Natural Expressions / Classic Brands, LLC

[phoenix]

Hi 70sgirl,

It is on an adjustable base and I plan on purchasing an adjustable base so I put it in a zero g type configuration where I was comfortable for a while. If I’m going to sleep that way on the mattress, I should probably be testing the mattress that way. I was comfortable but began to think that my lower back may be rounded too much and that it may not be as supportive as I would need with the head and feet raised. It seemed like it was starting to strain my lower back, but I’m not sure if I’m just not used to it being relaxed that way and that is good. When testing a flat mattress you want your spine to have the normal s-curve. How do you test for proper alignment on an adjustable base? I really feel like I took two steps back last night.

I would hesitate to sleep in a preset “zero g” position for the entire course of the night because you need to be able to change positions over the course of the night to prevent blood pooling and in some cases stiff muscles that have been in the same position for many hours and if you sleep in the preset “zero g” position it makes it much more difficult to change positions . Zero G positions also aren’t suitable for the majority of people who spend any time sleeping on their side. While some people may do well with this position because of certain health conditions that prevent them from sleeping in a flatter position and elevating the legs a little (either with the adjustable or by having a pillow under your knees) can help to decompress and relax the spine … I would test a mattress in the flat position and then use the different positions that are possible with an adjustable bed based on how you feel in any particular position. In other words your body will tell you which position works best for you. You may also find that you do best with different positions (rather than a preset position) on different nights or even at different times of the night.

The other disappointing part is that I asked Phil to call and find out if the Talalay is a blend of natural and synthetic rubber and he got upset with me. He basically said he’s not going to call and that he’s been selling their products for many years and that he’d know by now if there was anything not natural in the product. It is called Natural Expressions after all. He was also pressuring me some to make the purchase, which I didn’t really care for. I really wish there were more places in this area with comparable mattresses. I also asked if we could get the mattresses with a zipper cover so we could change layers in the future if we wanted to and I was told no. I’m not sure that I really need this but I thought it would at least give me more options in the future. He had previously mentioned that each mattress is not made until he places the order, so I thought this would be an easy thing to get. I also asked if he could get any other configurations of the latex combinations since I wasn’t finding exactly what I was looking for that night and I was told no. He carries those 5 models and that is all I could get.

I think that you would be safe to assume that the Talalay is the blended Talalay from Latex International (now called Talalay Global) which they call “natural” and is actually a more durable material than their “all natural” Talalay (which is 100% natural rubber) … in the lower ILD’s especially.

I would also keep in mind that these are “finished” mattress with tape edged covers and that most manufacturers can’t just change the components or do custom builds based on individual customer’s requests because this may require that the mattress needs to go through a whole new testing process to pass the fire regulations and most wholesale manufacturers aren’t set up to make custom mattresses based on individual customer requests. In the large majority of cases if a retailer has 5 different all latex models on the floor in different firmness levels then most people would find that one of them would be a suitable choice and would be “inside the range” of their comfort and support needs. Having more models than this may not be something that most retailers would consider because of floor space limitations and because it wouldn’t be necessary for “most” of their customers.

If you are looking for a component latex mattress then you would need to purchase this type of mattress from a manufacturer or retailer that has this type of mattress available because it’s not as simple to change one mattress into another type of mattress completely as you may think. There is more about “finished mattresses” that have glued layers and a tape edged cover vs component mattresses with unglued layers and zip covers in post #15 here and post #2 here. One certainly isn’t “better” than the other and there are pros and cons to every mattress design.

We went to Matter Brothers in Tarpon Springs and had a very bad experience with one of their managers. She was very rude to us. As an example, they have an 11" all latex mattress. I said that I’d like to find out about the different layers in the mattress. She said that it is one solid piece of latex. I said that from what I understand it would be unusual for it to be made that way. I said that usually there would be a firm layer on the bottom, maybe 6" and then one or two more softer layers of latex on top of that. She said, “No, it’s one solid piece.” We almost walked out of the store, but with so few places to go locally I continued trying their mattresses. The sales person we were dealing with was very nice and offered to find out from the factory. I also asked if they offer to use wool instead of chemicals for the flame retardant. I called the owner the following day (yesterday) and he said he appreciated me letting him know about the situation so they could improve upon it. Shortly after that the sales person called to tell me that the owner will be calling me today with the answers to my questions and that they can use wool for the flame retardant. I am still considering their mattresses at this time depending on the information that I can find out and more personal testing.

If a mattress has several layers of latex glued together then it would “in effect” be one solid piece even though it began with individual layers that are different firmness levels. If a mattress is all latex from top to bottom and all the layers are the same type and blend of latex then it wouldn’t be important to know the specific firmness of each individual layer because it wouldn’t provide any information that would be useful to you either in terms of PPP or in terms of durability.

I went to two different Bed Pros locations. Unfortunately, they only carry two versions of the Pure Latex Bliss mattresses. One is too firm and the other is too soft for me. The sales person at the first location I went to was not very nice. I said that I would like to know the details in the layers, including the ILD’s and I was told that he doesn’t sell that way. He finally called someone to find out but was not very nice about it. He said that all the stores carry the same options. I tried another location just in case but they did only have the same models. I told him some of what I have learned on this website and he told me that you can’t believe what you read on the internet.

You may be getting overinvolved with “comfort specs” that really aren’t relevant to choosing the best mattress for you. ILD is just one measure of the softness or firmness of a foam layer and is a “comfort spec” and not a “quality spec” and is just one of the specs that affects how soft or firm a specific material or layer in a mattress feels by itself. When you are testing a mattress locally then the ILD of the layers isn’t important to know because with careful testing your body will tell you much more about whether a mattress “as a whole” is a suitable “match” for you in terms of PPP than the ILD of the individual layers and ILD itself is also only one of several factors or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm a layer or a mattress will feel to different people and can sometimes be more misleading than helpful (see post #4 here).

For reference the individual layers of the PLB mattresses are listed in post #2 here but knowing the ILD of the individual layers really won’t tell you anything about whether any mattress is a suitable choice for you in terms of PPP. If I was a retailer I wouldn’t sell that way either since I would only be encouraging a customer to make choices based on information that wasn’t meaningful to them instead of doing some careful testing and letting their body tell them which mattress is the best choice for them.

The “specs” you “need” to know are the specs that affect the durability and useful life of a mattress which are listed in this article and don’t include ILD information.

The sales person was pushing us toward the Beautyrest Black. It was after we left there that I started reading this website again and quickly crossed it off our list.

I’m glad that you didn’t consider this because as you know from your reading here the major brands tend to use lower quality materials than I would consider … especially in this budget range … and they won’t be able to provide you with the specs that you really do need to know rather than the ones you don’t (see the guidelines here).

The healthyhome.com website doesn’t work so I’m not sure if they are still in business.

Thanks for the heads up. I’ve removed them from the list.

Phoenix