Natural Latex in MA - My Experience! (Especially for the Chemically Sensitive)

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello All.

First, thank you to Phoenix for his dedication to this site. Everyone needs sleep and rest and I appreciate this forum more than I can express!

I needed as “natural” a latex as I could find since I am a MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) sufferer. I was exposed to a big hit of mold in a building 2 years ago so my body has reached its threshold for toxins. Materials in regular mattresses today like memory foam/ polyurethane foam (usually contains formaldehyde) and PBDEs (in fire retardents) don’t work for me. Real, total Natural Latex and natural fire retardants were a necessity for me.

I used this site and Google and I called many manufacturers in MA so I could find affordable latex by cutting out the middle man.

Gardner Mattress who makes a great product is a little more costly than some manufacturers but the person I spoke to at their main Salem factory didn’t know that there are definitely easy ways around chemical fire retardents. However I still suggest them to anyone who wants a long-lasting spring mattress.

At Bonnie Foam in Allston, the man who answered the phone had decent information to share but not enough about what is actually in their latex to make me feel secure.

I chose Mattress Maker of New England because on the phone they assured me 100% natural latex. I drove from Boston to Brockton and was told again in their showroom I was getting 100% natural latex. They needed a notarized letter from me to make a cover without PBDE fire retardents. They would use wool and cotton. The mattress was paid for on a Friday and the next Tuesday at 6pm I called to ask when I should expect it. Nothing had been done about making it and Valerie who handles the front desk and also does sales seemed rushed and irritated by my call. A “red flag” went up. Was this being put on the back burner?

I am staying at a family house on Cape Cod because I have no bed at my city apt…I really needed them to make my mattress so I could get back to work and my life. I expressed this to them. I also felt I should ask again about the latex product as I began to feel unsure about the whole deal. Was it really 100% Natural? Could they tell me what was actually in it? It turns out they couldn’t.

Then ensued the mattress week from hell…them trying to get information from their latex distributor (Mountain Top) about what they were actually selling, my having to keep calling them as they were just not communicating with me, the days were slipping by, I was missing work and snowed in on Cape Cod in February after a big storm during which time a very harried Valerie said their deliveries needed to be dealt with, not my situation…day after day after day it was another excuse.

Mattress Maker of New England finally had me construct an email with my questions which was forwarded to Mountain Top. It was short and simple but i never did get any answers. I was told my questions needed to be sent to Mountain Top’s chemists and lawyers (?)

It was clear I was going to have to do all the work.

But the worst part was being subject to long, personal, emotional melodramas by Valerie who questioned my need for natural latex and implied that their lack of information and all of this delay was somehow my fault (?) I believe that instead of taking the time to learn, in their ignorance they felt afraid of someone suing them if their mattress killed me, or they just didn’t want to do the work. That’s fine, but don’t put it on me. After two weeks of this needless insanity and wasted time, I did cut my losses and asked for a refund.

I came back here, asked more questions and did my own learning. By now I was really appreciating the importance of knowledge about latex and I realized I had to give Spindle Mattress in Acton a try. I spoke with Neal the owner at length several times on the phone. He did not think my not wanting formaldehydes and other chemicals was weird or unique. He was completely willing to get as specific as I could handle about his latex. He was really patient and I completely trusted that he knows what he’s selling!

I drove up to Acton and tried out the latex. Neal has everything all set up in a very simple, consumer-friendly way and has thoughtfully arranged his little showroom so that different combinations of latex firmnesses can easily be tried. He’s very eager to please, is sincere and very conscious about letting customers talk and ask questions. He listens. He answers clearly and concisely. There is no pressure.

But what I cared about most is that he knows every last detail about his latexes. He’s clearly been interested enough to do the work and the research. He knows the industry VERY well. He’s a nice, earnest young man (and is very easy on the eyes, in case you were wondering.)

I bought a 100% natural latex bed that comes in three layers that I can switch around if I want. Neal could tell me exactly how it was made and what curing package was used, etc. I leaned towards the firmer latex for stomach support and can buy a softer topper later if need be.

