Need new mattress ASAP; would love feedback on hybrid latex and all latex online & local options

[phoenix]

Hi rand,

Thanks again for another comprehensive reply. I’m beginning to think that you are really a team of at least 3 people, given
all your responses and how prompt you usually are, and at seemingly all hours!

There are many days I wish I was 3 people … or at least had 3 heads, 6 arms, and 30 fingers, … but unfortunately I’m only one

Just to clarify my understanding of your last response - I plan to test the Healthy Back Bliss Essence today. If I find it comfortable
and meeting your PPP criteria (hoping I can get someone to go with me to observe spine, as otherwise, how could I really do this in side position),

Someone at the store should be able to help you check for alignment.

is there a way to know if the feel would be similar to the Ultimate Dreams or Brooklyn Bedding all latex mattresses? Do I need to ask Healthy Back to provide details on all the layers and their ILDs to know this?

A good retailer would be able and willing to provide you with the “quality specs” of a mattress which includes the type and density of any polyfoam or memory foam and the type and blend of the latex. The “comfort specs” may be a little more difficult to get however because they are not really relevant when you are testing a mattress locally (your body and testing can tell if it’s a good match regardless of the ILD) so many retailers or manufacturers treat the ILD of the layers as proprietary information so that their mattresses can’t be “duplicated” and because it has nothing to do with quality or value.

If you are able to find out the thickness and ILD of all the layers … then you could use this as a way to “approximate” your choice with another mattress but this won’t be exact and would require some guesswork because the same ILD and layer thickness, layer combinations, and cover and quilting may not be available in another mattress and every difference between two mattresses can have an effect on the feel and performance of the mattress which will also vary between different people. Every layer and component affects the response of every other layer to some degree. When you are approximating another mattress though … the similarity of the upper layers will have a bigger effect on what you feel than the deeper layers so if you can only approximate some of the layers or are looking for an approximate reference point then top 3" to 5" or so would be the ones to focus on more. Heavier body types would probably notice the effect of deeper layers more than lighter body types which don’t sink into the mattress and compress the deeper layers as much.

So far, I’ve not found any seller within reasonable driving distance to try latex over foam and only Healthy Back Store and one other on your list (this one has prices that are just way beyond what I would could consider) to test all latex mattresses. So my only experience with a latex mattress being one at Healthy Back, is there any real way to know in advance how, say, an Ultimate Dreams or Brooklyn Bedding latex over foam mattress might feel and be like to sleep on?

Outside of testing similar mattresses locally (which may not be available in a particular area) you would be reliant on more detailed conversations with the manufacturer and using their “averages” for other customers that were similar to you to decide on your initial choice. Once you have slept on a mattress then you can use your experience as a reference point for any further customization or layer exchanges so the exchange policy can be an important part of the purchase for some people. In other words … an online purchase that has layer exchanges available can be a process rather than a single purchase where your initial purchase is a “best guess” based on averages and then your actual sleeping experience replaces your testing and is used to decide whether the initial choice is “close enough”.

If there are some mattresses available locally but are outside of your price range then you can also use these to test various combinations which may give you some further reference points that you can use. It would be helpful if Healthy Back provided the thickness and ILD’s of their layers but if there is a Pure Latex Bliss dealer near you then the ILD’s of their mattresses are known (see post #2 here).

In general though if you know the construction of an online mattress you are considering then you would need to call and talk with local manufacturers and retailers and ask them if they have a similar mattress available on their floor (for example you could call and say “I’m interested in trying some latex/polyfoam hybrids that have about 3” of Talalay in the top layer over a polyfoam base layer … do you have anything that is similar to this that I could try?“). You could also call and tell them “I’m interested in testing some mattresses that have at least 3” of Talalay latex in the top layers … do you have anything like this I could test?” I would then ask them if they provide the specs of their mattresses (layer thickness and type of latex and possibly even ILD although that wouldn’t be a requirement in terms of knowing the quality of the mattress.

I guess this is at the heart of the long-standing dilemma and hesitancy to buy online without being able to try the mattress out first

This is the reason that an online purchase can be more risky and there are many people who are not comfortable ordering a mattress that they can’t test online … even with a good exchange policy. For someone that isn’t comfortable with an online purchase then a higher price for a local purchase may be better value for them. The only way to know your level of comfort with any online purchase is with more detailed phone conversations with each online manufacturer or retailer you are considering. After these conversations you can more easily decide on your level of comfort with an online purchase.

Also, I don’t fully understand this response: “All of this is part of each person’s personal value equation and each person may have a different set of priorities which is why for one person a mattress that costs $3000 may be better value than a very similar mattress that uses similar materials and only costs $1500 but where the more costly mattress is a better “match” for all the criteria that are most important to them.”

Can you give a specific scenario or scenarios where “a mattress that costs $3000 may be better value than a very similar mattress that uses similar materials and only costs $1500 but where the more costly mattress is a better “match” for all the criteria that are most important to them.?”

You can see some of the criteria that may be among the most important parts of each person’s personal value equation here. The first priority of a mattress is always PPP and quality (so the PPP is maintained for a reasonable time and that a mattress doesn’t lose its comfort and support in a few months or years).

So you could have a mattress that has for example a 1.5" layer of latex on the bottom, two 3" customizable layers of latex in the middle,and a 2" layer of soft latex on top (for a total of 9.5" of latex) with a very high quality cotton cover quilted with wool such as the GreenSleep Dolcezza here which retails for about $3298 in a queen. This mattress may test out “perfect” for someone in some configuration. This would be very similar to a mattress that also had three 3" layers of 100% natural Dunlop latex (for a total of 9") and also had a wool quilted cover such as the SleepEz mattress here which retails for $1995 and where the layers can also be customized.

There may be (and are) some people that would much rather buy the Dolcezza because even though it has about the same amount of 100% natural Dunlop latex (assuming you chose the Dunlop option for the SleepEz mattress) and a similar cover (although the Dolcezza has more wool and is more costly) … they may go with the certainty of a mattress they have tested rather than take a chance on a mattress that they haven’t and that may not be a good a “match” for them in terms of PPP even though the quality of the materials and the durability of the mattress would be very similar or the same and the SleepEz could be further customized with layer exchanges. It may even be true that both mattresses would end up being close equivalents in terms of PPP but one they would know that this was the case before a purchase and the other they wouldn’t. They may also feel more comfortable with the ability to work with a local store vs an online manufacturer for reasons that were important to them. For this person … buying the Dolcezza would be a better match for their personal value equation even though the online mattress would be better value from a commodity point of view. When you are buying a mattress you are really buying the quality of your sleep over a period of time and not just the materials in the mattress. In other words quality and PPP (which is a function of the design of the mattress) are two different things and while both are important … PPP is the most important part of a mattress purchase.

Some people are also much less budget sensitive and put more value on dealing with a local retailer that they like or want to support and that provides the kind of personal service that is important to them and this may be more important to them than even a significant difference in the cost of two similar mattresses. For them … who they buy from may be a more important part of their personal value equation than the cost differences between two “similar but different” mattresses.

For some people the “look” of the mattress may even be a very important consideration (even though it has no effect on PPP) and they may choose a mattress where how they feel “about” the mattress is just as important as how they feel “on” the mattress.

Your own uncertainty would be one example of why some people are willing to pay a significant premium for a mattress that they know before a purchase is a good match rather than take what they consider to be the risk of an online purchase. There is no right or wrong in any of this … only the criteria that are most important to each person and your confidence that a mattress purchase will lead to the quality of sleep (as subjective or relative as that may be) you are looking for over a long enough period of time to justify the cost of the mattress.

Phoenix