I purchased my latex set from SleepEZ with soft (2") Talalay, medium (3") Talalay and firm (3") Dunlop. I have tried every possible configuration and am still waking up with lower back muscular pain. I am a Chiropractor so I know my back/spine very well.
I have quickly learned that what feels good when you are awake doesn’t necessarily translate the same in the morning. So thankful to have the layering option. Now to figure out what I need to do differently . . .
I am still in my 90 day trial period and need help with my exchange(s). Right now I am in the Bahamas for 2 weeks sleeping on a guest bed that I’m sure is older as I could not even find it online (Simmons BeautyRest Naples) and I have zero back discomfort upon arising, if that tells anybody anything. It’s a no frills mattress that feels firm.
Thanks for everyone’s input, and many thanks to you, Phoenix, for your generous offerings.
That can certainly be true. Comfort/pressure relief is what you feel when you first lie on a mattress and is relatively easy to determine based on “feel” but alignment/support is usually what you feel when you wake up in the morning and can be a little more difficult to assess.
Post #2 here has some suggestions about some of the more common sleeping symptoms that may be helpful.
The first thing I would suggest when you need to make some changes is a more detailed conversation with the manufacturer who will have more experience with their own mattresses and different configurations than anyone else.
I’d also be happy to make some general suggestions but it would be helpful to know a little bit more to get a better sense of what may be happening.
Alignment issues … and the lower back pain that can go with them … can involve some detective work to identify the underlying cause. The most common cause is from a mattress that is too soft and doesn’t have firm enough primary support under the pelvis. This can allow the pelvis to sink down too far and tilt which in turn affects the natural curve and alignment of the lumbar spine. It can also be from a mattress that is too firm and doesn’t have enough softness on top to fill in the gaps in the sleeping profile and provide the secondary support that is needed under the recessed curves of the spine. A mattress that is too firm can also lead to sleeping in a “twisted” position to avoid pressure points which can also cause lower back issues.
The first question I would have is whether you think your mattress is too soft or too firm.
It would also be helpful to know your body type and sleeping positions.
The type of mattress you have been used to sleeping on previously can also make a difference.
Finally it would also be helpful to know the specific configurations you have tried and rate them as better or worse in terms of the differences in your experience or symptoms in each of them over the course of a few nights so that they can be used as a reference point for the “direction” of change that may work best for you.
Generally the best approach is more detailed conversations with the manufacturer in combination with an incremental and “one step at a time approach” which can identify the effect and “direction” of each change and moves you towards your ideal combination but of course I’d also be happy to provide any thoughts I have as well.
Current configuration that I have been sleeping on the longest is med/firm/soft. I feel now that it is too soft.
When I tried the firm/soft/medium, it was too firm.
The soft/firm/medium difficult to say, perhaps not soft/supportive enough. That’s when I switched to the current med/firm/soft.
I’m thinking perhaps a medium Dunlop layer exchange?
I have spoken with SleepEZ and was not satisfied with the response I received. I knew I could get something more specific from you.
They are actually much more knowledgeable and experienced with layering combinations and helping their customers with their mattresses than I am and their suggestions would be based on “educated” trial and error just like mine.
Taking things one step at a time though … I’m assuming that your first combination was (from top to bottom) the standard S/M/F layering and this was the one that was too soft and causing back issues. I’m also guessing that you have the wool quilted cover?
The current configuration is (top to bottom) M/F/S. This would be considerably firmer than the previous combination and for many people of your build would be too firm. If you can describe the specific difference or changes in your symptoms between this configuration and the previous one (rather than just an overall assessment of too soft or too firm) it may help point the way to the next configuration that may be worth trying.
How long did you try the original layering and how long have you slept on this one?
How long did you try the S/F/M combination? Can you also describe any differences or changes in your symptoms with this combination compared to each of the other ones.
If you had to rate each combination you’ve tried which one seems to be the best for pressure relief and which one seems to be the best for alignment and produce the least back symptoms or pain.
Outside of the F/S/M which would be much too firm a sleeping surface for most people … have you tried any other combinations or options?
Have you experienced any other symptoms (pressure points or back issues other than in the lower back) or are the lower back symptoms the only ones that you have experienced?
What type of mattress protector are you using?
Are you a pure side sleeper or do you sleep in other positions as well?
