Need Help! Good deal on pure latex bliss - Nature - or maybe not?

Thank you, Phoenix! The mattress in question is supposed to be new and does come with a 20-year warranty. I am going to ask the salesperson for the specs on the mattress, and weā€™ll see what her reply is. That being said, Iā€™m still feeling very wary and after already being burned on one mattress (just sold it today on CL! Yay!) Iā€™m treading very carefully.

Iā€™ve been reading more of your articles and forum information today and now am leaning towards purchasing from Sleep EZ. Of course itā€™s a little disconcerting purchasing a mattress I havenā€™t test driven, but they have a good return policy, they are on your recommended list, and I like what other members have been saying. The only issue is trying to decide which one is the right one for me, but Iā€™m guessing their CS people will be able to assist with that.

Oh, and I did review the list of companies local in the Seattle area. One is right across from Overlake Med Ctr, where I work, and there are several not far from me.

Thank you again!

Carol

Hi cado2012,

With a manufacturing date of 2012 ā€¦ itā€™s not likely that the mattress is either new or that it has a manufacturerā€™s warranty (see their page here which says ā€œProducts do not come with warrantiesā€. I would also keep in mind that a warranty only covers defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or rapid) loss of comfort or support that is the most common reason you would need to replace a mattress. The length of a warranty is never as important as knowing the type and quality of the materials in a mattress and that it has little to do with the quality or useful life of a mattress (see post #174 here). You could always check with Restwell to see if they are an authorized dealer and if they were then they would almost certainly have a number of current Restwell mattresses on their showroom floor.

As you probably know from your reading here ā€¦ Sleep EZ would be a great quality/value choice and a component latex mattress has the advantage of having many options to customize your mattress both before and after a purchase either by rearranging layers or exchanging a layer.

When you canā€™t test a mattress in person then the best way to choose which mattress would likely be best for you would be a more detailed conversation on the phone where they can help ā€œtalk you throughā€ the options they have available that would have the best chance of success based on the averages of other customers that are similar to you (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). Any local testing you have done on different latex mattresses that use either Dunlop or Talalay in different firmness levels so you have some sense of what latex feels like in general and which type of latex you tend to prefer would also be useful.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

As always, your help and guidance is immensely appreciated.

I wound up buying the PLB Nature after 3 sales people, and a friend agreed that my spine appeared to be in alignment. To date, I have slept on the bed for 28 days and initially I found it quite comfortable. In fact, I still do find it comfortable except over the last week my sleeping has caused pretty bad upper middle back pain. I have never felt pain in the area before. The pain first started when I slept on my back, with a pillow under my knees, and either no pillow under my head or an old pancake flat one. Now, I am noticing it when I sleep on my side. I have a thick latex pillow and a new PLB latex pillow which Iā€™ve been alternating on my side. Of note, I did not get the same foundation that was on display with the Nature in the store. Instead, they delivered a PLB covered wooden slat foundation which, to me, appears to be of inferior quality, with the slats at least 5 inches apart. Do you think this could be contributing to my painful upper/mid back? I didnā€™t say anything upon delivery because my plan was to upgrade to an adjustable bed in a couple of months.

Iā€™m open to any corrective action: new pillow? topper? foundation? or exchange? Thank you for your suggestions.

P.S. I wish there was a such thing as a mattress guru, that one could hire and take with to find the perfect bed. A new field! LOL!

Hi rcseisland,

It would certainly be possible yes. The PLB foundation is not particularly good quality and it could be allowing the mattress to sink into the wider gaps. You can see some comments about their foundation in post #44 here and the posts it links to. You could test the effect of the foundation by either sleeping with your mattress on the floor or by putting a sheet of plywood over the foundation to see if it makes a difference in your experience. If this helps then an adjustable bed would also have a solid non flexing support surface and it would provide the same support as having your mattress on the floor or with a sheet of plywood underneath it.

The Nature has 2" of 21 ILD latex over 2" of 28 ILD latex over a firmer support core which is somewhat similar to the Dreamfoam mattress you tried earlier which had 1.5" of softer quilting foam over a 3" layer of 28 ILD latex and since that was too firm for you and given your lighter weight itā€™s also possible that the Nature may be a little on the firm side for you as well and if thatā€™s the case then some of the suggestions in post #2 here may be helpful.

There is also more information in post #2 here about the more common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the possible reasons behind them that may also help you to clarify the types of changes that may help with the ā€œsymptomsā€ you are experiencing.

While there is no way for me to know with any certainty because I canā€™t feel what you feel on a mattress ā€¦ if none of these suggestions are helpful and if I had to guess about the types of changes that may make a difference I would say that you may do better with some additional thickness/softness in your comfort layers.

