I have a simmons ben hill elite pillow top mattress which I think is a little firm.
Would adding a 19 ild latex topper be too soft?
Is there somewhere I could buy a 100% natural 19 ild latex topper?
Astrabeds.com has one available for $340 after the coupon and they say it’s 100% natural but I don’t know if I trust that site or if it’s 19 ild they call it ultra soft and they list their ultra soft mattresses with 19 ild.
Does anyone have an idea on where to buy one?
Thanks.
Habitat furnishings has a 100% natural talalay 3 inch topper for $469.
It makes me nervous astrabeds is so cheap I don’t know if they’re trustworthy.
I agree with sleeping that adding a 3" soft latex topper to a mattress that already has thicker layers of softer material in the comfort layers would be quite a big change. You can see the topper guidelines I would use in post #2 here and the posts it links to and an extra 3" of soft material would be in the range of “a fair bit to a lot” in terms of extra pressure relief and could be quite risky in terms of alignment over a mattress that already has a fair bit of lower quality softer foam in the comfort layers that will soften more rapidly over time.
The layering of the Ben Hill Plush Pillowtop is as follows …
1" PurFoam Plush
1" PurFoam Luxury Firm
1.25 oz. Celestra
Coil System: Alternating Smart Reponse Pocketed Coil
1/2" Energy Foam
Coil Gauge: 15
360 Degree True 3" Encased Edge Support
As you can see there is 5 1/2" of lower quality polyfoam in the upper layers of this mattress which would generally be considered quite soft overall and because the polyfoam is lower density/quality it will also be subject to more rapid softening over time.
I would be very cautious adding that much more soft layers to any mattress that already has comfort layers (including the pillowtop) that are that thick and soft.
I would be aware that if a latex topper is listed specifically as 19 ILD then it is probably blended Talalay which is a high quality and very durable material but not 100% natural. One of the softness levels for blended Talalay made by Latex international is 19 ILD and it typically has an ILD variation of about +/- 2 ILD across the surface. If it’s 100% natural Talalay or Dunlop then the firmness levels across the surface would have a wider variance than blended Talalay. If the latex comes from Latex International and is 100% natural then they aren’t rated in specific ILD’s and their N1 could be anywhere from 14 ILD to 19 ILD and their N2 could be anywhere in the range from 20 ILD to about 25 ILD.
Some of the better sources for latex toppers I’m aware of are listed in post #4 here.
A forum search on Habitat (you can just click this) will bring up more information about them.
Do you know anyone who offers 100% natural talalay mattresses and toppers with the n1 rating system?
Sites like flobeds, sleep ez foam sweet home and habitat all claim 100% natural talalay with no synthetics and 100% botanical which from I understand synthetics are not.
Has anyone verified their legitimacy?
They all have As with the bettee business bureau.
I always thought I’d like memory foam but I bought a 3 inch thick tempurpedic topper and it was so hard that it hurt my back and the same goes for their symphony pillow which was a nightmare with how hard it was. I don’t like how it has to heat up to soften andand it still didn’t soften a lot. Then I tried a rejuevnite latex pillow the other day and I was blown away. If it’s good enough to be a pillow it should be good enough to sleep on in my opinion sort of.
There are several sources of both natural and blended Talalay in the list I linked. Both Flobeds and SleepEz (and others on the list) sell both blended talalay and 100% natural Talalay and they certainly don’t claim to only sell 100% natural (there are many people who prefer blended Talalay over the 100% natural). It’s only one of their options. Foam Sweet Foam only sells 100% natural and I don’t know for certain about Habitat. Latex International calls it’s blended Talalay “natural” and its 100% natural talalay “all natural” so there are many places that confuse the two because of the silly naming convention they use. If Habitat provides a specific ILD that is on the Talatech ILD scale then it’s probably blended but I do know the sources on the list will provide accurate information about their products. Most of the sources listed that sell 100% natural talalay can probably special order N1 even though they are not comfortable selling it because it is less durable than higher ILD’s. Sleep Like a Bear also carries every type of talalay in every softness level that Latex International makes. Radium also has a similar range of ILD’s in 100% natural Talalay as well and many of the manufacturers on the list carry their talalay as well.
