Hello!
I’ve been reading a lot about Talalay Latex being natural or organic as being two different things. It seems to me, they should be the same thing. Is it true? Or maybe there are different opinions about this?
Can this foam be blended and still called natural? I’m only asking about this method. ( I know about the Dunlop.)
I hear a lot of this phrase: ‘This is natural Talalay Latex but is not Organic’ This seems like a contradiction in terms. Could you please clarify?
Many thanks!
Hi Cloud99,
100% natural and organic are two different things. 100% natural latex means that the rubber in the latex comes from from the rubber tree and that there isn’t any synthetic rubber in the material. Organic means that not only is the rubber 100% natural but it also meets the criteria for it to be certified organic as well.
There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and there is also more about the different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here.
While both Dunlop and Talalay come in 100% natural versions … there are several Dunlop manufacturers that make certified organic Dunlop but there are no Talalay manufacturers that make certified organic Talalay.
There are no regulations about the use of the term “natural” in the industry so it’s fairly common that a blended material that is partly natural and partly synthetic is called natural yes. For example the blended Talalay that is made by Latex International (now called Talalay Global) is called “natural” and their 100% natural Talalay is called “all natural”. It’s usually a good idea to ask about the specific blend of any latex material you are considering if having natural vs synthetic latex is an important issue for you.
Again there is certainly 100% natural Talalay but there is no 100% natural Talalay that also has an organic certification. I would also keep in mind that 100% natural latex doesn’t mean that the only ingredient in the material is rubber. There is more about 100% natural latex (either Talalay or Dunlop) in post #7 here and post #18 here but all latex (including organic) use other substances in their compounding formula that are required to make foamed latex besides just the latex itself in their formulation.
Phoenix
The terms “natural” and “organic” are bandied about in the mattress industry, quite often improperly.
A latex foam layer can use 100% natural latex, but not be certified organic.
A latex mattress can use latex foam that is certified as organic, but the whole mattress may not be organic certified.
Many latex manufacturers choose not to pursue, for example, the GOLS certification for their mattress due to the expense of such a certification, and because they sometimes do not agree with some of the non-mattress related standards required to be GOLS certified.
I recently spoke with three leading latex mattress companies and they admitted that consumers look at seals and certifications and almost immediately impart extra value or credibility to a brand having such seals. This is one of the reasons you’ll find lesser “certifications” being used on web sites, as the manufacturers know that very few consumers investigate to see what a particular certification actually certifies. I’ll always advise people to take a few minutes to visit the web sites of these certification agencies to see what their credentials actually mean and to see if they have personal meaning.
Consumers often get too far into the weeds with terms like natural or organic, not even being able to define to themselves what that terms means. I think it ultimately comes down to people wanting a quality product with as few unnecessary harmful chemicals as possible, which is certainly not an unreasonable request.
In the end, if you have two mattresses using the exact some components but one is, for example, GOLS certified and the other is not, is the GOLS certified mattress any better? Empirically, it is not. But if having that certification is important to you and it makes you sleep better knowing that your mattress has that seal, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing the latter versus the former. Just be informed as to what that certification actually means.
[quote=“MattressToGo” post=52667]The terms “natural” and “organic” are bandied about in the mattress industry, quite often improperly.
A latex foam layer can use 100% natural latex, but not be certified organic.
A latex mattress can use latex foam that is certified as organic, but the whole mattress may not be organic certified.
Many latex manufacturers choose not to pursue, for example, the GOLS certification for their mattress due to the expense of such a certification, and because they sometimes do not agree with some of the non-mattress related standards required to be GOLS certified.
I recently spoke with three leading latex mattress companies and they admitted that consumers look at seals and certifications and almost immediately impart extra value or credibility to a brand having such seals. This is one of the reasons you’ll find lesser “certifications” being used on web sites, as the manufacturers know that very few consumers investigate to see what a particular certification actually certifies. I’ll always advise people to take a few minutes to visit the web sites of these certification agencies to see what their credentials actually mean and to see if they have personal meaning.
Consumers often get too far into the weeds with terms like natural or organic, not even being able to define to themselves what that terms means. I think it ultimately comes down to people wanting a quality product with as few unnecessary harmful chemicals as possible, which is certainly not an unreasonable request.
