Need feedback on mattress layering system

Hello!
After hours of research I’ve decided that a Dunlop-process-latex layered mattress is the thing that will work best for us.
Since its important to me to avoid glues, synthetics, petroleum additives, and talalay, I’m thinking about getting 3 - 3 inch queen-sized toppers, a cover and a soild wood slatted foundation to use with the bed we already have.

So I visited a local SavvyRest store and liked their similar layering system but didn’t like their price. At SleepWarehouse online I can get the following in queen-size Dunlop:

3" Med-Firm (ild 28-30) - $350.10
3" Med-soft (ild 16-18) - $332.10

So one decision is whether to get 2 Med-Firm/1 Med-soft versus 1 Med-firm/ 2 Med-soft.
Plans are to see if I can have each layer cut in half lengthwise so that I’ll end up with 6 - 3" pieces.
I understand that Dunlop is the firmest of the latex options and that a characteristic of Dunlop is that one side will be denser/firmer than the other surface. Which I like since there are then more options for switching around the layers.

These are the issues/warnings I’d appreciate feedback on:

  • latex products called ‘latex foam’ are in fact blended with something else - synthetic foam etc - they are not 100% latex rubber.
  • you have to be careful or you’ll be sold a blended product at the price of an all-latex product
  • also be careful about deceptive certifications (organic, all-latex etc)

So how can the consumer be sure what we’re getting. especially if buying from a company that sells different kinds of blends?
Who are the major manufacturers of latex mattresses - is there any certifying body or independent information on the composition of various latex products?

Thanks, I’d really appreciate ideas/feedback on the system and supplier I’ve come up with.
DB

Hi dmbryon09,

I would be a little suspect of an ILD rating of 16 - 18 ILD for a 4.7 lb density (75 kg/cu meter). It is likely higher.

5.2 lb density (83 kg/cu meter) is also likely to be higher than 28 - 32 ILD.

They almost certainly won’t match the Savvy Rest you were testing. There is more about Dunlop ILD in posts #4 and 6 in this thread.

You are correct with this. In an apples to apples comparison of Dunlop and Talalay of the same ILD … the Dunlop will be firmer for most people (if you compress it more than 25% of its thickness) and there will also be a top to bottom difference to some degree. The ILD will also be affected by which part of the 6" core the 3" topper was cut from.

Latex can be made with either synthetic latex, blended synthetic and natural latex, or all natural latex. Of course there are other compounds used in the raw material or used in the manufacturing of the foam (including soaps, fatty acids, sulphur, gelling agents, antioxidants) but with latex that uses all natural rubber the natural latex content will be well over 90% of the total content and usually higher. Synthetic latex is made from Styrene Butadiene which is similar to natural rubber but not the same chemically (natural rubber is mainly polyisoprene).

This is where buying from a better manufacturer or retailer can make a real difference. As you mention there are some outlets where what you think you are buying and what you end up receiving may not be the same.

This is also true. there is much more about this in post #6 here

[quote]So how can the consumer be sure what we’re getting. especially if buying from a company that sells different kinds of blends?
Who are the major manufacturers of latex mattresses - is there any certifying body or independent information on the composition of various latex products?[/quote]

The most important way a consumer can know about the type and quality of the latex they are buying is by dealing with a reputable retailer or manufacturer with integrity, knowledge, and experience. A list of the ones that sell online, that I know well, and recommend as being among the best quality/value mattresses in the country are in post #21 here. If you are looking for latex layers rather than a mattress … then there is a list of suppliers of latex layers in post #4 here.

There are several reputable testing and certifying agencies for latex of various kinds and the more common ones include Oeko-TexEco-institutLGAGreenguardEurolatex …and GOLS (a new latex organic standard similar to GOTS).

Hope this helps.

Phoenix

(Phoenix) would be a little suspect of an ILD rating of 16 - 18 ILD for a 4.7 lb density (75 kg/cu meter). It is likely higher.
5.2 lb density (83 kg/cu meter) is also likely to be higher than 28 - 32 ILD.


So Looking at RockyMountainMattress -
they offer a Dunlop 3" topper 16-18 IFD and state that its 4.75 lb density…and…
a Dunlop 3" topper - 26 IFD and 5.2 lb density
Not trying to cause problems here - just want to make the right decision.
Does this still activate your skepticism radar?
Thanks for your feedback - much appreciated.

Hi dmbyron09,

I would be suspect of any ILD rating in the range of the teens with Dunlop latex that was 4.75 lb density.

This has nothing to do with quality but it will almost certainly be firmer than someone may suspect or who is comparing it to say talalay that has been tested to a similar ILD.

