New to the forum; thanks for providing this website. My Mom is 90 years old and suffers from ankylosing spondylitis and rheumatoid arthritis. She has also had both hips replaced, and one shoulder. Her knee is locking, and possibly needs replacement. She sees a specialist who has referred her to a neurologist. He has found minor nerve damage due to her arthritic and spinal problems. Her main sleeping problems are: 1) Because of the hip replacements, she is supposed to sleep on her back, but this causes an arm to become numb, waking her. 2) She therefore sleeps primarily on one side, away from the arm, using a body pillow, (recommended by her doctor), for support. 3) Her mattress is very old, a 6-8 inch latex on top of a box spring. She has been resistant to getting a new mattress but now is more open to the idea. 4) Her neurologist has prescribed gabapentin for her pain and numbness, which helps her sleep, perhaps too soundly. 5) I am concerned about her spinal alignment, support and comfort on the current mattress. And while it seems that medium firm is recommended for her condition, she has preferred medium soft so far in the mattresses she has tried.
The steps we have taken so far include some online research at sleeplikethedead.com, and also finding a website where ankylosing spondylitis sufferers overwhelmingly praise Tempurpedic and Sleep Number in the medium firm range. We began to lean towards memory foam and have taken a close look online at Bed in a Box. We have been to a preferred furniture store and a national chain in the 22901 area of Virginia, with the following results. My Mom tried several mattresses, and both the very helpful salespersons had her try the Tempur Cloud Select, which felt good to her. She also liked the Sealy Ocean Pointe along with the Cloud Select as best supporting the small of her back. She liked the adjustable bed function with the Cloud Select, and because she reads in bed, and suffers acid reflux, we may want to include the right adjustable bed in our search. The national chain suggested she return and try the Serta iComfort line. I then found this website, trying to do all due diligence to find an alternative, “best buy,” as we most often deal with smaller companies which offer the best service and value.
Needless to say we are confused a bit, and any help would be appreciated. We have begun to visit some of the recommended websites here, but don’t know where to turn locally.Trying more than 3-4 mattresses in a day is difficult for my Mom, so any help narrowing our focus will be appreciated. Our budget was initially around $1000, but if we go for an adjustable bed, this would double. Finding the right combination for Mom will supercede any budget concerns.
Thank-you, Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
Just in case you haven’t read it already … the first place I would start is post #1 here which has the basic information, steps, and guidelines that will be most helpful.
Some of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Charlottesville, VA area are included in post #3 here.
Since your mom is used to sleeping on latex I would probably include some latex options in your research because it can be difficult to adjust to the feel of a completely different material when you are older and used to something completely different. If she has had the chance to test both she will probably be able to give you a clear indication of whether she prefers a slower response (memory foam) or faster response (latex) material. In some cases memory foam may restrict movement more than she is comfortable with but her own personal preferences would be important. Either one in the right design can provide her with the best balance between good alignment and pressure relief that are especially important for someone that is facing many health challenges and may have clear preferences no matter what others may find works best for them.
You can see some of my thoughts about bedinabox in post #2 here. They don’t use particularly high quality materials in the upper layers of their mattresses (the memory foam) if durability is an important part of your choice. Some of the better online memory foam options I’m aware of are listed in post #12 here.
One of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase can be the knowledge and experience of the retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with and if I was in your shoes I would initially focus on talking with some of your options on the phone and letting them know what you have posted here and talk with them about what they carry that may be worth considering before you actually visit them. The ones that are only interested in having you walk through their front door without providing you with any information at all or without regard to whether they carry something that may be suitable for your criteria are the ones I would tend to avoid. I would also make sure that they are able to disclose the specifics of what is any mattress that you are seriously considering including the thickness and density of any memory foam or polyfoam layers and the type and blend of any latex. Better retailers and manufacturers are much more comfortable talking about materials than the ones that only like to give you marketing information and are more focused on selling you anything they can instead of educating you and helping you make the best possible choices that fit your personal criteria. If you do much of your preliminary work on the phone first you will save yourself (and your mom) a great deal of time, will avoid testing mattresses that you may like the “showroom feel” only to find out you can’t find out what is in it, and will have a much better sense of which retailers and manufacturers have the knowledge and experience and the selection that you need to make good choices.
