Need help to find chemical-free mattress in Texas

[phoenix]

Hi lmcgehee,

I’ll leave most of the suggestions (except a few general ones at the end) about layering, “comfort specs” and the most suitable mattress to a combination of your body and the retailers you are working with who will be much more accurate than any “theory at a distance” I could offer but I’ll certainly add some thoughts to some of your other comments and questions.

The owner of the store said that he “guarantees” the mattress would get divets in it over time. I guess he was just telling me that all latex mattresses do that. Is that correct information?

All foam materials will soften over time but latex will do this more slowly and to a lesser degree than other types of foam. It will also depend on many other factors including someone’s height/weight, their sleeping style, the type of latex, the softness of the latex, and the position of the latex in the mattress. The upper layers and softer foams will soften faster than layers that are firmer or deeper in the mattress. You can read more about durability and latex in post#2 here along with post #2 here which relates more to the different types of latex. 100% natural Talalay in the softer ILD’s is probably the least durable of the types of latex you are looking at.

I liked OMI Flora Nouveau which was 2 sided: a 3" med. talalay core with 2" soft talalay toppers on either side. OMI does not tell the ILDs of their latex. It also had some latex quilted into the quilting. Ticking and construction was beautiful. Aesthetically very pleasing. Price was very high, but it did seem lovely (maybe a tad firm)

I also liked some of the OMI mattresses I tested (particularly the Terra). If you call them they will usually tell you the ILD’s of their latex and the options they have available.

[quote]Tried the Suite Sleep Vesta: At first I thought it would be too soft, but when I stayed on it was comfortable and well supported. I ended up feeling pretty good about it, partially due to the fact that Angela the rep was there to tell me all about it. This mattress had 2" soft dunlop 18-20 ILD, 4" med dunlop 23-26 ILD and 2" firm dunlop 28-32 ILD.
I liked the extra wool that this mattress had in the quilting. Seemed very comfortable to me. Aesthetically, it bothered me that the cover seemed to “mushroom” out at the sides, but I guess this would not affect how one sleeps. I also had it in the back of my mind that it might be too soft if the latex softens over time.[/quote]

This is also a high quality mattress and is much softer than the typical Dunlop mattress. Of course … like many mattresses that are targeted at a more “organic niche” … they tend to be more costly than many similar mattresses that use similar materials … although the thicker layers of wool are also very nice for those who like this and add to the cost of the mattress as well.

-Soft on top is good for me. 2 mattresses I liked (Flora Nou. and Savvy) had talalay on top 2" and 3" respectively (ILD’s unknown) and 1 (Suite Sleep) had 2" dunlop with 18-20 ILD

Don’t forget that the thickness of the top layer along with the layer below it will have a lot to do with how the mattress feels for you and on how well it relieves pressure. The tendency to look at the top layer only in terms of pressure relief without taking into account the layers over (quilting and ticking) and under it can be very misleading. All the layers of a mattress interact together.

On the 4 hour drive back home, I kept feeling like there must be a way to get what feels good in latex for less that the cost of a vehicle. The next day, I looked at the SleepEz site and found their prices are much less. I also called the Mattress Factory in Fort Worth and the owner said that he can make a chemical free latex mattress for me with my precription. His would be 2" of med. dunlop (approx 28 ILD) on either side over a 6" med. dunlop core of same ILD.

As you discovered … there certainly are lower cost latex options that may be just as safe … but this would depend on the preferences and sensitivity of the person. For example … the OMI factory is also certified which means that they don’t mix different types of materials when they are being made (although they still use Talalay which is not organic). If someone had the degree of sensitivity where they could react to a material that had the “dust” of another material on it because it was being made in the same factory then a certified factory may make sense from a safety point of view but this would be very rare.

One of the alternatives would be to use 100% natural Dunlop (or blended Talalay) instead of paying extra for the certification (in the case of Dunlop) or 100% natural raw materials (in the case of Talalay) when the benefits may not justify the extra costs unless “safety” was not your main concern and either “natural” or “organic” materials were more important than “safety”. There is of course nothing wrong with consumers preferring organic materials and there are certainly some who do for many reasons but in many cases an “organic” certification is confused with “safety” and while they are interrelated … they are not the same thing.

1. Is a two sided latex mattress (as in the OMI Flora Nouveau or the Mattress Factory) going to be more long lasting and get less divets than a 1 sided latex? Are all latex mattresses “guaranteed” to get divets?

Yes … a two sided mattress that is maintained by rotating/flipping it regularly will be more long lasting than an equivalent one sided mattress all other things being equal. It will slow down the foam softening even with more durable materials like latex. I think that “divots” is a bit of an exaggeration (with most types of latex) and foam softening would probably be more accurate. If actual “divots” were an issue with latex … then most of the warranties that only had a .75" exclusion would be problematic for the manufacturer. of course if there are layers of super soft polyfoam or wool or other fibers on top then they would comprerss faster than the latex itself and in these casesw the exclusion is more typically 1.5" to compenstae for materials on top that are more likely to soften (foam) or compress (fibers) under the heavier parts of the body.

