Need advise on choosing latex for a diy mattress

Discussions
1

Personal history:
For decades I was able to sleep on anything and get great sleep and have tons of energy. The last 5-10 years not so much. I tend to have aching joints, muscle and nerve pain from decades of hard labor. I’ve also developed sleep apnea and can only sleep on my side now. I was diagnosed a couple times with fibromyalgia but I don’t believe it since that pain goes away when I can sleep for 10-12 hours, it’s likely just exhaustion from sleep deprivation. I’ve come to realize my old worn out mattress needs to go since I wake in a lot of pain and exhausted after tossing and turning all night long. The whole side I sleep on tends to go numb by morning especially my whole arm and shoulder. Wake 8-12 times every night going from side to side.

50 year old single male. 5’11" 185lbs and sometimes less in the summer months. If I start sleeping better this will certainly go down when I become more active again. 170-175lbs was very common for a large part of my life. No spine or back problems, just occasionally when I’m super run down. My nose is very sensitive and I buy everything scent free now. My memory foam topper smelled terrible for a year or two. I’m hoping to avoid that this time and decided to try natural latex.

Current bed:
Current set up is a platform bed with plywood, Serta coil spring mattress which appears to have a couple inches of foam on top which is flat now(mattress firmness no idea), 3" memory foam topper and 2" of quilted pillow top. Interestingly the memory foam seems as good as the day I bought it, likely over a decade ago. It was the best most expensive stuff I could find at the time. It’s likely that I’m sinking through the top layers and feeling the pressure of a firmer mattress. Obviously I need to completely start over.

DIY bed:
Do it yourself projects are in my genetics so when I spent days and weeks online researching mattresses I came across all the diy stuff. I learned a ton and eventually found this forum which has been very helpful. Most of what I’ve read online is generalized and doesn’t really help a person work out the details. I’m hoping I can ask some questions here to narrow things down a bit. At least get pointed in the right direction to get started with.

I’m looking at doing a simple build using 100% natural organic latex toppers. They will be easy to swap and move around for cleaning. Three layers at 3" each seems to work well for a lot of people of my height and weight. I’m mostly stuck on deciding what densities to get. Everything I’ve read says to go with a medium soft mattress for my size, sleeping position and condition.

The place I plan to buy from recommended their soft, medium, firm combo which I believe is Dunlop. I had been thinking soft, medium, medium combo since I seen that worked well for someone else that was slightly bigger at 6’1" 200lbs.

Here’s the plan so far:
Plywood platform bed
mattress rug or pad for airflow under the mattress
base layer of medium(26ild 4.7lb) or firm(34ild 5.3lb)
mid layer of medium(26ild 4.7lb)
top layer of soft(20ild 4lb)
zippered mattress cover, possibly padded, sometime in the future after testing mattress

I would very much appreciate any insights on choosing latex densities. There really doesn’t seem to be any source online that will help you fine tune before you buy. Most places seem to lump everyone into side, back or stomach sleepers which doesn’t help much at all.

2

Hi RobK and welcome to the Mattress Underground :slight_smile:

It certainly sounds like you have had a painful time on your old mattress! As we age our bodies can drastically change comfort and support needs, as you have seen with your old Serta; interesting the memory foam topper seems ‘as good as new’, as memory foam produced by the major brands can be of less dense inexpensive foam, and as these major brands are not very forthcoming about the materials and densities of their components, it’s difficult to assess their comfort and support for any consumer.

Keep in mind any mattress you choose will be unique to you, based on your Stats (height, BMI, sleeping position(s) and any underlying health conditions), and your PPP (Posture & alignment, Pressure relief and Personal preferences). As you can see by comparing the Mattress Specifications You Need To Know to the Mattress Durability Guidelines, latex is one of the most durable of materials, and a DIY latex mattress can be ultimately most rewarding, if you are willing to possibly need a little trial and error to zero in on the correct comfort and support.