The adjustable bed thread here also has some helpful information and includes some links to retailers that I use as a “value reference point”.
Phoenix
Phoenix:
Thanks for your advice. Discussions with my sisters and Mom have led us to the conclusion that since Mom is used to Latex, that we should research that option more thoroughly, concluding that Latex is the best choice. I checked out some of the locally available options and they carry some of the member recommended latex mattresses, but priced well beyond our budget. After some online research and consultation phone calls, we are leaning towards the Reverie Deluxe Adjustable bed, and the Adjustable Ultra Plush Latex Sleep System with 5.6 inch Talalay latex core, medium 32 ILD, and the upgrade choice of a 3 inch Talalay latex topper, (as opposed to the typical 2 inch), in either soft or medium. Ken & Greg of www.mattresses.net have been extremely helpful in answering all of our questions, and educating me and guiding me to this choice.
Thanks, Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
As you know I think very highly of Arizona mattress and have had many great conversations with both Ken and Greg who are both knowledgeable and helpful.
I think that you are probably wise to consider a mattress that your mom is used to … especially when there are options available to make changes to the comfort and support if necessary and they certainly have great quality and value.
I also think that the Reverie Deluxe is also a very good choice (not surprisingly since I also chose the same one).
I hope you will let us know what you end up ordering and of course hopefully let us know how your mom likes it once she’s had the chance to sleep on it.
Phoenix
Phoenix:
As I have continued to research some of the latex options, I came across your post where you mention the mattress you purchased. I called the Mattress Factory and spoke to the owner there and I am intrigued by their 10 inch mattress with 2 inches of Talalay on each side with a Dunlop core. Their price and materials seem an extraordinary value. Did the bed you chose have the Dunlop core?
At this point, I am still a bit confused concerning the different opinions about blended vs natural Talalay and the pros and cons of each, as well as the differing opinions about Talalay vs Dunlop cores and the pros and cons of each. Perhaps if you can speak to these topics, or point me to posts here and to further reading, I can clarify what is best for us. Also, if you can describe why you made the choice you made in detail, it will give us another reference point.
Another question we have concerns the pros and cons of a mattress shipped intact of one piece vs one that has a zippered cover within which we put together the different pieces of latex upon arrival. We know the weight differences, and the flexibility of being able to exchange top layer if firmness becomes an issue. Are there other important factors and considerations?
Thanks, Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
The bed I ordered from them was a Talalay core. To my knowledge they no longer carry Talalay at all so I would confirm that they even have Talalay available.
Post #2 here has more details about natural vs blended talalay.
Post #6 here and post #2 here has more about the different types of latex.
Post #7 here has more about the different “feel” of talalay vs dunlop although the most accurate way to choose between them would be your own experience and personal preferences.
The specifics that we considered in the design were fairly complex and also somewhat experimental that I would normally consider to be “high risk” for someone else and in normal circumstances I wouldn’t suggest basing your choice on the theory behind what someone else chooses. In my case in particular, because my own preferences would have more “weight” on this forum and could be so easily taken to be somehow “better” (when they are just preferences unique to us), it would tend to encourage too many people to become overly analytical and replace their own personal testing with “theory” that was only specific to us. In very general terms it was based on many hours of personal testing which led to the choice of the thickness and ILD of all the layers and the ticking and quilting materials in combination with an intuitive process that tried to “imagine” how all the specific layers, quilting, and materials would interact together with the specifics of our sleeping style, body types, and preferences. This was not a choice that I would recommend for anyone else either in terms of specific layering or in terms of risk (shipping a complete finished mattress where you haven’t tested the specific design across the country with no realistic option for an exchange for either the mattress or individual layers is what I would consider to be a very “high risk” proposition).