Phoenix

Thanks for your quick reply. I will check out the referenced posts when I get home from work. I will look into getting a piece of plywood to fit my king sized bed. I suppose Home Depot or Lowes would be the place to go? I found it curious that you think the PLB Nature may be too firm. Although it felt firm for the first couple of nights, it feels soft to me now. I live in S. Fla; perhaps the warmer weather has a softening effect on the foam? If I were to get a topper, do you know of any online sellers with a return policy? I donā€™t mind spending the money if my back issues will be solved, but want the ability to return or at least exchange if it doesnā€™t work out. Iā€™m hoping that the foundation modification solves everything.

Hi rcseisland,

They both sell plywood yes. I would use indoor plywood that is at least 1/2" thick, untreated, and sanded on at least one side. It may be worthwhile testing your mattress on the floor before buying the plywood to confirm that the foundation is the issue.

Itā€™s certainly possible that your mattress is too soft for you and that could also account for your symptoms so I would trust your own perceptions and personal experience and ā€œbest judgementā€ over my guesswork.

Latex isnā€™t temperature sensitive like memory foam so the weather wouldnā€™t be affecting the firmness of the latex.

Hopefully the firmer support from the plywood will solve the issue but if you do decide to try a topper then post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to includes a link to the better topper sources Iā€™m aware of and a link to the topper sources Iā€™m aware of that have a return or exchange policy as well.

Phoenix

The PLB Nature mattress is on the (carpeted) floor and I will write again in a few days. My dogs are quite happy with this arrangement! Wish me luck!

Hi rceisland,

Good luck ā€¦ and I hope it helps to solve the issues you are having ā€¦ and doesnā€™t create any new ones with the dogs :slight_smile:

Iā€™m looking forward to your feedback in a few days.

Phoenix

Good morning Phoenix,

I have slept 2 nights with the PLB Nature mattress on the floor. It, surprisingly, feels very differently than it did on the foundation, and not in a good way. It feels very, very firm! My shoulders donā€™t sink in so they roll up and cause discomfort, and overall I donā€™t find it comfortable at all. My neck and back hurt. Maybe there is a new break-in period with the bed on the floor? I believe that the foundation that came with the bed allows for sinking in the shoulder and hip areas but it otherwise doesnā€™t support the bed properly. Not to mention that it caused upper middle back pain. What are your thoughts?

I still feel this is a very high quality mattress and I would like to solve it rather than return it. I viewed the page with all the toppers that have a good return or exchange policy. Iā€™m inclined to go with a PLB topper because itā€™s somewhat cooler and helpful for my hot flashes. Would you recommend a 2" or 3"? I am 5ā€™4", weigh 130-135# and am built curvy. The PLB topper is much more money than I want to dish out but I can justify it if it lasts many years to come. I also need to research their fast vs slow topper.

Obviously, my goal is to be 100% comfortable and pain free and sleep well.

Thanking you in advance.

Hi rceisland,

At least you have confirmed that the foundation wasnā€™t supporting the mattress properly because there should be little to no difference between a suitable foundation and the floor.

Post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to have some suggestions about choosing the thickness and firmness that have the best chance of success and links to some of the better topper sources Iā€™m aware of as well but the only way to know for certain whether a topper will be a good match for you and your mattress will be based on your actual sleeping experience so the return or exchange policy can be an important part of choosing a topper in case your ā€œbest guessā€ doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hope for.

The PLB topper would only be slightly cooler when you first go to sleep at night but wonā€™t make a great deal of difference over the course of the night compared to a regular Talalay topper (see post #2 here).

Most of the PLB retailers Iā€™m aware of donā€™t allow returns or exchanges on a topper so when you are in a trial and error mode it may be a good idea to purchase an equivalent topper from a source that allows for exchanges or returns and they will likely have a lower price than the PLB topper as well.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

After reading your suggestion, I decided to try a 2" queen size memory foam topper, which I own and is at least 2 years old, (Bergad 5 lb memory foam) on my new king bed. I have an Outlast cover on it. I have slept on it 3 nights and it feels very comfortable and soft and doesnā€™t make anything hurtā€¦until I get up. I am having slight low back pain after slleping on my back. I still have upper mid back pain as well and some neck/shoulder pain. I donā€™t know if this is residual or new pain.

I looked at the sites for latex toppers with strong return/exchange policies and they are expensive. First, I went to a mattress store in Ft. Lauderdale which carries both the Nature and the PLB 3 inch topper, which may be too thick/squishy. Later, I went to the store where I bought my PLB Nature mattress and tried a 2" topper there which felt comfortable, but the base where the PLB Nature sits atop is a L & P base so I donā€™t know if it would feel the same at home. Pure Latex Bliss has discontinued the 2" active fusion topper. The owner reportedly would agree to sell me the 2" topper for $299, which is a fair price.

