Was able to test out the Awareness in various configurations today. Overall, I’m a fan. They offer variants in Extra Soft, Soft, Medium, Firm, and Extra Firm. They consist of 3 3" organic or natural latex in combinations of Talalay and Dunlop. They have zippered covers (with metal zippers) and organic wool of about 1" on top. Their mattresses carry a 12-year non-prorated warranty, and they have the usual 90-day layer swap deal as well. The Talalay is natural. The Dunlop is organic. I don’t know their sources.
What worked for me was the Medium. This mattress from top to bottom was: Medium Talalay, Medium Dunlop, Firm Dunlop. I couldn’t get ILD info at the store, but in digging around online, I strongly believe the specs to be:
Top layer: Medium Talalay, 22-28 ILD
Middle layer: Medium Dunlop, 25-30 ILD
Bottom layer: Firm Dunlop 35-39 ILD
This combo for me was incredibly comfortable and the store clerk help me verify proper alignment. I am certain I could live happily with this mattress.
Now, interestingly, this is VERY similar to the configuration that SleepEZ recommended for me on the phone after asking appropriate questions. Their recommendation was 100% Talalay from top to bottom Medium-Medium-Firm.
However in looking at the SleepEZ specs, it’d work out to:
Top layer: Medium Talalay, 30-32 ILD
Middle layer: Medium Talalay, 30-32 ILD
Bottom layer: Firm Talalay, 38-40 ILD
The SleepEZ Talalay sleeps to have tighter tolerances, or the info online about the Natural Mattress Store is incorrect.
Questions/Concerns:
By the numbers, the recommended SleepEZ mattress is going to have a firmer feel. Their soft Talalay is in the 22-24 ILD range. So I’m a bit concerned that their mattress might either be too firm or too soft given the wider gap between in ILD between soft and medium. But, the possibility of saving $1000 is very appealing.
The guy at SleepEZ seemed to discourage mixing Dunlop and Talalay layers (not sure why?)… but, how might one expect a Soft Dunlop 22-24 ILD top layer to compare to a Medium Talalay 30-32 ILD layer?
[quote]The SleepEZ Talalay sleeps to have tighter tolerances, or the info online about the Natural Mattress Store is incorrect.
By the numbers, the recommended SleepEZ mattress is going to have a firmer feel. Their soft Talalay is in the 22-24 ILD range. So I’m a bit concerned that their mattress might either be too firm or too soft given the wider gap between in ILD between soft and medium. But, the possibility of saving $1000 is very appealing.[/quote]
Unfortunately here is no “standard” definition or consensus of opinion for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that is firm for one can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. This is all relative and is as much an art as a science. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress (see post #15 here).
In addition to this … ILD ratings are only one of several factors that can affect how soft or firm an individual layer or a mattress “as a whole” feels (see post #4 here) and and ILD ratings are also not exact and will vary between different types and blends of latex as well so a Dunlop layer that is the same ILD and thickness as a Talalay layer will probably feel firmer than the Talalay to most people because it has a higher compression modulus (the rate that a material become firmer as you compress it more deeply). Dunlop also has a wider ILD variance from the top to the bottom of a layer than Talalay which is why it often has a larger range (see post #6 here). There is also more about the differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here.
In other words … there is no “correct” when it comes to firmness ratings. For example you can see on the Natural Mattress Store page here that they rate all their mattresses on a scale from 0 - 10 and some mattresses that show as being equivalent have different firmness ratings. The Awareness “medium” is rated the same as the Clarity “firm” and is rated as being softer than the Tranquility “soft”.
In the end … this can be very subjective and how firm a mattress feels to you or how well it matches your specific needs and preferences will be much more important than how a manufacturer “rates” their mattress or someone else’s perceptions or personal firmness rating and the only way to know for certain how firm or soft a mattress feels for you will be based on your own personal testing or experience.
The most likely reason is that Talalay is more consistent in terms of it’s firmness. How a soft Dunlop 22-24 top layer will compare to a medium Talalay 30 - 32 top layer would depend on several factors including the firmness of the other layers below it (which you would also feel) and on the specifics of the cover (which can have a significant effect on the firmness and feel of the mattress) but even though Talalay tends to feel softer than Dunlop in the same ILD … if their numbers are accurate than for most people and excluding any other variables the 30 - 32 Talalay top layer would probably feel firmer than the 22-24 Dunlop.
Ya, it all makes sense. And I’m starting to think that rather than roll the dice, order online, and potentially spend weeks or months screwing around with layers and shipping of layers back and forth… perhaps just going with something that is already known to feel good is worth a bit of extra money. And if I do want to do a layer swap still, the local store will send someone to my house and take care of everything with zero hassles.
So in your opinion, are there any weak links in the Awareness mattress? I plan to pair it with the spruce wood foundation from mattress.net which has 2.75" slats spaced 2.5" apart.
Most people are fine with their initial combination of layers and only a relatively small percentage of people have more difficulty finding a combination that is suitable for them but if you are one of the small minority that ends up struggling to find a suitable combination then it can certainly be frustrating. These types of “risk/reward” choices are all part of each person’s personal value equation.
The awareness uses three 3" layers of latex so there are no lower quality materials and there wouldn’t be any weak links in the mattress.
