As you know they don’t say anything about the quality/density of the foam sections or have much information about any of the other materials and components in the mattress so I can’t make any meaningful comments about it in terms of it’s quality or durability.
Zoning systems like they use can be useful and well worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right “balance” between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to. Having the ability to rearrange the zones after a purchase can also be an advantage because it allows you to customize and experiment with different zoning combinations to find the one that works best for you.
On the other side … if the initial few zoning combinations you try don’t work as well as you hoped for then the trial and error process can become somewhat frustrating when expectations of success are high if none of the zoning combinations seem to be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP.
If the cover is relatively thin and stretchy (rather than quilted) some people may also feel the split between the zones.
I had a long chat with someone at the company. They seem refreshingly free of bulls**t and hard sell, He wasn’t really sure that their mattress was the best solution for me as it is designed for people who have pain in a particular part of their body, but suggested that I try the foam tablets to try on top of my existing mattress for a week.
The tablets have arrived and the first thing I noticed was that the foam felt very different to other foam mattresses I had tried, much more springy. I now realise that reflex foam is a much cheaper product normally used as the base layer of a memory foam mattress, which doesn’t sound like a particularly good deal (their topper alone costs £300)
There is a very wide range of different types of polyfoam in the industry that can have different properties and can range from very low quality and less durable materials to much higher quality and more durable materials. The single biggest factor that will affect the quality, durability and useful life of polyfoam is density (which is very different from firmness because every density of polyfoam can be made in a range of firmness levels) so I would make sure you know the density of any polyfoam in a mattress or a topper you are considering because it can have a significant effect on how quickly it will soften and break down over time and you need to replace it.
I think that the John Ryan website is one of the most informative in the UK and contains some very good information. I would also agree that if the density of the foam blocks are very different from each other that it could affect how evenly they wear although of course they can also be replaced. In the article you linked though they conflate density and firmness which are very different foam specs and are not necessarily related to each other because different densities can be the same firmness and different firmnesses can be the same density.
I’ve had a couple of nights on it now. I tried the lower back pain configuration first, but that didn’t feel quite right. I swapped the firm tablet with the super soft one at the top and this felt much better. I don’t think any more experimenting with the tablets is needed, but I didn’t like the experience of laying on the reflex foam, so I won’t be pursuing this any further.
Now looking into y.o.u mattresses, see other post.
I’ve had a change to trial the N;Rem tablets on top of my existing mattress (not ideal I know) and I’ve found a configuration that works well. I was dubious about sleeping directly on reflex foam, but after a chat with the company today, they are about to release a new design which comes with a choice of a viscool or latex layer on top of the reflex foam…
They are now completely inter changeable with N:rem, so I could get one side with the six H:Rem tablets and a the other side in soft, medium or firm, and these can all be changed during the 100 night trial.
The company have supplied me with the spec sheets of the foam tablets, which I’ve attached. They also informed me that there are two layers of Harrison Spinks springs. Harrison Spinks are a very well regarded manufacturer of very expensive traditional mattresses in UK:
They recommended the viscool over the latex because of its cooling properties, but I wondered if the latex might be a better choice? They are going to send details on these shortly, what she could tell me on the phone was the the viscool was soya based and the latex is all natural.
I think the foam specs are within your acceptable guidelines, but please have a look and let me know what you think.
I don’t see any information on their site about the thickness and density of the foam layers or memory foam layers or the type and blend of the latex so I would certainly want to know this before I considered them.
The foam densities are all 1.8 lb density or higher which would be suitable in terms of durability for those that aren’t in higher weight ranges (more than the lower 200’s or so).
I don’t know the density of their memory foam so I can’t make any meaningful comments about it in terms of durability.
Latex and memory foam are very different materials with very different properties but the choice between them is more of a preference and budget choice than a “better/worse” choice. There is more about some of the differences between memory foam and latex in post #2 here but the best way to know which type of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in more general terms would be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience with each material in a range of different firmness levels.
Latex also tend to be more breathable and temperature neutral than memory foam.
Any type or blend of latex is a good quality and durable material but there are some differences between them as well. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.
If the viscool is some kind of gel memory foam then the “hand feel” of most gel memory foams will be noticeably cooler than regular memory foam but temperatures will tend to equalize over time at which point the insulating properties of the memory foam will become dominant. The amount and type of gel in the foam can affect whether the temperature benefits will last longer or shorter and the cell structure and amount of airflow through foam will also play a very significant role in reducing heat buildup in the material. In other … while gel memory foam can sleep a little cooler when you are first going to sleep at night … in most cases the benefits of the gel tend to be temporary and don’t normally last over the course of the night.
So called “soy based” memory foam is just a memory foam that has replaced a small percentage of one of the two main chemicals used to make the foam (the polyol) with a polyol that is chemically derived from soy oil (see post #2 here). It is still memory foam and would be closely comparable in terms of durability to other types of memory foam that are in the same density range.
I don’t see any information on their site about the thickness and density of the foam layers or memory foam layers or the type and blend of the latex so I would certainly want to know this before I considered them.