I’m looking at doing a simple build using 100% natural organic latex toppers. They will be easy to swap and move around for cleaning. Three layers at 3" each seems to work well for a lot of people of my height and weight. I’m mostly stuck on deciding what densities to get. Everything I’ve read says to go with a medium soft mattress for my size, sleeping position and condition.

The place I plan to buy from recommended their soft, medium, firm combo which I believe is Dunlop. I had been thinking soft, medium, medium combo since I seen that worked well for someone else that was slightly bigger at 6’1" 200lbs

First, keep in mind that Talalay has a quite different feel than Dunlop; Talalay is considered ‘bouncier’ than Dunlop (the comparison is usually angel food cake compared to pound cake), so if possible you might try each type in a local showroom just to see which you prefer…and you probably want an organic, rather than natural, latex due to your sensitive sense of smell. Also, as everyone has unique Stats and PPP, just because a certain build worked for one person, even if similar BMI, does not mean it will work for you. Only you can judge what feels comfortable.

Here’s the plan so far:
Plywood platform bed
mattress rug or pad for airflow under the mattress
base layer of medium(26ild 4.7lb) or firm(34ild 5.3lb)
mid layer of medium(26ild 4.7lb)
top layer of soft(20ild 4lb)
zippered mattress cover, possibly padded, sometime in the future after testing mattress

There are no inherent problems with your build, but again, the densities of the latex are for you to decide…with a slightly higher BMI, a medium firm or firm support layer would provide a good support layer. The mattress pad is fine, and again the ‘firm-medium-soft’ or ‘medium-medium-soft’ are both workable solutions, it just depends on your preferences. The reason retailers ‘lump’ consumers into sleeping positions is because that, as part of a consumers’ Stats, are a good way to assess how much firmness they need. As a side sleeper, you need adequate support for your hips and shoulders; when you lay on a supportive mattress, your profile from the back should be the same as if you were standing up. Sinking too far in can cause alignment issues and muscle pains. In the same way, latex densities are also mostly a personal touch - as long as you have adequate support, the rest is fine tuning. A mattress you consider too soft could be too firm for another sleeper…this is why it’s important to take your time and also give yourself time with the new mattress to break it in and also accustom yourself to it. It can seem frustrating, but the end results are worth it. You might also want to read @Phoenix on Putting The Layers Together to get a better idea of how the layers all work.

I know you said you are looking at a local retailer, but several of the Trusted Members of the site, such as DIY Natural Bedding, CozyPure, and DIY Mattress among others, are highly experienced in assisting with DIY builds…if you provide a little info like your Stats, PPP, and mattress history, they can guide you through the process of finding the right comfort and support layers, and have generous exchange policies, as it’s not uncommon to exchange a layer if it doesn’t feel right for you.

One final note - check with whoever you decide to purchase your layers from to make sure your platform base is compatible, so that you don’t accidentally void any exchange of return policies if you need to take advantage of them.

You should hold off buying the mattress until you have the desired comfort/support balance …depending on the results of your experiments he may need to add/remove exchange some layering. It may be a good idea to look for a retailer with a good return/exchange policy.

I wish you success with your project and look forward to hearing your experiences once you have had some time with your build!

~ Basilio

3

First of all I’d like to thank you for taking the time to write such a lengthy response. I’m sure it took you a considerable amount of time. Very much appreciated.

My old 3" twin memory foam topper could be an anomaly. I wish I could remember the brand, where I bought it from and how old it is. At least a decade, I’m certain. It’s quite dense and heavy and I paid hundreds of dollars for it. I’m pretty certain at the time I read the cheap ones don’t last. It’s just a twin so super easy to flip and rotate it every 2-4 weeks along with my mattress and pillow tops. Planning on doing the same with all the new layers.

The problem I have at this point is I don’t have access to different latex densities to try them out so I have no idea what I like or what will work. That is the main reason I’m here, to get a better idea of what to order for the different layers. I’ll probably steer clear of talalay since the majority of it is blended. I really don’t want to be dealing with the off gassing of synthetics again. I know it’s possible to get 100% natural talalay but I don’t have the budget for it.