I would like to try to mimic the ā€œBeautifulā€ model by PLB, if possible. Can you help me figure out if this, or another latex topper, could feel somewhat like the Beautiful model? What ILD should I be looking for to achieve this? Iā€™ve also looked on Amazon and eBay and the prices seem to be more in my range; I just have to see each individual return policy.

One more thing, The adjustable split king base by Sleep Science seems to be a great deal at Costco for $1599. I wanted to get your thoughts on this.

Iā€™m beginning to have second thoughts whether the Nature is the right bed for me to be totally pain freeā€¦

Hi rcseisland,

The lower back pain would generally indicate that there was too much thickness/softness in the upper layers of your sleeping system (the topper in combination with the softer comfort layers in your mattress). The other issues could be a residual from your previous experience or could also be from comfort layers that are too thick/soft or possibly a pillow issue as well.

Any base that has very little to no flex would feel the same as another base under your mattress (or the floor) which also has very little to no flex.

The design of the Nature is too different from the Beautiful to be able to match one to the other with a topper but the closest ā€œapproximationā€ would probably be to add a 2" - 3" Talalay latex topper in either 14 ILD (for blended Talalay) or 15 ILD (for Talalay GL fast response). A link to a list of the better sources for latex toppers that Iā€™m aware of are in the topper guidelines I linked in my last reply but I would make sure you talk with KTT since they can supply any of the latex made by Latex International and have some very good prices.

Post #3 here and the adjustable bed thread it links to has more information about choosing an adjustable bed but if the Sleep Science has the features that you want and is less than other adjustable beds with the same or very similar features in the same size then it would certainly be worth considering and the price seems to be very reasonable to me.

Phoenix

Thank you!! Iā€™m waiting for a call back from Maureen at KTT Enterprises. Have a great weekend and Iā€™ll try not to bother you. :slight_smile:

Hey Phoenix,

Just wanted to let you know that I went to Slumber Ease Factory (Marysville, WA) today. Nick wasnā€™t there, but I worked with Rex and thought he was great. Very knowledgeable. Although Iā€™m leaning towards latex, he also had me try some other mattresses. He even suggested I wait a few days and come back again and try out the two that I felt best met my needs. No pressure. The mattresses Iā€™m considering are a little pricier than I thought buying factory-direct would be but within the range that you would expect of good quality latex mattresses. On another note, I also went to 6-Day Mattress (Redmond, WA). Again, no pressure, but I didnā€™t feel the salesperson (not Bald Bob) was as informative as Rex. I was able to ā€˜test driveā€™ several Pure Latex Bliss mattresses and am going back to try them again now that Iā€™ve tried some other latex mattresses. Interestingly, it seems I do the best with 36 ILDā€“at least that was consistent at both 6-Day and SEF. When I go up to 40, it initially feels good (Iā€™m a back sleeper and like firm-ish), but I think that would be too firm over time.

Another noteā€“which might be interesting to other members who want to purchase PLBā€“I contacted one of the MU members to get a quote. Jeff Scheuer, Owner, Mattress to Go, got back to me very quickly, and his quote for PLB Nature came in about $300 less than what I would pay at 6DM. When you factor in our high sales tax in WA, it will be more like a $500 difference. With Mattress to Go, there is no sales tax, and the quote included white glove delivery. As much as everyone loves Bald Bob, and as much as I would like to purchase locally, $500 is nothing to sneeze atā€“especially tacked on to a $2K mattress.

Soā€¦ I am so grateful for all the information you provide. I never would have thought about going factory direct, and your recommendations of knowledgeable and reputable mattress sellers is invaluable.

Looking forward to a better nightā€™s sleep soon! :stuck_out_tongue:

Carol

Hi cado212,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback ā€¦ I appreciate it :slight_smile:

I think that this was a good suggestion because sometimes if you test too many different mattresses on the same day itā€™s easy to get ā€œtesting fatigueā€ where everything starts to blur together and you get desensitized and can lose track of all the differences between mattresses you have tested.

