narrowing in on Latex purchase

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

First of all, thanks for all the wisdom and information on this site. Before stumbling onto it, I would have only gone by how the bed felt in the showroom and 100% would have made a bad decision as my first two choices were Aireloom and Kluft variations. Luckily they were not available to test on the showroom floor the same night I came home and then found this site.

So needless to say my search parameters have changed drastically. I live south of Boston,MA and have reviewed your recommended links and all the MA conversations on this forum. After initial information overload and just feeling comedicly overwhelmed, I now feel I have a decent grasp at what I should be looking for. I would like to echo others in saying this is way harder than purchasing a car or anything else I’ve researched and bought over the years, and these companies clearly try to make it even harder on us consumers.

So I first tried the Pure Bliss Latex Nature as this was my #1 target, but was dismayed that it did not feel as great to me as I had I hoped it would. It was good, but maybe to firm and not as comfortable as I had hoped. The Beautiful is not available to try anywhere within my location.

I then tried Cardi’s Nature’s Rest models, and liked the 3-DZH Lux Plush model the best. but again not blown away, but I did like it. along the way I tried some memory foam, hybrids, and coil brands/models (including all the Spring Air house brands) but quickly ruled them out.

Now here is where it gets tricky, I went into Jordans (I was there for a couch) and tried the Natura models for the heck of it. I tried the Toas and Unison, but really liked the Eco Sanctuary by far (unfortunately). I know from reading your site - at $5317 for a cali king, this is not a good value mattress at all. But forgetting value for now, I reviewed the layer breakdown and all materials were Talalay, Dulop, and wool I believe. They would not let me take a picture of the layer specs and did not have time to write them all down, but I will do so if I go back after visiting the rest.

My concern is they said there are no firmness options for the Eco Sanctuary, which in theory is fine since I liked the comfort level of the model I tried. But I am 6’4" 220 lbs, and worry if after a while it might not give my back enough support over a longer test period than 10 minutes in a showroom. I am a side sleeper and stomach sleeper. Do you believe this Dunlop mattress will give me the support I need? - as it feels very plush but not bouncy (which I liked). I am not sure if you already know the Jordan specs for this mattress, I know it looks different than the one on Natura’s website I think.

My other concern is the wool comfort layer, will this compress and lose its comfort over time - does it become lumpy or flattened? I have never owned anything but a crappy spring mattress so I am really looking to upgrade as I am a light and very poor sleeper, and looking for the best I can get that might help me sleep sounder. I could not tell if it was the Dunlap latex I was responding to when liking this model, or the wool stitched into the quilt?

If you take value off the board completely , and just judge based on PPP (which I liked) and durability – would you recommend the Eco Sanctuary? I will do my due diligence and keep looking, but I may have to decide if I can forget about the extra money I am paying because getting a mattress I love and is durable are far and away the most important factors to me.

my next stops are Gardner and boston bed company (Spindle is just too far for me). My current bed is so busted by now that I am kind of in a hurry but trying not to rush my decision. any input would be appreciated, I will go back and write down the Eco Sanctuary specs next time I visit if needed. thanks!

2

Hi needsleepMA,

The Nature is a great quality mattress that uses high quality materials but I certainly understand the difference between a mattress that someone “wants to like” and a mattress that actually works well in terms of PPP once you test it in a showroom. There can be a big difference :slight_smile:

Jordans has all the specs of the Eco Sanctuary here so you wouldn’t need to take a picture. As you mentioned all the layers are good quality and there are no obvious weak links in the mattress but of course this doesn’t say anything about whether it would be a good match for you in terms of PPP.

I can’t feel what you feel or see you on the mattress so your own careful and objective testing using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post would put you in a better position to tell me about whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) than the other way around (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Having said that … with your weight and being a stomach sleeper (at leas partially) I would be cautious with a mattress that used 5" of softer materials (24 ILD or less) in the comfort layers which may be a little risky.

All the layers in a mattress will have an effect on all the other layers but the top layer of Dunlop and the wool together would reduce the “bounciness” or resilience that you would probably feel if you were sleeping directly on Talalay latex.

While the quilting will help keep the wool lofted … it’s normal that wool will compress and become a little firmer to some degree over time (it will generally compress about 30% of its thickness) but this is normal for wool. Because of the nature of wool it will still have resilience after it remains compressed and if you sleep on different parts of the mattress from time to time and rotate the mattress it will compress more evenly rather than just under where you normally sleep. The “nesting” of wool isn’t an issue for most people who like the feel of sleeping on thicker layers of wool (unlike foam materials where foam softening or visible impressions can result in the loss of comfort and/or support).