For an online purchase where you haven’t specifically tested a mattress that has the same or very similar materials and design I normally wouldn’t suggest ordering a finished mattress that has little possibility for fine tuning or exchanging the mattress or individual layers (without significant cost involved) unless you are willing to take on the much higher risk of ending up with a mattress that may not be suitable for your specific needs and preferences and having to either replace it with another one at a significant expense (and still not being certain that the replacement would be ideal) or selling it and starting all over again. The only way to lower the risk of an online purchase would be to test a mattress that is very close to the same design (in all the layers and components including the ticking and quilting), to have good options and recourse available if you make a mistake in your choices, or you are someone who is very much in the “I can sleep on anything” end of the scale vs the more sensitive “princess and the pea” side of the scale in terms of the range of designs, layer thicknesses, and ILD’s that would be suitable for you. A manufacturer can help give you some insights into what others of your body type and sleeping style may often do well on but this is only based on the “averages” of other people and may not apply to any individual person.
Post #2 here about making comfort and support choices includes links to some of the “theory” behind how different designs interact with different body types and sleeping styles but these are only generic and not specific to any individual and in the end only your own personal testing or experience can really know for certain whether a specific mattress is suitable for you interms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).
Phoenix
Thanks again Phoenix:
Further suggested reading, a call to Latex International, and some local store latex “field testing” still have us leaning still strongly to the Arizona Premium Mattress Full Adjustable Ultra Plush Latex Sleep System in blended Talalay with medium 32 ILD and the 3 inch topper upgrade, blended 19 ILD Talalay.
We are still divided as to the choice of a cotton zippered cover, quilted to 1.5 inches pure, natural New Zealand Joma Wool vs. the
natural Bamboo zippered cover with 1.5 inches of pure natural Joma Wool. We are also wondering if we need a mattress protector. My Mom has no physical need of one; we just wondered if a protector could provide added life / durability to the mattress, and protect against allergens as opposed to any negative trade-offs.
I’ve been considering a Protectabed kit with encasement, protector and pillow cases. After reading some of the relevant posts here, we know do not want any product that would compromise my Mom’s receiving the spinal alignment / support and pain relief characteristics of the latex.
If you have any suggestions for reading, or opinions that could help us make a decision about the cotton vs bamboo, and a mattress protector, it would be helpful.
Thanks, Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
Post #7 here and some of the links inside it will help you compare cotton to bamboo. While it can vary with the blend … in general bamboo is less natural, softer feeling, wicks moisture a little better, and in my experience isn’t quite as strong (but some would argue the other way around).
I would definitely use a mattress protector on a mattress both to help protect the mattress (and the warranty) from the moisture and body oils we emit each night and to hep reduce the effect of dust mites and the allergens they produce. It’s also more hygienic because it’s a lot easier to clean a mattress protector than a cover.
Post #89 here includes some of the pros and cons of different types of protectors. I would lean towards a top mattress protector rather than a full encasement unless your mom has problems with allergies and an encasement is necessary for greater protection against allergens in which case a full encasement with very small micron size pores (cotton or a microporous membrane) would be helpful.
Phoenix
Phoenix:
Probably switching gears at this point from getting the best bed for Mom balanced by budget concerns…to just getting the best bed for Mom, so overall quality of a bed to best enhance her sleep and health, as well as a philosophical belief to attempt to shop locally, now outweigh “value” or “best buy seeking” in our equation.
My Mom did field test a Latex Bliss Nature at a local shop; she loved it as did I. We were offered the mattress for around $2000 plus 2 free Active Fusion pillows and free delivery / setup. Mom felt the Nature was more “firm” than the “Pamper” but the extremely helpful owner and I were able to draw from her the possible conclusion that the Nature was more conforming and comfortable, perhaps more pressure point comfort, as by actual rating, the Pamper is firmer. The owner is someone I know, have done more than satisfactory business with in the past, and would be very comfortable dealing with. My only concern is that from the beginning of our quest, we thought from what little we had read on the subject, was that free floating quality Later layers held together by their own natural adhering as well as by a quality, properly fitted zippered cover, would be better than non-adjustable bonded layers. It is a difficult choice to give up the flexibility of adjustable layers.