I ordered a wool and natural organic cotton cover (which Neal described the making of in great detail because I asked) which is stitched/quilted to compress it so no body impressions develop in it. All these details he considers and explains. I ordered a box spring with non-toxic fire retardents with no PBDEs. No notarized letters, doctors notes or prescriptions from the Surgeon General’s office were required. No chemists or lawyers were involved. The National Guard was not called in. Judge Judy’s courtroom was not in session. There was no drama. Just a real natural latex mattress and a non-toxic box spring which will be delivered in several days.

I have total trust that this is the best material for me (or anyone who wants to get away from chemicals) to sleep on.

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Hi LookingNow,

Thanks for the detailed and informative update and feedback about your visit to Spindle and the other stores you mentioned. Like you I also think highly of Neal and his knowledge and service.

You certainly ended up making a great choice … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

Just to add one point of clarification as well … PBDE’s have been banned and haven’t been used in any mattresses made in North America for about a decade although of course that’s only one of the possible chemicals or substances that someone may be sensitive to.

I hope you have the chance to share your feedback once you’ve had the chance to sleep on your mattress for a bit.

Phoenix

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Yes. Neal mentioned that PBDEs have been banned. These days I ask anyway, not knowing where mattresses or box springs are coming from. He said his box springs are free of bromides and the other chemicals I can’t remember right now.

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LookingNow, i also appreciate your detailed informative post. I had looked into both Spindle and the one in Brockton and found your posst to be quite enlightening. I think i will keep Spindlecon the list , although farther away. May i ask what you thought about the latex feel at Spindle? They only use Dunlop latex regardless if it is bought online or at the store, correct? Are there other variatons besides the two models on their website at the actual store location?

Thanks!

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Hello brc722,

I believe Spindle uses continuous pour Dunlop. Neal at Spindle however can clarify this further and takes the time on the phone if you need it. The feel was really nice (I can’t wait to sleep on it.) I don’t know how many different types of options he has access to for latex as I was only interested in 100% natural latex.

I hope you don’t mind that I took a moment to look at your other post to see what you’re specifically looking for. I noticed that like me, you are trying to find something that is both supportive (as a back sleeper) and also soft enough to support side sleeping. That is my exact issue as a side and stomach sleeper. It’s a difficult combination to get right without memory foam but I don’t like the chemicals in that, which is a big reason I went to latex. I also know latex will last much longer.

In would always suggest trying it out because different ILDs of latex feel different at different stores due to many different variables. If be interested in hearing what you decide on eventually!

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Great details and good job plugging on to get what you want.

As a small time retailer who enjoys getting into the nitty gritty of a subject, I have to say I applaud your asking questions. Unless you ask, we won’t share all we know because it would be irrelevant, information overload, car salesmanlike or just plain bothersome. But if you ask the questions, then we know how we can be helpful. And this forum is a great place to get some questions to ask. Knowledge may take a bit of work to get, but it’s always useful.

Deborah

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Amen, DIY. Thanks for your comments and insights.

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Correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that continuous pour Dunlop was synthetic, not 100% natural latex? I think Spindle uses two types of Dunlop latex- 100% natural dunlop and continuous pour Dunlop that they refer to as synthetic on their website. Latex sure can be confusing! :blink:

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Hi brc722,

Continuous pour Dunlop is a method of production that can use either synthetic rubber, natural rubber, or a blend of both. All of the latex that Spindle sells is made by Mountaintop Foam which uses a continuous pour process for all their different Dunlop blends. There is more information and a video here of what the continuous pour process they use looks like.

Phoenix

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Thats a cool video!