There should be a warning on here about astrabeds not actually selling 100% natural talalay when they claim they do. They list their softest bed with 19, 24, 28 and 36 ild layers and if I’m not mistaken all of those ilds only comes from latex international’s synthetic line and they charge a lot that bed costs $2,849 in queen but they have a $200 off thing. Also the web site looks like they try and make it seem like they actually harvest the rubber themselves and make it in a factory which I was skeptical of. “Our certified factory uses patented zero emissions technology in the manufacturing and refining process” and they further talk about how when they make their latex they use only basic ingredients of latex liquid, air and water and that their manufacturing plant plant emits no harmful elements in to the air . They are a scam!
Hey phoenix what bed do you sleep on just out of curiousity?
A forum search on Astrabeds will bring up more comments about them including post #2 here and a chat record of a conversation I had with them where they tried to tell me that their blended Talalay was 70% natural and 30% synthetic (rather than the other way around) in post #3 here.
I couldn’t believe the original mattress factory had a latex core bed but on both sides put poly foam. I didn’t say anything, but after, I was like doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of buying a latex bed? They also charged a lot too.
Some people actually prefer a thin quilting layer of polyfoam over the latex. Latex is very resilient and polyfoam lowers the resiliency of the sleeping surface and gives different surface feel. Like so many things there are many individual preferences. If the quilting layer is in the range of an inch or so or less then it would just modify the surface feel of the latex but I don’t think it defeats the purpose of latex. Of course once you get into the range of 2" or more (like many of the major brands) then the polyfoam begins to dominate what you feel and can become the weak link of the mattress.
The “other” OMF I think you’re referring to has a two sided Talalay latex mattress that has a 6" core and then 1.5" of convoluted latex on each side and then an inch of polyfoam in the quilting. For a two sided mattress with 9" of latex it’s actually a good price and value compared to similar mattresses and would make a good choice if it was suitable in terms of PPP.
I thought he said it was polyurethane based and it seemed rather thick for a 6" core because it’s a thicker mattress but the web site does say it’s convoluted latex material. Either way, for $1,600 it felt cheap not very solid. I went to an organic store and laid on a savvy rest mattress and was floored it was the best mattress I’ve ever laid on. And the foam sweet foam is like $1,900 while the savvy rest runs around $3,500 which is a crazy huge difference for the exact same bed.
I also liked that the layers weren’t glued you could open the mattress and it just felt just like a more expensive bed it was also very soft and supportive and figuring it’s only $300 more it’s just a no brainier.
You can’t "feel’ the quality of a material and softer Talalay latex has this type of “feel”. Original Mattress Factory also puts all their mattresses (including their latex mattresses) on an “active” innerspring instead of a solid foundation which also has a fairly significant effect on how it “feels”.
These are also latex but a different type (they carry 100% natural Dunlop and Talalay) and the design and firmness levels are very different which is how a very similar material can feel so different. Every mattress category has a very wide range of different designs and “feels” even though the materials are the same or similar.
I completely agree with you here which is why I generally describe Savvy Rest as “good quality but poor value” and a good place to test different latex layers but not necessarily to buy them. I wish they would reduce their prices which are very high compared to several other mattresses that use the same materials and design.
Yes … there are many advantages to a “choose your own component” design with a zippered cover and it can not only allow you to customize the mattress before a purchase but you can also re-arrange or exchange layers to customize it after a purchase as well or if one of the layers wears out faster (usually the softest layer on top) you can replace just a layer without replacing the entire mattress. There are quite a few manufacturers including some of the members here which have variations on this type of mattress which certainly reduces the risk of an online (or even a local) purchase.
The guy at the original mattress factory said it was their softest mattress they had and to me it didn’t feel that soft maybe that was why I thought felt cheap it just didn’t seem very special to me. He also seemed like he lambasted me when I asked him what the ild was like do you even know what that means its different than density and I remember him telling me the core’s ild but I don’t remember if the top and bottom layers had an ild I wasn’t really paying attention I was more focused on the bed. He really was an awful salesman he wasn’t very polite, nice or professional I wanted him to go away. The people at the organic store were easily 100 times better they were very nice I felt guilty that I wasn’t going to buy one because they were grossly over priced it would have just been donation couple of grand to them with $250 in sales tax. I have a sour taste in my mouth from the original mattress factory even though I read they are ranked the second highest national brand in customer satisfaction right behind tempurpedic. Just figuring the general foam used isn’t quite as good and innersprings have alot of indentation problems I could never buy another innerspring. I wish I knew earlier before I bought mymattress.
That’s unfortunate but not that uncommon to have some salespeople that aren’t “up to par” with regional manufacturers that have many outlets. In most cases their staff are quite knowledgeable about mattress materials but of course with larger companies there are always exceptions.