In my whole experience, we have not come across anyone who has wide experience with an anklyosing spondylitis sufferer, and we would hate to buy a bed that’s not working for Mom 2-3 months down the road, with the only solution being to try adding a topper.
I’m even going to call Novosbed, as I understand one of their owners suffers this condition.
If you could speak to our considering the Latex Bliss Nature at this point, and your opinion about free floating vs bonded layers
of latex, the pros and cons, it would be most helpful. Latex Bliss is our favored local choice thus far, and at this point, though that means a lot in the equation, it still may have to be outweighed by the final focus of getting the best bed for Mom.
Thanks, Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
Perceptions of firmness and softness can be very subjective but you are right that the nature is actually softer and has more layers of softer latex over the support core and would be more “conforming” for most people. The 6" support core is also slightly softer (36 ILD vs 40 ILD). For most (but not all) people the Pamper is a good base for use with a topper but would be too firm for use by itself … especially if they spend time sleeping on their side.
I don’t think that one is “better” than another in terms of the feel or performance of the mattress. If the mattress is “finished” and you don’t have access to the individual layers then glued layers can help prevent shifting of the layers over time or if you move the mattress. If the mattress has a zip cover and you can access individual layers … then unglued layers allow you to re-arrange or exchange layers to change the feel and performance of the mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or to replace a single layer instead of the entire mattress if that become necessary.
If you have good confidence about the suitability of a local mattress based on careful and objective personal testing (to the degree that is possible) then the odds are lower that you would need to rearrange or change the layers after a purchase. With an online purchase that you can’t test ahead of time to confirm the suitability of a mattress then it would be more important to have good options after a purchase if you make a less than ideal choice. Your or your mom’s confidence about the suitability of the Nature and any options you have available to exchange the mattress for another model in the line or that they have available (rather than just a layer) if you believe this may be necessary would all be part of what I would consider.
The Nature is certainly a good quality mattress that uses high quality materials (blended Talalay) and would be well worth considering and if you have a good degree of confidence that it is the right choice then it’s likely that it would be “close enough” that only minor “fine tuning” would be necessary (using a topper, mattress pad, or mattress protector) if it was needed at all. It may also be worth asking the owner if they could set up the mattress in an area of the store that your mom could spend an hour or so taking a “nap” (assuming that she is comfortable with this) to give the mattress a little longer “test run” to see if this indicates points to any “symptoms” that may show up in her longer term experience.
Phoenix
Phoenix:
Was the bed which you ordered from The Mattress Factory made with blended Talalay, or all natural Talalay?
Thanks, Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
They no longer supply Talalay but mine was blended Talalay in the base layer and natural in the comfort layer. I didn’t really care which it was because the ILD was more important and that’s what he had at the time.
Phoenix
Hi Stephen,
I responded via email but didn’t receive a response. Here’s roughly what I said:
I have had AS since I was 19 (going on 15 years now) and am very fortunate that it is now well-controlled by Humira.
During the first 5 years, when not on medication, I made many dramatic changes to lifestyle that seemed to reduce flare-ups. These changes included:
- diet (eliminated dairy, red meat, alcohol, sugary foods, carbonated pop)
- sleeping habits (avoided sleeping-in, kept room colder, re-positioned myself several times during the night)
- stress reduction (deep-breathing several times daily, focused on having a better attitude, cherished good quality sleep)
There were many other smaller changes that I cannot easily remember as they are now completely integrated in my routines.
As for the mattress: well, someone suffering from AS knows that sleep-quality can make or break flare-ups. Personally-speaking, I switched from spring to foam within a year of being diagnosed and have never looked back. Memory foam/latex/conventional foam are all good options. My mattress is medium-firm to ensure my SI joints are well-padded, but well-supported. It also means that I don’t “sink-in” and am forced to reposition several times during the night - this is of utmost importance in avoiding inflammatory buildup in stationary joints. I have also found that a cooler temperature in the room aids with those nights where inflammation is particularly severe.