While density is not the only factor in how soft or firm Dunlop may be (there are differences in formulation between different manufacturers) it is a big part of it. It will also vary depending on which part of the core it was cut from (the top 3" of a 6" core is not as dense or firm as the bottom 3" even though the rating may be for the whole core). It will also depend on who is doing the testing because ILD measurements themselves are not always consistent between different testing methods (such as the thickness of the material which is measured which with latex is normally 6"). If you test a 4" piece for example instead of 6" … the ILD rating will be lower but not comparable to a layer where the ILD was tested on a 6" piece.

Sometimes a retailer or manufacturer will list specs that they have been given and any error may originate from a supplier or distributor who somehow assigned it an ILD rating incorrectly but asking questions is always a good idea if the density rating doesn’t seem to match the ILD rating with Dunlop and if you are trying to compare it to a known and accurate reference point that you have tested.

Generally … Dunlop that is really that soft will be in the range of 60 kg/M3.

I think that these types of questions go a long way to solving problems rather than causing them. I think that for those who really want the most “accurate” comparisons between Dunlop that density would probably be closer than ILD (because ILD is so often mislisted) and then an accurate density can be “approximated” in terms of an ILD range. Even a manufacturer that has made some accurate comparisons between a Dunlop layer and other latex layers that are “known” may be able to give a more accurate ILD approximation. For example they may have some 3" layers that are all cut from the top part of a denser core that has a bigger top to bottom difference but “assign” a rating based on what they really feel like instead of the rating from the core itself. In this case the actual density of the top 3" layer would be lower than the density of the listed density of the core itself. Some suppliers actually test the materials they get from other companies rather than just pass on specs they are given (or “translate” them from one system to another) and these may be more accurate if they use “standard” testing methods.

Overall though … I would be skeptical as far as “real life” comparisons between known materials of any Dunlop ILD rating that low that had a density that high. I would “expect” them to feel firmer than they are listed.

Phoenix

Phoenix said:
I would be a little suspect of an ILD rating of 16 - 18 ILD for a 4.7 lb density (75 kg/cu meter). It is likely higher.

5.2 lb density (83 kg/cu meter) is also likely to be higher than 28 - 32 ILD.

They almost certainly won’t match the Savvy Rest you were testing. There is more about Dunlop ILD in posts #4 and 6 in this thread.


Hi again - Re: being able to test mattresses/toppers, I live in an area where there is only one retailer of the 3 inch latex system, a Savvy Rest dealer - nothing else within a 300+ mile radius. So can you please explain the comment about Savvy Rest not being comparable to other 3 inch Dunlop products? Do you happen to know their ild/density info and possibly what manufacturer SRest uses? I do remember the retailer saying their latex is not from Vietnam.

Thanks very much for the information on density versus ILD - that certainly clarifies things. I’m pretty sure now that a soft-soft-MediumFirm would be best for us in the Dunlop toppers that are available from the better value, on-line stores (most only have 2-3 ild options and seem to skew toward firmer rather than softer ilds at that). But I will now discuss density with them when I call as well as what cuts I’d be getting.

Really appreciate your depth of knowledge here,
DB

Hi dmbyron09,

I don’t recall making a comment like this and if I did it certainly isn’t accurate.

Savvy Rest uses CoCo latex in India for their Dunlop and Latex International for their Talalay. In an apples to apples comparison of one Dunlop supplier vs another … as long as you are comparing the same type of latex (100% natural vs 100% natural for example) and they both had a similar density and ILD … they would be very comparable.

While “quality” specs are important (and with latex these would be what type of latex is being used) … “comfort specs” for latex such as ILD or density which have little to do with quality can be much more difficult to find. Because the density or ILD of latex is not a quality issue and because comfort can be tested in person (and this is always more accurate than going by ILD or “theory at a distance”) … there is little incentive for a manufacturer that sells a mattress in a local area to provide the ILD or density of their latex layers. With an online provider … the “comfort specs” are much more important of course because all you have to go by (along with the guidance of the online provider) is the specs because you can’t test it in person until you receive it.

Some local retailers or manufacturers provide more information about the comfort specs of their layering than others and in many cases the “best” you have to go by is approximations if you are trying to match a local provider to an online source.

I don’t know the density or ILD of their Dunlop layers but they would be in the range of 20"s for the soft, 30’s for the medium and high 30’s and 40’s for the firm. Because their Talalay layers use a supplier that is more common (Latex International) … they would be a bit easier to match in the absence of specific information either from Savvy rest or from a manufacturer you were trying to match them with (the 100% natural Talalay only comes in 5 firmness levels and the softest is almost never used). Post #20 here may also be helpful in describing some of the objective and subjective challenges of “matching” the Savvy Rest (or any other mattress) to another one that may seem very similar.

Phoenix