I would first try to identify what is happening and gain some clarity about the type of layering that has a good likelihood of working well for you before deciding on the specifics of a layer exchange.
]'m assuming that your first combination was (from top to bottom) the standard S/M/F layering and this was the one that was too soft and causing back issues. I’m also guessing that you have the wool quilted cover? Correct
I started out with the S/M/F for one week, then S/F/M for one week and currently M/F/S which I have been sleeping on for about 2 weeks and has been the best so far. Sooner or later I wake up with the same sore low back and try a different configuration. The mattress pad is 100% organic cotton from Organic Textiles. If I am having a good nights rest, I will wake up on my back. Otherwise a consistent side sleeper.
I have woken up with low back pain for so long, with the previous inner spring mattress and now the latex, that coming on vacation and sleeping on this older inner spring mattress w/o pain has really got me thinking. I want to make the latex work for many reasons, mostly to avoid the brominated flame retardants used on standard mattresses.
I’m assuming this is a padded cover with batting rather than just a thinner stretch knit? If this is the case I would try removing this to see if it makes any difference. It may be interfering with the ability of the latex to contour to your body and this may improve the contouring support that I suspect you need.
Does your mattress have the wool quilted cover? If it does I would also try unzipping the cover for the same reason.
It would be helpful if you could provide more detailed answers to the other questions in my previous post so that I have a better sense of the specific differences and any changes in your symptoms between the different combinations. More detailed and specific information about the nature of any changes you experienced with each combination are the “clues” that can be most helpful. It would be unusual for this combination to be too soft for someone and it may be that you just need more contouring so that the recessed curves or your body profile are filled in more effectively. You could also make it slightly firmer (in the support layers) by removing the bottom 2" layer completely.
Just to give you an idea of what another slim, side sleeper did to make a talalay mattress more comfortable… I had 3" each of soft, then Med. then firm, top to bottom. It felt too soft and with the mattress cover, it had a hammock effect. I ended up sending the soft and exchanged it for a n xfirm. I tried many configurations and ended up liking from top to bottom; firm, med. xfirm. Not what i thought would work but it does. It is quite firm now and so I did try various toppers for pressure relief. What I am currently pretty with on top of my mattress is this:
It softens the top surface yet keeps my firm support. It has been best for my lower back. Just my experience but sometimes it helps to hear how others have solved their mattress issues. This mattress pad in the link is very nice, not hot, and does cushion fairly well. It received good reviews on Amazon. I know others like a soft latex topper but I didn’t find them comfortable… I felt like my body didn’t come to a true rest directly on latex. This is what works for me. I don’t often see others using a thick cushiony mattress pad on this site for pressure relief so I thought I’d share this. (I am used to a firm mattress)
I think both of us might like the “coil innerspring” feel of a mattress, namely the first inch of padding is soft, then the next inch is firm, then the entire area sags down instead of the individual pressure points. That sort of seems like what you are achieving by putting the firm over the medium.
Yes, I am used to a coil mattress and my new latex mattress configuration has been difficult to get right. I slept on different configurations over the past 2 months and I am still recovering from sleeping on a configuration that I guess put my body in poor alignment or did not give me enough pressure relief for my hips/shoulders… hard to tell which. So, it is now difficult to judge my current setup.
What is your whole setup if you don’t mind? I would like to compare just to see what others are doing. I tried a 2" 16ild dunlop topper that seemed really nice but it is uncomfortable for me. I get a sensation, from lying directly on latex, of always rolling, never at rest, and it feels soft yet it is hard on my body. I don’t know if others have this opinion, but I know that I need something other than latex in the first 2 or 3 inches. I also ditched the St .Dormier cover… seemed to add stiffness where I did not want it.
This can vary depending on the type of latex and the design of the mattress (thicker soft layers can feel more like this) but the combination of softness and elasticity, firmness and support, as well as the resilience or springiness of latex is part of its unique characteristics and is the reason some people like it and some don’t. As you mentioned there are also people who prefer a less resilient layer on top of the latex to create a more “relaxed” surface feel.