I don’t recommend any specific mattresses because that’s always an individual choice based on all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. The “value” of a mattress purchase also depends on what else is available to you and the other finalists you are comparing it to when you make your final choice.

The materials are all good quality but there are some cautions that I would be careful about with your weight and sleeping positions but if you can confirm with some certainty that it’s a good match for you with your stomach sleeping in particular then from a quality perspective I would certainly consider it as one of your finalists.

Based on the options you are considering I’m guessing you’ve seen this but just in case the Boston list is in post #2 here.

You can also check the Pure Latex Bliss retail store finder here which may also help you find a store within reasonable driving distance where you can try the Beautiful (although I would also be cautious with this because it also has thicker layers of softer latex in the comfort layer) as well as the Nutrition.

Phoenix

3

thanks for the quick response, I do get the feeling that I am getting seduced by the comfort level and pressure point relief of some of these beds and not accurately sensing the Posture and alignment needs. I read all of the steps I need to test Posture and alignment, but I seem to have trouble executing them in the showroom as all the beds have felt ok so far in that area. or maybe my current bed is so bad now (can no longer sleep on my side as it starts to ache after 5-10 minutes) that anything feels good. Having a spotter would help, but getting one to go when i am is tougher.

regardless, I will try to focus more on the Posture and alignment on my remaining visits. Its seems to be the hardest criteria to feel for, especially in work clothes in a showroom instead of your usual more natural sleep setting. thanks for the cautious encouragement and info, hopefully I can find a happy medium between the comfort layers and support soon enough…

4

Hi needsleepMA,

Most good retailer or manufacturers will give you some good guidance and act as a “spotter” but of course they still can’t feel what you feel on the mattress so in the end your own “best judgement” is the only way to make a final decision. If you don’t have confidence in your choice then the options you have after a purchase (either a return, an exchange, or the ability to make adjustments with a layer exchange or comfort adjustment) may also be an important part of your personal value equation which could act as your “insurance” if your longer term experience sleeping on the mattress indicates that in spite of the “best efforts” of both you and the retailer or manufacturer you made a choice that was not as suitable for you as you hoped for.

I agree that it’s more difficult to test for alignment than for “comfort” or pressure relief but if anything it’s even more important. Part of the testing guidelines that are linked in the tutorial post is making sure that you wear loose comfortable clothing and take a suitable pillow with you and that you spend long enough on each mattress you are seriously considering for your muscles to completely relax (which takes about 10 or 15 minutes) so that you can “approximate” your sleeping environment and how you sleep as closely as possible and that what you are wearing doesn’t interfere with the effectiveness of your testing.

Phoenix

5

Hi Phoenix,

I have made some more visits/tests and have some specs I wanted to run by you. The first is a mattress from Bostonbed:

Therapedic EcoGel Blue Heaven

2" layer 19 IDL Talalay Latex
2" layer Eco-based Gel Memory Foam
1 Layer Dyna Flow Cooling Fabric
2" - 5# Hi Support Memory Foam
1" FT 18200 2.0 Density 18 IFD Latex Enhanced Foam
6" - 1.8 High Density Foam

Once again I found myself gravitating to the softer of their Ecogel models, the other two were extremely firm. I noticed the 19 IDL, which you recommend a higher number for my size and weight – how is the support for the remaining layers? I relaxed on this bed for a good amount of time and could not perceive any posture or alignment issues. are there any cons to Gel memory foam? I know it is supposed to cool, but are there any other attributes I should worry about? or having the foam core instead of a latex core?

The second is the Natures rest that I tried at Cardis and may try again:

Natures Rest 3-DZH Lux Plush

Silk/Wool & Cashmere
1" Plush Latex
1" Gel Infused Latex
2.5" Plush 3DZ Latex
7" NR Eco Core

On the site it lists this mattress as 13.5" deep, and the materials listed comes to 12.5", does this mean this mattress may have an inch of inferior materials somewhere in its design (hopefully not in the comfort layers level)?

My other thought, since I loved the wool quilt layer on the Natura Eco Sanctuary Plush so much, maybe I should buy a firmer mattress like the PLB Nature and put a wool topper on it. Unfortunately I would dislike having to buy a combination I could never test beforehand, as I am finding out reputation and quality materials still cannot tell you anything about how it feels to you when you actually lay down on a product for a period of time. On the plus side, it would be a gamble of only a few hundred (topper), rather than a few thousand (Eco Sanctuary). I saw the thread on wool toppers and a lot of great options, I only worry that it may have been the layer of Dunlop with the wool that makes it so comfortable to me on the Eco Sanctuary, and wool alone may not be able to duplicate the feel.

