Narvik (Scott Jordan) / Sonata (Berkeley Ergonomics)?

I am a first poster but longtime reader. Thanks for the great information that you have on the website! I have a fairly specific question. I have tested several mattresses and have settled on the Narvik from Scott Jordan (link) in NYC. I believe from my reading and my conversation with the salespeople at Scott Jordan that the Narvik is the same as the Sonata from Berkeley Ergonomics (link). This was discussed on another thread (see post #5) in reference to the “Astor” from Urban Naturals (where it was suggested that Astor = Sonata).
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: scottjordan.com/product/narvik-mattress/

Two questions:

  1. Other than the names, is there any difference between the Narvik, Sonata and Astor?

  2. The Narvik comes in 2 firmness levels. The sales person described the choices as “softer” and “firmer”, however to me the “softer” side felt very “mid” (ie, 5 out of 10) while the “firmer” side felt “firm”. I am keen to avoid “soft” (ie 2/3 out of 10) and “firm” (ie 7/8 out of 10) as I am a back and side sleeper and have found these to be bad options for me. In the “Astor” post that I linked above, the poster described the options as 5 or 7 on the firmness scale, which made sense to me (based on subjective view).

In case it is helpful to knowledgeable forum participants, the bed will be used by a 250lb 6’2" man and a 150lb 5’8" woman. We both liked the “softer” option. I thought the “firmer” option was just “ok” while my wife found the “firmer” option to be “good”.

Thanks for all your help!

Hi mikenyc,

I believe they are the same mattress (and are the only triple coil mattress that BE makes).

There are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

The first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Post #2 here has more about the different ways to choose the most suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for but the most reliable way to know whether a mattress is “soft enough” or “firm enough” or is otherwise a good “match” for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing and personal experience.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix. We clearly like the Berkeley Ergonomics tri coil more than the other styles we tested (and we tested many) and more than the CP Rogers comparable product (“Nano 2”), which we also liked (but not as much). The difficultly is that the “softer” and “firmer” options felt similar enough to my wife in a 15 minute session that an objective hip-check would be helpful. For example, what did the manufacturer intend when it designed the options (soft vs. firm or moderate vs. firm)? While we are almost ready to purchase the Norvik with the “softer” option at Scott Jordan, there is a 30% restocking fee (~$3300 purchase price = ~$990 restocking fee on this mattress) so the economic consequence of being wrong is unfortunately very high. Is there another seller for the Berkeley Ergonomics tri-coil that has a more favorable restocking policy? We are going to return to the store to re-test the mattress. Is there a more objective measure that we can perform while we are in the store? I am very much in agreement with your general approach, but these “softer” / “firmer” options are really throwing me off. All best, -Mike.

Pretty sure they are the same bed, our version of it is called the Cairo. I think part of the discrepancy in terms of describing the firmness of the mattress is that the coils in these mattresses are very flexible and elastic. When you sit on the edge of the mattress it can only be described as soft as your body weight is not being distributed over a wide area and the coils do not interact much with the other coils in the mattress. When you lay down on the mattress this sensation quickly goes away. I myself would not describe it as firm (we show only the soft version of the mattress in our showrooms) I would describe it as supportive…

The triple coil model has been a good mattress for couples with large differences in size and weight as those of lighter weight typically are suspended in the top micro coil and latex layers while those that are a bit heavier tend to activate the base springs more and still feel supported… Either way most people tend to have excellent posture in this mattress and it has become one of our go-to beds that almost anyone needs to try.

Hi mikenyc,

I don’t keep track of the return/exchange options of the hundreds of retailers or manufacturers that are members here or that are mentioned in the forum but there is a list of Berkeley Ergonomics dealers in post #12 here that you could check their websites or call them to find out about their return/exchange policies.

There is more information in the first part of post #2 here about some of the different ways that can be used to accommodate a couple that have very different body types or sleeping styles or that for other reasons have different needs and preferences in a mattress. Not surprisingly since he is very knowledgeable about mattresses and mattress designs (including the BE mattresses) … I would certainly agree with Daniels comments and there are many mattresses that have a design that is suitable for a couple with different body types and sleeping styles where each half of a couple will sink into the mattress to different depths and are supported by different layers and components in the mattress.

The most reliable way to assess whether a mattress is a good “match” for both of you will be based on your own careful testing.

Phoenix

Daniel, that is really helpful and explains some of what we were feeling. It is a very dynamic mattress. We will re-test keeping this in mind. Phoenix, I appreciate the link – I should have done a search before asking. Thanks again to the quick feedback from the mattress experts on this forum. Amazing resource!! We will keep you posted.

We returned to Scott Jordan after reviewing all of our options. One of the furniture designers from Scott Jordan’s Brooklyn Navy Yard manufacturing facility happened to be in the store when we revisited and his perspective was very helpful.

We ended up buying a Narvik that was half “firmer” half “softer” based on the our individual preferences… The salesperson assured us that adjustments to the firmness (ie soft → firm or firm → soft) could be done for a nominal charge as long as we let Scott Jordan know within 30 days of receiving the mattress. That took alot of the financial pressure off of the decision and let us focus on the ergonomics.

We were able to take advantage of a 15% discount (January sale) + 5% additional discount (MU). We also bought a new bedframe which is being built now – we hope to have everything in about 6 weeks.

Thanks again to everyone!

Hi mikenyc,

Thanks for letting us know what you ended up deciding … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

As you know you certainly made a great quality choice and I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

Congrats on buying a great mattress!