Hi rcseisland,
Iām āon dutyā 7 days a week and your questions are always welcome no matter which day of the week 
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
So the plot thickensā¦ :dry: I went back to 6-Day Mattress to try the PLB again then asked Josh if there was anything else I should try, and he put me on the Electropedic HP Extra Firm (1" 24 ILD + 6" 36 ILD Core + 1" 24 ILD), and I am totally over the PLB. What is so interesting, tho, is I called the factory, and the factory-direct price was more than Bobās price! But thatās neither here nor there. Iām going to ask you the same question I asked the person I spoke to at Electropedic and didnāt really get a definitive answer. While I was on their web site I saw their Ultimate mattress which is 11" vs 9". From a purely esthetic perspective, I prefer the deeper mattress as it fits sheets better and would look better on my sleigh bed, and I like the deeper look. BUT while that is an issue, my comfort is my primary concern, and Iām wondering about the difference in feel. If the Electropedic HP felt great, could I lose that by going with the thicker top and bottom layers or might it be even more blissful (yes, I know you canāt feel what I feel 
) Since I would be selecting their āextra firmā (although it didnāt feel super firm) might the extra inch on each side provide even more support to the pressure points without that sinking in feeling of the plush latex mattresses? The other mattress Iām still considering is the Slumber Ease mattress. The one I tested that I really loved had a 6" core of 36 ILD with top and bottom layers of 2" 19 ILD. Since both companies get their latex from Latex Intāl am I testing apples to apples? And at what point is a different ILD noticeable, i.e. 24 vs 19? I swear, itās easier for me to buy a car or house than it is to buy a mattress! After the last mattress mistake I feel like I have post traumatic stress when it comes to purchasing a mattress, but I need to make a decision soon as I am currently on an air mattress, and thatās not doing me any good. Just as a reminder (so you donāt have to go back through the feed), I am a back sleeper (nearly 100%), 5ā 5" and 123 lbs.
Thanks again,
Carol
Hi cado212,
Youāre right that I canāt feel what you feel or know what you will feel on any particular mattress (especially since I have no personal experience with either of them so I donāt even know how they would feel for me much less someone else) but if both mattresses had the same support core and cover and the only difference between them was that the 11" mattress had an additional inch of latex in the same firmness level on each side then the 11" mattress would be softer and for most people more pressure relieving (pressure relief and support are opposites) but would also āallowā the heavier parts of the body to sink in a little more deeply and for some people could be a little more risky in terms of primary support and alignment (although with only a 2" comfort layer in 24 ILD over a 36 ILD core this would be less likely for most people). Many side sleepers would prefer the version with thicker layers.
There is more about primary support, secondary support, and their relationship to pressure relief in post #4 here and in post #2 here.
They would be apples to apples in terms of the quality and durability of the materials but not in terms of design or PPP. There is more about the different ways that one mattress can āmatchā another mattress in post #9 here but every layer and component in a mattress will have some effect on all the other layers and components in a mattress and on the mattress āas a wholeā so every difference in any of the layers and components between two mattresses will have some effect on how they compare in terms of PPP (for better or for worse). While how big the difference would be can also depend on where someone is in the range between āI can sleep on anythingā and āprincess and the peaā ā¦ in many cases the effect of even seemingly smaller changes (such as changing the thickness of a layer by only an inch) can be very surprising. Depending on the overall design of a mattress and all the other specs that can affect the softness of a material besides just ILD (see post #4 here) and the sensitivity of the person ā¦ most people would be able to feel a noticeable difference between layers that were 5 ILD apart yes.
Phoenix
Thanks for the indepth reply. Iāll review and see if I have more questions after. Funny that you mention "the range between āI can sleep on anythingā and āprincess and the peaā " since Iāve been referring to myself as āthe princess in the peaā during my recent mattress trials. I am very sensitive to mattresses, so in view of your reply, I think I should stick with what Iāve tested and feels good rather than take a chance on one that I havenāt physically tested, although the Electropedic return policy very good. The two mattresses Iām considering now made my back feel like it was humming when I was on them.
