what is a split mattress with a gap?

14

Hi sleepDeprived,

Some couples like the idea of using two twin XL mattresses instead of a king size mattress (a king is the same size as two twin XL’s) so that they can raise and lower each side separately. That way one can read or watch TV etc while the other one sleeps. It can also be used if one half of a couple prefers sleeping in a slightly elevated position and the other half prefers a flat position. When the mattresses are put together though there is a “gap” or split where the mattresses meet which can be uncomfortable when you use the middle of the bed.

Phoenix.

15

To clarify, we have a king mattress that is composed of multiple 3" latex toppers, each of which is divided/split into two pieces (i.e., a king made out of two twin xls). This allows us to have a dual comfort arrangement wherein either side of the bed can have a different layering of the latex. An additional choice is to put both twin xls inside a regular king cover, or to put them in individual twin xl covers (in which case there would be a space or gap between the two twin xl mattresses).

16

Oh, thanks for the clarification Rsvoir and Phoenix. When the split mattress is inside the same case, do you feel the split inside there if you lay on it?

It seems like another benefit of the split with a gap is it would be easier to move the mattress around.

17

Hi SleepDeprived,

You can read a little more about a side to side split layering (inside a single mattress) in post #2 here. You wouldn’t feel the split itself with an appropriate cover because the foam would be compressed together inside the case but you would feel the transition from one firmness level to another in the center area. it would be more noticeable if the difference between the softness/firmness of each side was larger.

Phoenix

18

Phoenix,

We have tried the 36ILD over 44ILD for a few days now. I feel like the latex is softening up a bit so I plan to try at least another week before ordering the next piece. Initial results though are that it is slightly too firm on my shoulders when i sleep on an angle (ie, halfway between stomach and side with one shoulder into the mattress). For my wife, this same position is giving her quite a bit of pressure (she weighs ~100 lbs less than me so feels the mattress is pushing her off it rather than allowing her to sink into it).

Here are is my list of how I could theoretically complete the bed, ordered from cheapest to most expensive. Curious if any of these stand out to you as particularly good or bad solutions?

2" of 22ILD - should relieve pressure by allowing shoulders to sink in but risks being too soft for both of us?

3" of 32ILD - risks being too firm for me and/or wife?
3" of 28ILD - risks being too soft for me and/or firm for wife?
3" of 24ILD - risks being too soft for me and/or wife?
3" of dual comfort (32/28, 32/24, 28/24) - risks being expensive (cost of two twins much more than one king)?

Any of the 3" solutions plus the 2" topper

Any of the 3" solutions plus another 3" topper

I know there are a lot of variations here so you don’t need to respond to each one, I’m just curious if you see any obvious winners or losers there.

19

Hi rsvoir,

I’m normally don’t provide specific suggestions on the forum because it usually would require a phone call to get some of the more nuanced information that good suggestions normally require (which of course isn’t possible) and even with more limited information provided on the forum I just don’t have the time available to put in the analysis time it would require into making individual suggestions … but your circumstances give me a chance to share some of the thinking behind layer choices so I decided to make an exception this time :).

A recap of some of your your height/weight and sleeping position information from earlier posts include …

[quote]My wife is ~125 lbs, 5’4" and wants an extra firm. I am ~225 lbs, 6’2" and want a firm. I expect the new mattress to provide good support and durability (i.e., have minimal sagging) for at least 10 years, and to sleep cool since we both sleep hot.

We both start off on our stomachs but during normal night movement, I think we each have ended up sleeping a little more on our shoulders than we realized. At least for me this has created a little pressure in the shoulder area, so I will definitely be softening up the top a little via the 3rd layer of latex.

Initial results though are that it is slightly too firm on my shoulders when i sleep on an angle (ie, halfway between stomach and side with one shoulder into the mattress). For my wife, this same position is giving her quite a bit of pressure (she weighs ~100 lbs less than me so feels the mattress is pushing her off it rather than allowing her to sink into it).[/quote]

From this It appears that both of you sleep on your stomach and possibly in a “side forward” position and possibly on your side as well. I don’t know how much time with each and I didn’t see anything about your body shape (flat, curvy, athletic etc) which would also make a difference

Perceptions of firmness are also very subjective. For example … your wife is sleeping on an extra firm layer already (see the rating for 36 ILD here) but doesn’t like it so she needs something softer than she thought (not surprisingly because of her weight).

If you are both primarily a stomach sleeper then “thinner is better” so I would tend towards 2" unless you spend a significant amount of time on your side in which case you may need the extra inch. The difference between 22 and 24 is insignificant.

Since she’s lighter I would normally go in the lower end of the typical 19 - 24 ILD soft range (around 19 ILD) but she also prefers firmer mattresses it seems and if her body type and sleeping positions could “get away” with only 2" I would lean towards 2" of about 24 (or in that range). This would allow some of the firmness of the deeper layers to “come through” but also provide some cushioning. If she wanted firmer yet (using her “best judgement”) then I would be looking in the range of 28 (32 is getting too close to the 36 that she’s not comfortable with).

For you is seems that you need a little less extra softness than her so I would also be tempted to go in the 2" range both because of this and because you also spend time on your stomach and I would be looking in the ILD range of 24 - 28 because of your higher weight.

If you decided to go thicker then I would increase the ILD to compensate for the extra thickness.

Because it’s easier to add to what you have than remove it though … adding only 2" would allow you to keep the option of adding another inch (either over or under the top layer) if you need it because you couldn’t remove an inch if you went with a 3" topper. This is a more incremental approach.

You could also order one side at a time so that each of you could try it and then use your experience to decide on the other half of the layer (assuming you are comfortable with a split top layer because this would typically need a quilted cover to go with it to even out the split unless you glue the layers together).

If you plan to have a single top layer that isn’t split because you want a stretch knit cover then 2" of 28 ILD may be a good compromise between you that was more in a medium range (which would feel firmer for her). This is also based on the idea that if there are two seemingly similar choices that I would lean towards slightly firmer. This would still allow you to add another inch underneath it that was split if you needed it.

Of course this is all “best guess” with somewhat limited information and YMMV.

Phoenix

20

rsrvoir -

Thought I would add from my recent experience in trying to figure out the right combo as well. I’m built similar to you - 6’1" and about 185 lbs, athletic build with fairly broad shoulders.

My mattress has 3" of 28ILD, which is supposed to be the “comfort” layer. I was under the impression that I liked a firm mattress before, but after 3 weeks on this, it is too firm. I’ve never experienced shoulder pain from sleeping on my side before, ever, and I’ve slept on some firm mattresses. But over the last 3-4 nights, I’ve slowly developed a shoulder pain (and a little bit of a lower back pain) that is bad enough to affect my weight lifting. I have a 2" 19ILD topper on the way from BB. It is supposed to arrive today, so I can let you know in the morning what I think. My thinking, is that a softer (no higher than 22ILD) 2" layer would do you guys well, as it’ll be soft enough to provide a little cushion and relieve pressure, but thin enough to still allow the support of the layers underneath. You being a little heavier than me, the 22ILD would most likely be about the same for you as the 19ILD for me, given they are both Talaylay (Dunlop is supposed to be a little more firm), or maybe even go with the 3" 19ILD. This is my thinking, anyway.

Again, I can let you know in the morning if you’re interested. I’ve been trying to get this brand new mattress comfortable for a couple of weeks now.