Yes, latex is unique. Not sure if I just never had the right combo or if it just doesn’t work well with my body. I have had tingling down my spine with my new mattress and sore, almost restless legs. Never had this ever before. I had an xfirm coil mattress before this latex. I am still trying to tweak it. The best combo for me now is firm, med., xfirm then on top a thick soft cushioned mattress pad. I also have a 1 1/2" Omalon foam topper that I will try under this pad for additional cushioning of my upper body and legs, but I do not want my hips to sink. This has been a long road… Even with all the forum reading and experimentation, I am still struggling (yet hopeful).
One question that I have for you: I have a really nice thick mattress cover, from Foam Sweet Foam, that definitely interferes with the support of the latex. I was told to keep it on because thinner less structured covers will not protect the latex from slowly breaking down.
Is this correct? I have tried the latex with the cover unzipped and off the bed and I think the support feels better this way, but I’m afraid to go this route.
[quote]One question that I have for you: I have a really nice thick mattress cover, from Foam Sweet Foam, that definitely interferes with the support of the latex. I was told to keep it on because thinner less structured covers will not protect the latex from slowly breaking down.
Is this correct? I have tried the latex with the cover unzipped and off the bed and I think the support feels better this way, but I’m afraid to go this route. [/quote]
You can see some of the things that can break down or degrade latex here but the biggest “enemy” of latex is exposure to ultraviolet light and ozone. This is why it’s a good idea to use a good quality cover with latex so that it doesn’t break down prematurely over time but the cover doesn’t have to be a quilted cover and a good quality stretch knit ticking that is thick enough to be suitable for use as a mattress cover will also be fine. For the short term it won’t make any real difference while you are testing the mattress without a cover (unless you were to put it in direct sunlight or near an ozone source or spill something on the latex that can break it down) but for the long term a good quality cover is important.
A quilted cover can have some advantages and is a preference for some (particularly if the quilting is wool which also has temperature regulating and fire retardant benefits and can reduce the surface resilience of the latex) but others prefer to sleep more directly on the latex and use a stretch knit cover so that the latex can contour better to their body profile and provide more “contouring support” although it may provide less support under some parts of the body such as the pelvis which may sink in more.
So if your experimentation shows that sleeping more directly on the latex works better for you then it may be worthwhile to consider a stretch knit cover to replace the one you have. The “bottom line” for me is that personal experience always “trumps” everything else.
The setup right now is 31-35-31 zoned Dunlop core, 2" 28ILD talalay, 1" 22ILD talalay. I think it is a little too soft near the hip area. I don’t have problems side sleeping on my mattress, but when back sleeping, I get an arch in my lower back from my butt cheeks sinking down too much. On an innerspring mattress, I don’t get this arch because the “taut” spring layer squishes my lower back flat.
I think this “always rolling” sensation might be the same as a rubbery sensation from having too thick latex layers above the support layers. I got this same sensation from have 2"28 ILD + 2"22 ILD stacked on top of each other. I think to get rid of this feeling, you either need to:
reduce thickness of comfort layer
add tautness to the mattress cover, so that individual spots don’t sink down too much
add damping, either via memory foam, or thick wool / cotton layers
I am home now and last night I reconfigured the layers to firm/med/soft, removed the mattress pad and unzipped the mattress cover and made the bed with flannel sheets. The chemical smell was awful (I had initially aired the layers out for 2 weeks before sleeping on them) so I turned on the overhead fan and left the door open.
Normally I fall asleep in less than 5 minutes but was still awake 2 1/2 hours later. My right arm and left leg had gone numb. So I got up and put the mattress cover/pad back on and had a fitful remainder of the night. This morning my low back is not quite as sore but sore nonetheless.
I don’t know how willing I am at this point to try and pursue a layer exchange. Latex just may not be the thing for me. I spoke with Tim at MyGreenMattress yesterday and may go with one of their inner spring mattresses but here again, you’re buying a mattress w/o the ability to even lie on it first and no returns.
I’m not so surprised that sleeping directly on top of the firm layer caused your arm and leg numbness. I would tend to stick with combinations that used either the soft or the medium layer on top and try some of the other suggestions about the mattress pad and cover in combination with softer layers on top.
The one hopeful piece of information is that the firmer layer helped with your back pain but again this would be much firmer than most people would do well with.
I would personally try to gain more clarity about how different combinations compare relative to each other before considering a layer exchange (or even replacing the mattress) so that you have a better sense of the underlying cause of any issues you are experiencing and which types of changes or adjustments lead to the most improvement.