In the end, if you have two mattresses using the exact some components but one is, for example, GOLS certified and the other is not, is the GOLS certified mattress any better? Empirically, it is not. But if having that certification is important to you and it makes you sleep better knowing that your mattress has that seal, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing the latter versus the former. Just be informed as to what that certification actually means.[/quote]
This is a great post from an industry expert that confirms what I concluded on my own a few months back when I purchased a new latex mattress. The summary of my opinion then and now is:
may [quote]
True “Organic” (certified) will command a higher price tag than “Natural” but doesn’t have any practical benefits.
[/quote]
It’s become obvious to me that “Organic” (not-certified) also commands a higher price tag. IMO a higher price isn’t justified unless a supplier is willing to pay for certification and inspections. Example: 100% Organic Wool that is higher priced but is not certified Organic. IMO some suppliers simply take advantage of the terminology to justify a higher price (profit) which is passed on to consumers.
If a manufacturer is using Eco Wool, a better term would be “organically processed” versus 100% organic.
Organic and Healthy Inc. makes it much clearer than most other manufacturers.
Discussions of this nature may also bring about some tough questions being asked of manufacturers recommended by TMU.
One question that customers should ask before buying an all natural or organic mattress is :
What difference will it make to spend extra money to get such certifications?
There is no need to sleep on a natural mattress unless your home is all natural as well.
Are the paints used in the home free of VOC’s ?
Are the varnishes on the floor non toxic?
What is the quality of the air like in the home?
Are you being bombarded by cell towers and wifi ?
and the list goes on…
My point is, what difference will it make if you have a certified mattress in this kind of environment?
Why spend extra money money for an all natural mattress, if your environment is toxic?
In the end, an all natural mattress will not make you any healthier, if the environment it’s placed in, is toxic!
We sell organic and natural mattresses, but we only suggest them to those that have severe allergies, sensitivities, and certain medical conditions such as fibromyalgia. These individuals are usually aware that the condition of their home is as important if not more than the mattress they sleep on. and will address these issues before investing extra money in a specialty mattress.
As for the rest of us, I myself have been sleeping on a polyurethane/latex foam mattress for the last 20 years and have no health issues… I think we have to be careful of what the media feeds us, and be wise enough to funnel through the information in order to make an intelligent choice. I Believe the foam products made in North America are safe, and there is no reason to spend extra money on a specialty mattress, unless I have a medical condition that requires so. Or I am devoted to live in a chemical free environment and have taken the step to build a home with these specifications, and once I’m all done, my crowning achievement would be to sleep on an organic latex mattress.
Think about It! :huh:
MFC,
According to Nature’s Embrace, their wool is not certified organic or at least they do not provide certification documents. That means the customer who really needs and or warrants an Organic Mattress Set has to “assume” the wool is organic since there is no certification made available.
http://www.naturesembracelatex.com/certification.htm
Is there documentation?
I disagree, and find the comparisons invalid - apples and tangelos if you will.
Further, I’m not sleeping with my face pressed up against my floors, walls, etc. Every night, however, I lay down on top of my mattress and breathe in and out for 6-7 hours. Chemicals that are soaked into mattress components for fire prevention, for example, also don’t have the hardeners and sealers as in paint and furniture/flooring finishes.
It’s become obvious to me that “Organic” (not-certified) also commands a higher price tag. IMO a higher price isn’t justified unless a supplier is willing to pay for certification and inspections. Example: 100% Organic Wool that is higher priced but is not certified Organic. IMO some suppliers simply take advantage of the terminology to justify a higher price (profit) which is passed on to consumers.
If a manufacturer is using Eco Wool, a better term would be “organically processed” versus 100% organic.
[/quote]
Yeah, this is a good point and brings up another annoyance: terminology invention. “Eco Wool” is really a worthless term simply because it’s not industry-recognized. It seems to me that it’s just some ad hoc label that a single reseller has invented in a poor attempt to differentiate. And I really wonder how many consumers who actually pay for uncertified “Eco Wool” really know what that means, and how if at all it’s really different from garden variety “natural” wool. And quite honestly, why should I trust any reseller who tells me their “Eco Wool” is different than someone else’s “natural” wool in the absence of any documentation?
Here’s a thought: instead of inventing new buzzwords and engaging in other forms of marketing wizardry, why not simply strive to offer high quality products at competitive prices with the best customer service.