I have one more place to visit and then will be retesting the 4-5 main contenders again, thanks!

6

After further research I think I may rule out using a topper that I did not try out first.

I had one more quick question in addition to the ones in the post above – I found a PLB retailer with the Beautiful and Mezzanine. I had previously tried the Nature, and it felt a bit too firm and springy. looking at the PLBB specs listed on this site, I see the comfort layers are a lower ILD than what you would recommend for my size. Is this something to be cautious about, or do the other more firmer ILD layers make up for it? I only ask because its a much further drive, but so many people seem to love the PLBB I figure it is worth the trip to try it out in person before ruling PLB out altogether. but if its just a softer Nature, too soft for 6’4" 220lbs, then maybe I should not waste the drive. I hope to head out tomorrow and retest the rest and make a decision… thanks again for all the help and info!

7

Hi needsleepMA,

[quote]Therapedic EcoGel Blue Heaven

2" layer 19 IDL Talalay Latex
2" layer Eco-based Gel Memory Foam
1 Layer Dyna Flow Cooling Fabric
2" - 5# Hi Support Memory Foam
1" FT 18200 2.0 Density 18 IFD Latex Enhanced Foam
6" - 1.8 High Density Foam[/quote]

The density of the 2" layer of Gel Memory foam is missing and I would want to know the specifics of all of the materials (other than “around an inch or so” which you may find in quilting layers). The specs you would need are in this article but if the 2" layer of Gel memory foam is 4 lbs or higher (which as you can see here I believe it is) then there would be no weak links in the mattress.

I don’t “recommend” or “not recommend” any softness or firmness level or any specific material (outside of quality/durability considerations) because it depends on the specifics (softness/firmness, layer thickness, the materials above and below the layer and other variables) and how well the specific design and combination of all the materials in a mattress work together to provide you with good PPP. This why good testing (or a more detailed conversation with an online retailer or manufacturer) is so important.

Unfortunately, I can’t see you on a mattress or feel what you feel and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to know how well a mattress will keep you in good alignment (provide the different levels of support you need under the different parts of your body) in all your sleeping positions based on specs or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

[quote]Natures Rest 3-DZH Lux Plush

Silk/Wool & Cashmere
1" Plush Latex
1" Gel Infused Latex
2.5" Plush 3DZ Latex
7" NR Eco Core

On the site it lists this mattress as 13.5" deep, and the materials listed comes to 12.5", does this mean this mattress may have an inch of inferior materials somewhere in its design (hopefully not in the comfort layers level)?[/quote]

The layers you listed are 11.5" (not 12.5") so there are 2" missing and I would definitely want to know what they were. It’s possible they are part of any quilting in the cover and could include some polyfoam along with any natural or synthetic fibers in the quilting.

I agree with your thinking here because a topper can be an extra variable that adds some additional risk to your choices and can feel and perform differently on different mattresses. A topper can also be different from the same material in a similar amount that is quilted inside a cover. Having said that … wool is a great material that is a strong preference for many people who are familiar with it and prefer sleeping on it over anything else and if a mattress you are considering is otherwise similar in design to a mattress that is “perfect” for you other than a thicker layer of wool in the quilting and there is a topper that is “close enough” to the amount of wool in the quilting that you have some confidence it would work well for you (or the topper has a good exchange or return policy) then it would be well worth considering for those who prefer to sleep on a layer of wool.

If lower ILD comfort layers are fairly thick then I would certainly be cautious at your weight yes and make make sure you did some very careful testing so that you are confident that the mattress provides good alignment in all your sleeping positions. I have seen many instances of members of the forum buying a mattress (including some of the softer PLB mattresses) that made their choice based more on “subjective comfort” in a showroom than on PPP (testing for subjective comfort alone can be very misleading) and ended up with discomfort or pain in their lower back after they slept on it for the entire night although others have also been very happy with their choice and sleep free of pain and discomfort. Thicker and softer layers of comfort materials can feel great in a showroom but they may not sleep as well over the course of the night … especially for those who are in heavier weight ranges or whose weight is distributed less evenly throughout their body.

I would keep in mind that if you buy a mattress that is a little too firm that you can add additional softness and pressure relief with a mattress pad or topper but if you buy a mattress that is too soft then there are no great options to fix it without removing and replacing some of the softer layers.

Phoenix