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Just wanted to give an update after i decided to make the trek up to Spindle the other day! Im very glad i did …Neal is super informative and helpful and the room he has set up for testing the different firmness levels made things much simpler and easy. I was also pleasantly surprised that i quite like the feel of Natural Dunlop latex (not sure what i expected). Right now, i am in the position of having to decide between two configurations i tested out that i found to be quite comfortable and supportive, making it alittle harder to decide. One configuration being (top to bottom): Medium, Firm, Firm. The other ( softer)setup: Medium, Medium, Firm. Being a back and side sleeper, im aware each has its own merits in terms of sleeping positions. I do think i prefer the softer feeling set up but i suppose one of my lingering concerns is the question of how much softer will it get with time & usage? Having no previous experience with a latex mattress, feeling kind of “blind” in this respect. Since the firmer configuration also pleased me, im questioning whether or not itd be wiser to choose that one for its possible longer lifespan & being ok w it getting softer over time. Decisions, decisions! :S

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Hi brc,

I will let others answer the question about lifespan of natural latex but I can give you my experience about firmnesses being a side sleeper but also needing the firmness for stomach sleeping.

I got (from the bottom up) firm, firm and medium. The first night I slept better than I had in a long time with that configuration. But I felt like I was wanting to crawl to the edge a little bit so I spent most of the night in my side. I called Neal to ask his experience about this and whether I should put the medium layer in the middle to make it firmer. He suggested I give the current configuration more time to get used to and see what happens.

Of course I had to do it my way anyway, and I put the medium layer in the middle so the configuration was firm, medium, firm. It didn’t work. It was too hard for side sleeping and even a but too firm for stomach sleeping (stomach sleepers LOVE firmness just like back sleepers.) I didn’t sleep well.

So last night (my third night owning the mattress) I put it back the way he suggested: firm, firm, medium. This time I did not feel the need to crawl to the edge. I slept really well, from about 9:30pm to 6:15 am (a nice 9 hours.) I felt no discomfort at all. It was very nice.

Neal says most people err to the side of more firm to be cautionary and he implied that wasn’t always the best way.

And that is my experience now too.

I know latex doesn’t break down nearly as fast as memory foam – from what I hear it takes years for it to happen but again I will allow others to comment on that.

If i ever wanted to go REAL firm I could bury the medium down to the bottom or keep it in the middle. So having the medium layer around is a good thing.

Glad you enjoyed your trip to Spindle.

Oh by the way, I am extremely chemical sensitive. The first few nights I could smell a little aroma from the natural latex but it wasn’t overwhelming and i knew it wasn’t toxic. After 3 nights now I smell nothing. If there was any odor I would detect it on my clothes and skin…there is none there. I’m really happy with my purchase and actually look forward to going to bed. I’m very comfortable in it, as in almost “in love” with it!

13

Hi brc722,

Latex is a very durable material so durability or softening wouldn’t be a concern for me in any configuration and I certainly wouldn’t “trade” PPP for durability. While all mattresses will break in and soften to some degree as the materials settle and lose any initial “false firmness” and the cover stretches … this will be less with latex than with other materials. This would only be an issue if the mattress was “on the edge” of being too soft. The goal is to choose the “best” configuration for your specific needs and preferences and I would pay much more attention to your careful and objective testing and experience than to “theory” or how the mattress may feel in a year or two (or longer) down the road.

Some people come from a more “old school” frame of thinking and believe that “firmer is better” and will choose a firmer mattress and “tough it out” in the belief that it’s somehow better for them when it isn’t. A mattress that is too firm can lead to just as many issues in terms of PPP, discomfort and pain, and quality of sleep as a mattress that is too soft.

On the other hand … some people are easily misled by the more subjective “showroom feel” of a mattress and often make a choice that feels softer and more “comfortable” or “luxurious” without spending enough time on the mattress to test for PPP (and particularly alignment which is what you feel when you wake up in the morning). This group will often choose a mattress that is too soft and doesn’t provide good alignment which can also lead to pain and discomfort.

The “best” way to choose a mattress is to choose one that your testing indicates is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP with only “slight” consideration to the effects of the initial break in period (which in the case of foam will tend to be softer and in the case of fibers which can compact or compress will tend to become a little firmer).