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The foam is the same as used in the N;Rem mattress so is the same as the spec sheets attached. N;Rem original used four firmness, but the new version (to be launched in the next couple of weeks) will only have three, which equate to the Soft, Medium & Firm used in the Tweak. The one they’ve removed from the N;Rem is the Soft, so the the Super Soft will now be called Soft.!
Viscool seems to be a brand name and is used by several mattress manufactures. The following links give a few more clues to what it is and who makes it, but not conclusively. The last one, for a wheelchair cushion does refer to it as 4lb foam though: http://www.jonesandtomlin.co.uk/p-2291-salus-viscool-1500.html
Yes … Viscool is a trade name that is trademarked in the US by American Excelsior. There is also a UK trademark vor Viscoool (with an extra “o”) which is owned by a Spanish company called Torresespic. Either way … it’s probably a line of different memory foam products that may have different densities (rather than just a single product with a single density) so I would always confirm the density of the specific foams that are used in any mattress you are considering rather than going by specs that you find on the internet that are used in other products or mattresses which may not be the same.
It looks like the French one is 5.5kg/m3, which I think is a bit on the low side? Hopefully N;Rem will come back to me tomorrow with more stats.
[quote=“Phoenix” post=64763]Hi paddyb,
Latex and memory foam are very different materials with very different properties but the choice between them is more of a preference and budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.
Phoenix[/quote]
The price is the same for each at the moment, but when they relaunch I think the pricing will change and latex will become more expensive.
I’ve had experience of both foam and latex mattresses and haven’t really come to any conclusion as to which one I like best, I’m not too concerned with this style of mattress as I can change it during the trial period anyway and I imagine I would be quite easy to slip a 3rd party topper in there if this layer wears out of isn’t quite what I’m looking for.
I noticed on the Tweak website that the Viscoool layers is 40mm and the Latex 30mm… Would you say that, as the price is the same, the Latex might be the best bet?
Again … the density of the memory foam or polyfoam in the specific product you are purchasing is what you need to know because it may be different than other products that use memory foam with the same name…
Latex and memory foam are very different materials with very different properties but assuming that the memory foam is a good quality/density material the choice between them is more of a preference and budget choice than a “better/worse” choice. There is more about some of the differences between memory foam and latex in post #2 here. Some people tend to prefer the faster response and more resilient and “on the mattress” feel of latex and some prefer the slower response and more “in the mattress” feel of memory foam but the best way to know which type of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in general terms would be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience with each material in a range of different firmness levels.
They will be sending a mattress with one side N;rem tablets and the other side medium Tweak foam. They are going to send both the latex and the viscoool comfort layers so I can co try both and send one back when I’ve made my mind up.
It will be a couple of weeks as I’m the first customer for the new model! Will report back once its arrived.
I’ll report back when it arrives, I can will get the viscool info out of them.
I’ve recommended that they put this info on their website, as it’s good positive data rather than meaningless gobbledygook than many of their competitors use. The simplified choice/mattress in a box/100 day trial thing has really taken off here in the UK, new products seem to appear every week.
While I wait for my mattress, I had another question for you. This mattress, and the other customisable one I was looking at, Sleeping Duck, both rely on the foam layers to adjust support between soft/medium/firm, rather than the springs, which remain the same which ever configuration you chose. In a more traditional mattress, the different support options are normally provided by differing spring tensions. What are the pro’s & cons of this?
It’s not so much a matter of pros and cons as it is that the different layers and components of a mattress serve different functions.
The deeper layers or components of a mattress provide the primary support for the mattress which is the type of support that “stops” the heavier parts of the body such as the hips and pelvis from sinking down too far and putting your spine and joints out of alignment.
The upper layers of a mattress are the ones that “allow” the more protruding parts of the body such as the shoulders and hips to sink into the mattress which redistributes your weight and relieves pressure points and provides “comfort”. They also help to “fill in” and provide support for the inward curves of the body such as the waist or small of the back which is what I call secondary support.
Middle or transition layers help with both comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment to different degrees.
Upper layers provide more of what you “feel” when you first lie on a mattress or go to sleep at night although the deeper layers can certainly affect how you feel over the course of the night and when you wake up in the morning.
There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together.
The mattress with the viscool and latex comfort layers was delivered today. Haven’t slept on it, but initial feel was good…
I’ve finally got the info on the Viscoool, which I’ve attached. I think the density is on the low side, but if I find I prefer this to the latex I’ll probably keep it anyway. If it deteriorates then at least all I need to do is buy another topper (or use one that I already have) rather than buying a whole new mattress.
There is a list of the formats the forum accepts in the help section here.
It’s showing up now
If they have confirmed that this is the actual material in your mattress then the 55 kg/m3 density converts to 3.43 lbs/ft3 which as you mentioned is a little lower than I would normally consider but it may still be worth considering if you are comfortable with the possibility that you may need to replace it more frequently.
I’m looking forward to any additional updates you have the chance to share once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a while.