2. Does the latex soften significantly over time?

Depending on the other factors that I linked to … it softens much less than other types of materials. You can see a thinner single layer Dunlop latex mattress here (probably fairly firm) that has lasted over 40 years without significant impressions or degrading. I talked with a manufacturer a few days ago that was still sleeping on a single layer Talalay latex mattress that was well over 20 years old (again on the firmer side) that was still in very good shape. The softer comfort layers though would not have this kind of durability and were not the norm with these types of mattresses which were usually just a single latex layer with a quilted ticking on both sides.

3. If a piece of 28 ILD dunlop latex is cut into smaller thinnesses, as in the Mattress Factory latex mattress described above, does that mean that the 2" layer of med. dunlop is going to feel softer than the 6" core of med. dunlop?

A latex core is tested for ILD with a 6" core and all the layers that are cut from that core have the same ILD. The thickness of the layer though will have a significant effect on what you feel. For example … if you put a 2" layer of latex on the floor you would go right through it and feel much of the firmness of the floor but if you replaced this with a 6" layer of the same ILD … you wouldn’t feel the floor. Thickness and softness work together in combination with the layers above and below to produce how soft/firm a mattress feels and how it performs.

4. How likely is it that one could duplicate the feeling of a mattress that you tried in a store if you purchased it through a place such as Sleep EZ or Mattress Factory? Would you have to know the ILD’s of the talalay or would soft, med, firm be enough information for them?

Latex is easier to duplicate than other materials because it tends to be more “standardized” and there are fewer types of latex and fewer manufacturers. For example … there are only two main Talalay manufacturers and most of the Dunlop that most manufacturers use comes from about half a dozen or so producers. So if you know the details of every layer of the mattress you are testing (in terms of ILD and/or density and type of latex) and these same materials were available from the manufacturer of a mattress you were considering, and the ticking/quilting were also very similar … then the resulting mattress would be very similar. The difficulty is making sure you get accurate information about the mattress you are testing (which may be difficult because there really isn’t any logical reason that a manufacturer needs to provide their “comfort specs” or ILD if they are being sold locally) and then these same or functionally similar layers (thickness and ILD) are available from the manufacturer or retailer you are considering.

Without “matching specs” and the cover/ticking … then there would be no way to really know how well a mattress “matched” except from personal experience and even then it may not be accurate because our memory for the subjective “feel” of a mattress is not that accurate over a longer period (even a day or so in many cases). If you were matching by more generalized descriptions such as soft/medium/firm … then this may or may not match depending onhow these were rated and on the sensitivity of the person. Some people wouldn’t notice even fairly large differences and others seem to notice even the most minute differences between mattresses.

5. In your opinion, is organic latex worth the extra price? Is it not true that the only difference is in how the trees are grown and the latex it self does not have more or less chemicals? In your opinion is regualr natural latex any less “safe?”

One of the factors involved in certifying the latex raw materials is that there has to be a period of years that both the plantation and the surrounding areas are free of any pesticides. If pesticides are used at all with latex … it’s generally in the earliest years of the tree. There are other qualifications as well. You could read more about this on the GOLS site and on the USDA site. In addition tothis … to be labeled as “organic” each step of the productioin and distribution chain needs to be certified. Certifying the raw materials doesn’t mean that a 6" latex core can be labelled as “organic” until the core itself and it’s production methods and the factory is also certified.

Where all of this is worth it is for each person to decide. On a value basis … I personally (personal opinion only) would go with either 100% natural Dunlop or blended Talalay and I have no doubts or issues with the safety of either of these but there are many others whose “value equation” would be very different from mine.

6. Do you know whether Sleep Ez has certifications for their cotton and/or wool? I did not see them on website.

As far as I know … all the SleepEz quilted covers are organic. They use either 100% natural Talalay or “organic” Dunlop layers in their organic line and either 100% natural Dunlop or blended talalay in their regular line. They don’t promote their “organic” Dunlop as being organic because there was a law suit about organic dunlop when many people were claiming it was organic when only the raw material had been certified (the core itself has not become certified) and they tend to be very conservative with their claims … even though they are buying and using the same material that others are promoting as “organic” in their “organic” line and this is different from the 100% natural Dunlop that they use in their regular line.

7. Do you see any commonalites in my descriptions of themattresses I liked above that might help me zero in my choice?

Yes … you seem to prefer thicker softer layers on top (even the thinner 2" layer that you liked was over a softer middle layer which increases the effective thickness softness of the comfort layers). You also seem to prefer softer latex in general in the transition and lower layers. In a “typical” layering … you would probably prefer 3" of soft in a typical S/M/F layering or a 3" soft layer over a medium/firm 6" layer or a 2" soft layer over a slightly softer 6" core (to increase the softness thickness of the comfort layers). Oc course each manufactuere would know more about the materials they were using and may make different suggestions based on the materials and components they have available. If you like thicker layers of wool … this can be added as a mattress pad or topper which can be replaced if the wool compresses more than you are comfortable with over time or you want to replace it without replacing the entire mattress.

8. Any other suggestions?

I think you’ve pretty much covered most of it and the hardest part IMO will be narrowing down some very good options you have to only one.

Phoenix