Carol
Hi cado212,
Most people will sleep well on a range of mattresses so there isnāt only one that would be a good choice but if you are more sensitive than most because of physiology, sensitivity, or even health conditions, and your 'range" of suitable mattresses is narrower then careful testing along with the options you have after a purchase to fine tune a mattress or exchange it (or individual layers in the case of a component mattress) or even to return it for a refund and start over again can become a much more important part of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase and lowering the risk of making a choice that in spite of ābest effortsā on your part and on the part of a retailer or manufacturer you are working with doesnāt turn out as well as both of you hoped for.
Phoenix
Hi again,
So far, I havenāt yet heard back from Maureen of KTT. Iām sure sheās very busy. In the meantimeā¦and because the clock is ticking for either keeping the Pure Latex Bliss Nature or returning it, I need to make a decision.
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I donāt love the feel of the Nature with the 2" Bergad 5 lb memory foam topper, which is a couple of years old. I want to try and create a comfortable sleep situation with a latex topper, if possible. Do you think this is possible or should I just exchange the bed for another, probably an inner springs, mattress?
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Iām very tempted to buy the discontinued PLB 2" topper for $299, if I donāt hear from KTT Enterprises. How do you think it will effect my lower back and spine on the Nature. (I hope Iām not asking too much of you.) Sleeping on the Nature with no topper is unbearable and the memory foam is better but not great. Also, do you know what the ILD is on the PLB 2" topper?
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Forget my thoughts about duplicating the Beautiful mattress. Although it feels comfortable in the store, it might not be the right bed either. It seems like such a challenge to get the right amount of thickness/softness without causing pain. I want my shoulders and hips to feel softness and support AND my back to feel wonderful/pain-free.
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When I get home from the gym, Iām going to re-read some of the posts with topper guidelines/info.
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Thank you. I donāt know what Iād do if I didnāt have you to bounce things off of. As it is, a few of my friends think Iāve gone batty with my bed preoccupation.
Hi rceisland,
If you tried to contact them and havenāt heard back in a business day or so then I would call them again. If you emailed them then either your original email or their reply may have gone astray and you may end up waiting for a reply that will never come.
Itās very likely that you could create a better match in terms of PPP if you choose the most suitable latex topper in terms of thickness and firmness but only your own experience can tell you whether a topper you choose in combination with the Nature would be a good match for you in terms of PPP. Whether to exchange your mattress for a different one would depend on the results of your testing on another mattress you were considering exchanging for compared to your testing on the Nature or the Nature/topper combination and which one your testing indicated would likely be a better match for you in terms of PPP (again only your own experience can tell this). The choice of different types of mattresses or materials is a personal preference and would depend on whether you tend to prefer the āfeelā of innerspring support cores or latex support cores. There is more about the difference between them in post #28 here but again your own testing and experience is the only reliable way to know which types of mattresses or materials and components you tend to prefer.
The PLB topper would about 15 ILD but I donāt know how it will affect you in terms of PPP. Outside of the topper guidelines I linked in my earlier reply and your own personal testing with this topper on the same mattress in the store, the only reliable way to know whether a specific mattress/topper combination will be a suitable match for you would be based on your personal experience.
Phoenix
Merry Christmas!
So, since Iāve last writtenā¦I got an adjustable base for my Pure Latex Bliss Nature 3 weeks ago. Itās better, but not what I was hoping for. Surprisingly, I think itās too soft. Or, too firm and soft. I get slight lower back pain when I sleep on my back and mid upper back pain from sleeping on my side. Not excruciating pain, but pain nonetheless. As a positive, I am getting more deep sleep. I went on this site last night and read about some people who were having problems with their new PLB beds. Scary. I donāt want my bed to sag or become softer and cause me increasing pain, which seems to be the case with some. The bed store where I bought the bed gave me an extra 30 days and itās up in a day or two. Also, I did speak with Maureen of KTT a month ago (before my adjustable base arrived) about a topper and I told her Iād call her after I slept on the bed with the new base for a few weeks. So I have to do that. But, Iām not sure this bed can be fixed with a 19-24 ILD topperā¦your thoughts?? My worst fears are that the Nature model wouldnāt work for me and Iād be stuck getting a Simmons, Sealy or Sertaā¦or even a hot tempurpedic. Maybe a dunlop topper? Urgh! So frustrating.