Whether Latex or foam, I would steer clear of something too soft, though too hard can exacerbate non-central bone lesions (on the sides of the hips, for example). Medium-firm works best for me. Is your mother a side-sleeper/back-sleeper/front? How severe is her AS?
I’m happy to offer any/all information I can that will help.
Warmest regards,
Sam
Novosbed
Thanks Sam:
Hope you had a relaxing vacation. I did send you a reply, but a couple of days later, we had to close that email username
account because of an attempted phone scam. Anyway, thanks for your reply. Mom’s condition is as follows:
She suffers from medium severe ankylosing spondylitus, a degenerative narrowing of the spine. Her neurologist has told her that he has tracked a slow narrowing (much better than rapid, as she does her therapy & keeps active), over the last 6 months which will probably result in even more pinched nerves, especially in her upper back and neck area. She has been waking with more “cricks” in her neck lately so we will want 2 low profile latex pillows.
She also suffers from severe rheumatoid arthritis, which necessitates pressure point relief. Because she has 2 hip replacements, and one shoulder replacement, she is supposed to sleep on her back, but that makes her left arm go to sleep. Currently, her best sleep is gained on her right side, supported by a body pillow. This over compensation tendency results in her right side and legs waking with stiffness and pain / sometimes swelling. Her right knee is in probable need of replacement, as it continually locks up, with ensuing swelling. She also suffers acid reflux and snoring, so the right adjustable bed and pillows are a key.
During humid & rainy weather, Mom suffers from “pins & needles” nerve pain in her legs, and we believe elevating her legs a bit with the adjustable bed, and the correct spinal support from the mattress, along with a cotton qullted to joma wool cover, will lessen some of this nerve pain. She does limit her dietary intake of the items you mention, including no alcohol.
Balancing her needs is difficult. She needs at least medium firm spinal support. She needs some softness for pressure point relief to hope ease the shoulder / arm numbness which awakens her, and to ease pain in hips, back & knee. Add this to your logical advice
that she should re-position so as to prevent stiffness / swelling / pain etc.
We are in the process of trying to fine tune firmness layers of an adjustable latex mattress so as to give us some options once we get the new mattress upon a Reverie Deluxe adjustable bed.
Thanks for taking time form your vacation to reply, and sorry you did not get our reply sooner. If you can think of any other ideas for us to consider, it will be appreciated.
Stephen
Phoenix:
Back to mattress protectors…as we will end up with a one inch thick, organic cotton, quilted to wool cover, (on either just the top side, or
perhaps all the way around the latex), and we want a thin, yet waterproof protector, thin enough so she can “feel” the latex
as best possible, how would the Luna or Protect-A-Bed Elite coordinate with such a cover. Any other suggestions? We read your
post on covers and narrowed it to the 2 mentioned, but before we decided on the cover mentioned above.
Thanks, Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
If you are looking for a “waterproof” protector that has little effect on the feel of the mattress then the membrane type protectors are really your only choice and either the Luna or the Protect-A-Bed (or any of the rest of the list of similar choices that are mentioned in the mattress protector post or the posts it links to) would make good choices.
If organic or Oeko-Tex certified is important to you then I would choose accordingly but other than that I would choose based on your preference of fabric that is bonded to the membrane, ease of care instructions, and price.
If there are no obvious differences based on other factors … then for me price would be the deciding factor. BobP one of the members here did some good price research in post #1 here.
Outside of these types of criteria I don’t think there are any clear or obvious “winners” between them.
Phoenix
Thanks again Phoenix:
I believe you mentioned you have the Reverie Deluxe Adjustable; ours is on order. Is it a good idea to have a protector / cover around the Reverie foundation, and if so, are there posts here which address that?
Also looking for decent quality organic cotton sheets $50 - $100 range, if there are any pertinent posts which make recommendations.