Hi LIGMDAD
1-VOC’s are found in paints, and yes they do diminish over years.
But they are also found in
paints, lacquers, varnishes and paint strippers
pesticides
household cleaning supplies
building and upholstery materials
copiers and printers
certain cosmetic products, including nail polish remover
permanent markers
certain craft glues and adhesives
certain dry-cleaning chemicals
fuel and automobile emissions
All items that most are exposed in their homes
http://www.ewg.org/enviroblog/2008/05/cheatsheet-volatile-organic-compounds
Most household furniture made in China is loaded with high VOC from vinyls and foam that are loaded with fire retardants and cause serious health issues.
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/queen-of-green/faqs/toxics/how-to-avoid-toxic-flame-retardants-in-the-home/
3-Yes the quality of the air can be measured, but how many people actually do it and filter it before buying an organic mattress?
4-In my research I have found that electromagnetic smog does exist and is a real threat to our health
You are correct when you say that you don’t sleep with your face pressed up against the walls, however VOC are airborne, so you will breathe them, like it or not.
My point is that if you want to make a real difference and avoid contaminants, you have to do it in your home and not just in your bed. If not its like ordering an organic BIG MAC and hoping that because its organic it will make you healthy…Sleeping on an organic mattress may slightly reduce your risk of getting ill, however we have to look at the bigger picture
Sincerely 
Hi PapaMike
You are correct it’s not certified organic yet but they are working on it. For now it’s called 100% virgin wool and therefor is not mixed with cheaper synthetic fibers.
Cheers!
Hi PapaMike,
I would be careful what you believe because while an organic certification does add to the cost of a product … an organic product may not be more costly or even be “better” than another product where the manufacturer decided not to certify their product. While it’s certainly true that some manufacturers take advantage of consumer naivete or lack of knowledge about organic descriptions or certifications and what they really mean … there are many others who don’t and for members of the forum that are better informed and know how to make more meaningful comparisons and how to ask “better questions” it would be much more difficult to take advantage of them than it would be to take advantage of the general public that doesn’t have the same knowledge.
I’m not so sure of the benefits of adding another “organic” term to the mix such as “organically processed” that has no specific or defined meaning and would just add to more to the “organic” confusion IMO. If a material is certified (either with a USDA organic certification for raw materials or a GOTS certification for a finished product) then it’s organic … if it’s not certified then it can be “natural” or “pure” or “chemical free” etc but it wouldn’t be organic even if it used organic farming methods to produce it. Adding more terms that then need to be defined just goes further “into the weeds” with conflicting or unclear terminology.
I think that “tough questions” are a good idea for anyone that is purchasing a mattress from any manufacturer or retailer whether they are a member of the site or not.
The members of the site are probably more knowledgeable and transparent and better prepared to deal with most “tough questions” than more than 90% of the industry although of course they aren’t necessarily perfect either.
Phoenix
PS: There is some good information about The Wool Gatherer and Eco Wool on their site here and also in the different sections on the Shepherds Dream site here as well
Phoenix,
I made that statement so don’t blame it on LJGMDAD. :cheer:
Hi PapaMike,
I just realized that and I edited who the post was addressed to and added some additional comments as well
Phoenix
I agree that adding more to the mix gets more confusing.
BTW, organically processed wasn’t my definition. I borrowed it from the Healthy Living site who used it to describe Eco Wool.
These spirited conversations bring a lot of awareness and learning to the table for all of us and for that I’m thankful and appreciative.
Keep up the good work and thanks for your eternal patience.
Hi LJGMDAD,
Surely you’re not suggesting that a manufacturer of a high quality product that is better than most others in the industry shouldn’t have a name for their product to differentiate themselves from other products? Eco Wool is a trademarked name not a “description” of a product. They make no representations that it is organic.
You are also completely incorrect that Eco Wool is just some “ad hoc” product and if you take the time to look at their site here or the sections of the Shepherd’s Dream site here you would be able to read a little more about what The Wool Gatherer in general and what Eco Wool specifically is and what it isn’t.
Better yet … if you talk with Nathan you will discover that he is one of the most knowledgeable and highly respected people in the industry when it comes to wool and his business is part of his own passion and vision. If you talk with him you will learn more in half an hour than you may imagine and it may even change some of the opinions or assumptions that you currently seem to believe so strongly.
Phoenix