Iā€™m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

Hi rcseisland,

Iā€™m ā€œon dutyā€ 7 days a week and your questions are always welcome no matter which day of the week :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

So the plot thickensā€¦ :dry: I went back to 6-Day Mattress to try the PLB again then asked Josh if there was anything else I should try, and he put me on the Electropedic HP Extra Firm (1" 24 ILD + 6" 36 ILD Core + 1" 24 ILD), and I am totally over the PLB. What is so interesting, tho, is I called the factory, and the factory-direct price was more than Bobā€™s price! But thatā€™s neither here nor there. Iā€™m going to ask you the same question I asked the person I spoke to at Electropedic and didnā€™t really get a definitive answer. While I was on their web site I saw their Ultimate mattress which is 11" vs 9". From a purely esthetic perspective, I prefer the deeper mattress as it fits sheets better and would look better on my sleigh bed, and I like the deeper look. BUT while that is an issue, my comfort is my primary concern, and Iā€™m wondering about the difference in feel. If the Electropedic HP felt great, could I lose that by going with the thicker top and bottom layers or might it be even more blissful (yes, I know you canā€™t feel what I feel :wink: ) Since I would be selecting their ā€œextra firmā€ (although it didnā€™t feel super firm) might the extra inch on each side provide even more support to the pressure points without that sinking in feeling of the plush latex mattresses? The other mattress Iā€™m still considering is the Slumber Ease mattress. The one I tested that I really loved had a 6" core of 36 ILD with top and bottom layers of 2" 19 ILD. Since both companies get their latex from Latex Intā€™l am I testing apples to apples? And at what point is a different ILD noticeable, i.e. 24 vs 19? I swear, itā€™s easier for me to buy a car or house than it is to buy a mattress! After the last mattress mistake I feel like I have post traumatic stress when it comes to purchasing a mattress, but I need to make a decision soon as I am currently on an air mattress, and thatā€™s not doing me any good. Just as a reminder (so you donā€™t have to go back through the feed), I am a back sleeper (nearly 100%), 5ā€™ 5" and 123 lbs.

Thanks again,
Carol

Hi cado212,

Youā€™re right that I canā€™t feel what you feel or know what you will feel on any particular mattress (especially since I have no personal experience with either of them so I donā€™t even know how they would feel for me much less someone else) but if both mattresses had the same support core and cover and the only difference between them was that the 11" mattress had an additional inch of latex in the same firmness level on each side then the 11" mattress would be softer and for most people more pressure relieving (pressure relief and support are opposites) but would also ā€œallowā€ the heavier parts of the body to sink in a little more deeply and for some people could be a little more risky in terms of primary support and alignment (although with only a 2" comfort layer in 24 ILD over a 36 ILD core this would be less likely for most people). Many side sleepers would prefer the version with thicker layers.

There is more about primary support, secondary support, and their relationship to pressure relief in post #4 here and in post #2 here.

They would be apples to apples in terms of the quality and durability of the materials but not in terms of design or PPP. There is more about the different ways that one mattress can ā€œmatchā€ another mattress in post #9 here but every layer and component in a mattress will have some effect on all the other layers and components in a mattress and on the mattress ā€œas a wholeā€ so every difference in any of the layers and components between two mattresses will have some effect on how they compare in terms of PPP (for better or for worse). While how big the difference would be can also depend on where someone is in the range between ā€œI can sleep on anythingā€ and ā€œprincess and the peaā€ ā€¦ in many cases the effect of even seemingly smaller changes (such as changing the thickness of a layer by only an inch) can be very surprising. Depending on the overall design of a mattress and all the other specs that can affect the softness of a material besides just ILD (see post #4 here) and the sensitivity of the person ā€¦ most people would be able to feel a noticeable difference between layers that were 5 ILD apart yes.

Phoenix

Thanks for the indepth reply. Iā€™ll review and see if I have more questions after. Funny that you mention "the range between ā€˜I can sleep on anythingā€™ and ā€˜princess and the peaā€™ " since Iā€™ve been referring to myself as ā€œthe princess in the peaā€ during my recent mattress trials. I am very sensitive to mattresses, so in view of your reply, I think I should stick with what Iā€™ve tested and feels good rather than take a chance on one that I havenā€™t physically tested, although the Electropedic return policy very good. The two mattresses Iā€™m considering now made my back feel like it was humming when I was on them.

Carol

Hi cado212,

Most people will sleep well on a range of mattresses so there isnā€™t only one that would be a good choice but if you are more sensitive than most because of physiology, sensitivity, or even health conditions, and your 'range" of suitable mattresses is narrower then careful testing along with the options you have after a purchase to fine tune a mattress or exchange it (or individual layers in the case of a component mattress) or even to return it for a refund and start over again can become a much more important part of the ā€œvalueā€ of a mattress purchase and lowering the risk of making a choice that in spite of ā€œbest effortsā€ on your part and on the part of a retailer or manufacturer you are working with doesnā€™t turn out as well as both of you hoped for.

Phoenix