We are leaning towards the Protect-A-Bed Elite waterproof protector (cotton surrounding thin membrane both sides), but have looked closely at the Natura…which another poster mentioned you had. Just wondering if getting a thicker cotton / wool protector, over top of a one inch organic cotton / wool mattress cover, would lessen some of the benefits of Mom “feeling the latex.” Natura surely seems like an excellent product otherwise.
Stephen
Hi StephenJ77,
I don’t think there is any need to add a protector to an adjustable bed because there is aleady a mattress on top of it and we don’t use one (I don’t know of anyone who does).
Post #7 here and the posts and resources it links to should be helpful 
The Natura would definitely have more of an effect on the feel and response of the latex than a thinner more stretchy protector and while it’s a great quality protector, if I had to do it again I would probably use a wool protector without the membrane (which usually doesn’t have much noticeable effect but there have been a few times where it may have contributed to me sleeping hot).
Phoenix
Phoenix:
Thanks for all of your help and this forum. Over 3 months ago, we made the choice to go with FloBeds. We chose the Organic Natural Talalay Latex vZone Mattress, opting to spend a little more for what we believed might be advanced philosophical and technological approaches to mattress manufacture and sales. We waited for 3 months to write a review so as to see how Mom
would live with the new mattress.
The service and assistance by Dewey, leading up to purchase, was impeccable. As we were confused and disappointed by a few companies when twice we had been ready to buy, Dewey and Dave gave us considerable information, options, and confidence.
Unlike one company who revealed only at the point of purchase that we could not get the member discount plus the free pillows…
FloBeds gave us BOTH, plus a fair and generous discount. And though we ordered our adjustable VZone mattress one week after
we ordered our Reverie adjustable bed from a national discounter, the FloBeds mattress arrived acroos country from west coast to east coast, well packed 3 days BEFORE the Reverie.
The FloBeds VZone is satisfying my Mom much as we expected. She sleeps better, much better, with less pain, less numbness,
less tossing and waking. As opposed to having to get up 2-4 times per night, sometimes to start the heating pad, Mom often sleeps all the way through! As opposed to 3-4 good night out of 7 before, she now has about 6 good nights out of 7. We chose ILDs of 19, 28, and 36 for our 3 layers, and it has worked out well. It took my sister and I about a leisurely 90 minutes to put the mattress together, as we experimented with the many possible adjustments as we went. FloBeds assembly video was most helpful. Our Mom has been so completely satisfied that we have not made any layer or VZone adjustments yet, but it is great to know they are available as my Mom’s back condition may change. The free natural latex pillows were a little “full” and thick for my Mom, so we just emptied out some of the latex, and now they are perfect; she has not had a single crick in her neck and shoulders yet! The mattress and pillow covers are nothing short of pure organic comfort and luxury. Mom sleeps warmer as she needs in the now cold winter, and she was cooler and more comfortable late summer. Her sinus problems are also much improved so far. The Reverie adjustable and the FloBeds VZone have my Mom returning to one of her favorite passions…reading an hour before she goes to sleep!
We found 100% organic sheets at Target and Belk, and those from Target are VERY SOFT and comfortable per Mom. We bought
an organic, zippered allergy mattress protector, and a Natura organic wool puddle pad, and an organic cotton blanket to complete the package. We then took it a step further and bought Mom some all natural organic intimates, nightgowns and a robe. Her allergies
which resulted in congestion and some itching have mostly subsided.
Your website led us to many of these finds, and we can’t thank you enough…our gracious thanks also to Dave & Dewey of FloBeds
and their intelligent and gracious manner of doing business.
Stephen H.
Hi StephenJ77,
Thanks for taking the time to your insights and experiences with FloBeds in such great detail. I really appreciate it.
I’m also thrilled that your Mom is doing so well on the mattress!
It certainly seems like you made an “impeccable” (I love that word) choice in every way in terms of quality, value, and suitability and I’m guessing that your Mom is just as happy at all the great research you did for her.
Thanks again … and congratulations on all your choices
Phoenix