Hi rcseisland,
Unfortunately there is no way for me to know this outside of your own personal experience and feedback. Given your previous comments in this topic and your lighter body weight I would be tempted to try a topper in the 14 - 15 ILD range (probably 2" to reduce the risk of thicker softer toppers) but of course the exchange and return policies will be an important consideration in case it doesnāt work out as well as you hope for.
It also doesnāt sound like you have enough time to test a topper any longer without your trial period on the mattress running out because if you try it and it doesnāt work out for you then you wouldnāt have any other options to exchange the mattress for something else. Deciding on what to do next will really be a matter of ābest judgementā based on whether you think some additional softness will improve your experience for the better and which of your options you believe would have the least risk.
I still think that a pillow that keeps your head and neck in good alignment may also be helpful with the upper body issues as well (or at least would be worth testing) although you may very well find that a softer topper that allows your shoulders to sink in more deeply will help with this as well.
One other suggestion that may be worth trying is to raise the foot of your bed a couple of inches to see if that helps with the lower back pain when you are on your back.
The only way to know whether any of these or any of the other suggestions in my earlier replies would be helpful for you though will be based on your personal experience and feedback and by comparing how each change you make changes your āsymptomsā and experience compared to the one before it.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I left a message for KTT Enterprises but itās Christmastime so not sure when Iāll hear back.
I was surprised to read that a 14 or 15 ILD topper could possibly help because the mattress already feels very soft. I had thought that going firmer would be better for my back?
When I tried the bed on the floor, it felt much firmer (painfully so). The Costco electric base is covered with foam and perhaps that is making it softer?
Iām a pillow fan and when I bought the PLB Nature, I also bought a PLB pillow. I have an assortment of pillows from thin to thick as well as a shredded latex from Dreamfoam Bedding. I sleep with a pillow between my knees and sometimes cuddle one across my front to keep my shoulder from sinking.
I have a confession. I often use my MacBook while lying in bed which could be a contributing factor to some of the pain Iām experiencing.
Hi rcseisland,
A mattress that is too soft and a mattress that is too firm for your body type and sleeping positions can both cause back pain. The goal is always to maintain good alignment in all your sleeping positions. There is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief and firmness in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may help you visualize what good support/alignment and pressure relief ālooks likeā.
I would be surprised if there was foam on the top surface of the Sleep Science adjustable rather than just around the edges. It should provide similar support to the floor or any other rigid non flexing support surface.
It certainly could be yes ā¦ especially the upper back pain.
You could be correct that your mattress is too soft already but the only reliable way to know with any certainty would be based on your own personal experience and feedback. Based on your body type and your comments though ā¦ I would have guessed that you would be more likely to benefit from a little softer sleeping surface.
Phoenix
Dear Phoenix,
I would like to tell you that I have finally found my successful sleeping arrangement! I bought a Pure Latex Bliss topper: the 2 Inch Fast Response Natural Talalay Latex With Activefusion topper, to place upon my PLB Nature mattress, which sits atop a Costco adjustable base. Bedding Barn, where I bought my Nature mattress, sold it to me for $299.00. I think this particular topper is being discontinued. I have been sleeping on it for more than a week and I am thrilled to report that Iām pain-free and comfortable, at least when I sleep on my side. Although when I started, I never planned to spend close to $4000 on a new bedā¦a great nightās sleep and waking feeling good is of utmost importance.
I just wanted to let you know the end of my bedtime story, and appreciate your listening ear and helpful suggestions. I will report again in a few months. Hopefully, I will feel the same at that time. Thank you for your help.
Sweet Dreams,
rcseisland
Hi rceisland,
Thanks for the update ā¦ and thatās great news
Phoenix