Another reason for choosing latex is that I sleep hot. My best sleep is when my room is in the 50’s. If it gets to upper 60’s I struggle a lot with sleeping.

My mattress history is dismal. Like I said I could sleep on anything with great success. In my teens I just slept on the board in the bottom of an unfilled water bed for year or two, it actually had water in it before that. lol In my 20’s it was just a dirt cheap spring mattress on the floor. 30’s was just a dirt cheap spring mattress on a plywood platform bed. Never owned a box spring. The last decade, 40’s, has got me thinking about mattresses a little. I bought that 3" memory foam because I was starting to get achy. Then I put a pillow top on that maybe 5 years ago. That’s where I’m at now and it’s not working for me. Appears I’ll be thinking about mattresses a lot in my 50’s.

My next step is to educate myself further by reading the links you provided and explore the suppliers that you mentioned. Will do that tomorrow night.

4

I’ve read through all of the resources that you provided in your post. I’ll continue to search and read through more diy posts on the forum.

As far as the base layer goes does it make sense to err on the firm side? Thinking of getting the 3" firm 34ild organic dunlop instead of the 3" medium 26ild organic dunlop. I figure I can always tweak the top comfort layers but if the base does not have enough support to begin with then there’s nothing I can do about that other than replace it with something more firm.

Also from what I’ve read the correct way to stack layers is in progression from firmest to softest and never have softer layers under firm layers. Is this true because I’ve seen it suggested quite a few times to just flip the layers around so your top layer has more support if you need that. Some say this creates a hammock effect which you want to avoid. Any insight would be appreciated.

5

I couldn’t figure out what densities to get so just went with what most people use. I bought three 3" organic latex toppers. Soft, medium and firm from Naturally Nestled. Recent measurements say I’m 5’11" 200lbs. Stacking them up with softest on top it seemed I didn’t sink into the mattress much at all. It felt like I was mostly on top. The stack was more firm than my old spring mattress which was also to firm.

Sleeping on my side was pretty painful. Tossed and turned all night from my shoulders and arms getting very numb and painful. The second night I put my 3" memory foam topper on the stack for 4 layers. Had the same outcome but not as bad. Tonight I put the pillow top back on. It’s looking like this side sleeper is going to need a softer mattress than most people.

I might have to trade the firm bottom layer in for a second layer of soft or medium. Sure would be nice to be able to test these before buying.

6

Last night with the quilted pillow top was better but not ideal. I’m going to try this tonight to see if I even need the firm bottom layer.

Quilted pillow top
3" memory foam
3" soft organic latex topper 20ild Naturally Nestled
3" medium organic latex topper 26ild Naturally Nestled
plywood platform bed

7

Reporting back with the final outcome. Returned the 3" firm 100% organic topper. Bought a 4" memory foam topper which surprisingly doesn’t smell at all, very pleased with that. Also purchased a couple other items, something to help with air flow under the mattresses and a quilted mattresses protector. This is how it stacks up.

plywood platform
3/8" ventilated rubber mat - otherwise known as floor mat tiles that snap together
26ild medium 3" topper 100% organic latex - Naturally Nestled
20ild soft 3" topper 100% organic latex - Naturally Nestled
1.78lbs/cubic foot , about 12ild, 4" gel infused memory foam topper - Novilla
1/2-1" quilted mattress protector to top everything off
deep fitted micro fiber sheets that fit over the entire mattress stack of 10"

The latex and memory foam toppers are not exactly the same dimensions. One inch is close enough for me and not going to bother trimming. This is a softer stack than what most places were recommending for my height and weight. It’s still firm and supportive enough for this princess to sleep decently without sinking in like a hammock. No back problems at all but my arms still get a little numb and painful at times from side sleeping. It’s much better than my old mattress combo. I sleep hot on memory foam but it’s much better than waking up constantly in pain from to firm of a mattress. Unfortunately I had to resort to putting an air conditioner in the bedroom for the summer. Not changing anything in the near future. Down the road when the memory foam goes bad I may spring for an extra soft organic talalay topper.