Most people are fine with their initial combination of layers and only a relatively small percentage of people have more difficulty finding a combination that is suitable for them but if you are one of the small minority that ends up struggling to find a suitable combination then it can certainly be frustrating. These types of “risk/reward” choices are all part of each person’s personal value equation.
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Well, once you’ve felt “bliss” so to speak, then anything less is going to be a disappointment and knowing me, I’m going to want to tweak it until it’s just right. I just don’t know how long that’ll take (and at what additional expense, if the first time is not a charm). In reality there’s only an $800 difference, which also doesn’t factor in free mattress disposal by the local dealer - a cost and hassle I’d have to bear myself when mail ordering. The non-prorated warranty from NMS is a bit better than SleepEZ as well: 12-year 1" vs 10-year 1.5". But now, if the Natural Mattress Store for some reason won’t honor their 12-year warranty because I’m not using their foundation, well then, that’ll probably put them out of the running because their foundation price is just silly.
PS, you’ve just got to love their page about competitors here. “Organicpediculous mattresses”. LOL!! Ya, I’d say so knowing what I know now!!
FWIW … there is more information in this topic about disposing or recycling an old mattress.
Some of the page is certainly funny but some of it is really misleading information and speaks more negatively about their own knowledge than it does about some of their competitors. They are also referring to themselves as having an organic mattress when they only have mattresses that contain some organic components (at least OMI (Organicpedic) is one of only two manufacturers that actually does have some have certified organic mattresses). I’m also still trying to figure out how these two statements can be in the same paragraph …
[quote]We are not interested in trying to guess at your comfort level in a phone conversation. We manufacture and sell our mattresses in the bay area. We want you to come to one of our stores and take your time in choosing the organic mattress that is just right for your comfort and support.
However, if you don’t live in the bay area and want to sleep on an Eco-Cloud mattress, but don’t know which one to choose call us. We have developed a precise system for estimating which one will work best for you.[/quote]
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding when you pull the trigger.
FWIW … there is more information in this topic about disposing or recycling an old mattress.[/quote]
Thanks, ya I’ll check it out. I hadn’t found any local charities yet that would take it. And of course places like 1-800-GOT-JUNK are going to charge fees.
Some of the page is certainly funny but some of it is really misleading information and speaks more negatively about their own knowledge than it does about some of their competitors. They are also referring to themselves as having an organic mattress when they only have mattresses that contain some organic components (at least OMI (Organicpedic) is one of only two manufacturers that actually does have some have certified organic mattresses). I’m also still trying to figure out how these two statements can be in the same paragraph …
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This is news to me, as a run-of-the-mill shopper who has done a fair but not extreme amount of reading. I’ll gladly search the forum to see who the other certified organic mattress manufacturer is. But pretty much all internet dealers I’ve seen also simply label their mattresses as “organic”. Not “contains some organic parts”. They’re all using “natural” and “organic” interchangeably when referring to their Talalay for example. NMS has the GOTS cert and the Latex International certificate indicating the use of natural rubber. I’m satisfied by this. Now the OMI mattress I liked was 2X (yes 100% more expensive) than the NMS “Awareness”, and was Talalay (not organic). And I honestly wonder how many consumers are really willing to pay 2X for the extra certifications carried by OMI. I’m very certainly not. I suspect many folks like the concept of something that is “all natural” and are willing to bear a modest incremental cost for it vs synthetic alternatives. But even that probably has minor tangible benefits if any. Me… I’ve set out to find a comfortable and durable mattress, and a big bonus of these natural mattresses also happens to be the lack of fire-retardant chemicals - VOCs. Beyond that, 100% organic vs mostly organic… I personally do not care, and I’m definitely not willing to double the price for it!!
[quote][quote]We are not interested in trying to guess at your comfort level in a phone conversation. We manufacture and sell our mattresses in the bay area. We want you to come to one of our stores and take your time in choosing the organic mattress that is just right for your comfort and support.
However, if you don’t live in the bay area and want to sleep on an Eco-Cloud mattress, but don’t know which one to choose call us. We have developed a precise system for estimating which one will work best for you.[/quote]
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding when you pull the trigger.
Phoenix[/quote]
Ya, I saw that. It could have been worded much better. Clearly they meant to say they prefer to avoid mail orders, but will work with you if you insist. And I saw other mistakes. How about this one: “latex is virtually inhabitable for dust mites.” Heh. Clearly they meant “uninhabitable”. They do have some proofreading to do, don’t they! I can let it slide.
The first link in post #2 has a great search engine for finding local places to donate, dispose or recycle a mattress and many of them are free if you can deliver it.
There is more about organic certifications in post #2 here. The other manufacturer that makes some organic mattresses is Naturepedic. I tend to agree with you that the organic market is somewhat of a niche market and many if not most people who are looking for organic are really looking for “safe”. Much of the organic marketing in the industry is also somewhat misleading and there are many organic claims for mattresses that at best only “contain some organic components” but for those where organic is important for personal, environmental, or social reasons and who want to buy a mattress that fits a more organic lifestyle then at least it’s nice to know that there are some “completely organic” mattresses available. For example you can see a similar organic mattress to the one you have made by OMI (Organicpedic) here.