If you don’t have any options after a purchase to change the feel and performance of a mattress outside of adding a topper then if two choices seem to be equal and both are clearly a good match in terms of PPP with no obvious pressure or alignment issues then I would lean towards the firmer of the two because you can always make a mattress that is too firm softer by adding a topper but it’s much more difficult to make a mattress that is too soft any firmer without replacing the materials that are too soft.

If you have a component mattress where you have options to re-arrange or exchange the layers after a purchase then this wouldn’t be as important because you can make the mattress either firmer or softer after a purchase so choosing firmer when all your options seem to be equal isn’t as important and knowingly choosing either too firm or too soft can both lead to lower quality of sleep.

Phoenix

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LookingNow and brc722

The configuration that you liked, was it the natural or synthetic latex?

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Thanks, Phoenix. I appreciate the rundown to clear my battling thoughts between the two configurations. The softer setup was not close to being too soft, which is great, it was just right amount of softness (just as the firmer one was the just right amount of firmness). My PPP was good on the softer setup & if i go with initial comfort preferences, id choose this one. I think Im closer to making a decision and youre right, since Spindle allows for an exchange layer , i have that to fall back on if i find i need to tweak things.

I do have an indirect mattress question in regards to metal bed frames, are they also “overpriced” at typical box store retailers? They tend to use them to negotiate mattress costs and sometimes throw them in for free, so their true cost/value is obscured to me. How much does a standard new metal bedframe cost these days? No idea. Is $200, $100 too much?

Thanks

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The Natural Latex. :slight_smile:

Ive been thinking about the two cover options as well. The wool cover is appealing but i seem to have preferred the feel of the soy foam/viscose cover. Its components seem to be considered safe and nontoxic. The wool’s breathability is alluring and it would possibly firm up the mattress slightly, but im not sure if i want to risk slightly altering the feel of the mattress i laid on by altering the quilting layer. My preferred configuration(M, M, F) was only available in the foam cover to test out, and ive read that a wool quilting cover could give a slightly firmer feel, which would be ok, but i fear it could also alter the cradling effect of the mattress. Hard to decide, but It’s great to have these options available.

17

My experience is only with the natural latex, not synthetic.

18

I have the wool/organic cover and apparently it wicks away moisture from any sweat while we sleep. One thing you might ask about is which “sleeps hotter” or if either can help with sleeping “hot”.
I feel a little warm when I sleep but that could be the fact that I’m a woman at peri-menopausal age or any other number of factors.

The wool cover is “quilted”, so it’s stitch down to compress the material so there’s no hammocking. That’s all I can say about the feel of it on the mattress. I didn’t try the other cover you’re speaking of.

[quote=“brc722” post=33554]The Natural Latex. :slight_smile:

Ive been thinking about the two cover options as well. The wool cover is appealing but i seem to have preferred the feel of the soy foam/viscose cover. Its components seem to be considered safe and nontoxic. The wool’s breathability is alluring and it would possibly firm up the mattress slightly, but im not sure if i want to risk slightly altering the feel of the mattress i laid on by altering the quilting layer. My preferred configuration(M, M, F) was only available in the foam cover to test out, and ive read that a wool quilting cover could give a slightly firmer feel, which would be ok, but i fear it could also alter the cradling effect of the mattress. Hard to decide, but It’s great to have these options available.[/quote]

19

If there is an Original Mattress Factory store in your area, their metal bed frames are very reasonably priced. A queen size in the ATL area is $60.

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Hi brc722,

Sorry I missed your question.

[quote]
I do have an indirect mattress question in regards to metal bed frames, are they also “overpriced” at typical box store retailers? They tend to use them to negotiate mattress costs and sometimes throw them in for free, so their true cost/value is obscured to me. How much does a standard new metal bedframe cost these days? No idea. Is $200, $100 too much?
[/quote].

There are some steel bedframe guidelines in post #10 here and I think a reasonable cost guideline would be somewhere in the range of $50 to $100 or perhaps a little higher for the strongest bedframes (queen size). They are much more easily comparable by specific brand and model with google searching than mattresses so most stores would be in a competitive range.

Phoenix