Actually the foam quality they use is higher than the larger major brands and in most cases they will tell you the density/quality of the layers in any of their mattresses. Knowing the ILD of the layers is not really relevant when you are testing mattresses locally because it’s a “comfort spec” that has nothing to do with the quality of the material and your own testing will tell you more about whether the mattress feels soft or firm than ILD specs. They make good quality mattresses that generally have good value. Of course the quality of a material has little to do with what it feels like (although it has a lot to do with what it feels like years down the road).
This is actually another one of the “mattress myths” that is widely believed. The springs in an innerspring mattress will rarely fail and the indentation problems are usually caused by the use of lower quality materials and foam above the innerspring … especially with the major brands. An innerspring mattress that uses high quality foam in the comfort layers (such as higher density memory foam or polyfoam or latex) can be a very durable mattress that lasts for a very long time … and if it is made two sided it will last even longer.
I don’t think savvy rest can offer lower prices since their products are sold through 3rd party stores and that means that savvy rest needs a chunk of the pie and so does the retailer. From what I understand these online stores order their own latex and build the mattress themselves cutting out the middle man and offering lower prices. I’m sure if savvy rest only offered their products online or through their own show rooms and no 3rd party stores they might be able to offer lower prices, but since they’re a bigger name brand I’m sure they’d still be spendy.
I think this may be part of the story of course but it’s not all of it and I think their margins are also higher than the norm in the industry and have a built in “organic” premium that has more to do with what the market will bear and the story attached to them than the actual cost of materials.
For example you can see an example of the “all natural” PLB Nature (which uses 10" of the same 100% natural Talalay from Latex International) which is also a wholesale manufacturer and is widely available in retail stores and is advertised for $3099 here (queen) and for $2999 here which is less than the 9" all natural Serenity Talalay mattress made by Savvy Rest which retails for $3449. The Savvy rest has wool quilting of course which adds to its cost but the PLB also has 1" more of latex and the advertised prices are controlled by MAP pricing and include very high margins so their advertised prices don’t undercut the prices of the manufacturers that Latex International also supplies.
In most cases wholesale manufacturers have higher volume and lower margins so that their retailers aren’t building their own margins on top of wholesale margins that are already high. If I had to guess I would say that the margins in between the manufacturing of the latex and the final sale to a customer are too high for them to be truly competitive for informed consumers that know they have other options for mattresses that use the same materials.
That’s not to say that they don’t compete well with mainstream mattresses … only that they don’t compete so well with better value mattresses that use similar materials and are available across the country.
Hrm sleep ez just told me their natural talalay is 80% natural and 20% organic even though they advertise 100% natural. At that point I’m sure it’s not a big deal at all but they shouldn’t advertise 100% natural if that’s now what they meant in their organic line I’m going to follow up to make sure.
I think I’m going to bite the bullet on a foam sweet foam when I’m ready.
I think you’re misinterpreting what you were told and their attempts to inform you correctly and give you accurate information were misunderstood.
100% natural Talalay means that 100% of the rubber in the latex core is natural rubber (as opposed to synthetic rubber or SBR) and by “convention” these are usually referred to as 100% natural latex meaning that all the rubber that is used to make the foam is natural. All latex (Dunlop or Talalay) also uses other chemical ingredients besides just the liquid rubber to make the foam which includes gelling agents, curing agents, soaps, accelerators, fillers in some cases, antioxidants, and other ingredients in their formula. The specific formula that each latex manufacturer uses is proprietary and a closely guarded secret. This means that somewhere between 80% and 95% of the foam (or perhaps slightly higher) is actually natural rubber even though all of the rubber in the formula is 100% natural. If there are no fillers used in the formulation then the natural latex content would generally be 95% or higher.
This would apply to all manufacturers that use 100% natural latex in their mattresses (Dunlop or Talalay) … there is no latex foam of any kind that only has 100% natural rubber in the formula because it wouldn’t be possible to make the foam.
I’m not sure where this came from but there are only two people who normally answer the phones at SleepEz and both of them are well aware that there are only two manufacturers of 100% natural Talalay latex in the western world (Latex International and Radium) and neither of them use SBR (synthetic latex) in their 100% natural formulations. Shawn told me today when I asked that he just couldn’t imagine telling this to anyone when it isn’t correct.
In any case … regardless of how it happened and just to clarify the information … 100% natural Talalay from both manufacturers only uses natural rubber (NR) and doesn’t have any synthetic latex (SBR) in the formulation.