I think you misunderstood a couple of my comments. I was talking about ordering a firm or medium layer in place of the soft with the 12-in-1, as you suggested for someone in my weight range, not exchanging the layer after the sale. Apparently they allow the former option for the Freedom but not the 12-in-1 after all.
More importantly, though, your congrats indicates that you think I’ve ordered a mattress already, which I haven’t. I was just running though what my plan is for when we do order (which, like I said, will likely be sooner rather than later at this point).
I did misunderstand you and I thought you were talking about layer exchanges … thanks for the clarification.
I thought you had already made your decision even though you hadn’t actually made your purchase yet so I guess I’ll have to retract my “congratulations” as well until you actually make your final decision and pull the trigger.
Ah, I see what you were saying. (Now I had the misunderstanding!) While my plan isn’t firm yet, I’m hoping to be able to convince my parents to play along. I’d rather have a mattress that I can sleep on for a while than one that breaks down, even if it means I have to pay for part of it as part of the bargain.
By the way, did I ever thank you for all the information you provide on this site? It sure has been helpful!
I had an interesting experience today. At the suggestion of a friend, I went to Kittle’s to view their Mattress MAXX area. They unfortunately only had the major brands, as I expected, but the “Sleep Specialist” there (I put that in quotations as I’m unsure of his credentials) had me A) take a BedMATCH scan to see which firmness I needed, and B ) checked my spine for alignment (both while laying on my back and while in my preferred sleeping position) while on certain mattresses. Given my current weight (~350) it recommended all the way to the right (in the red area). In other words, it almost sounded like the firmer the mattress, the better for me. This, combined with his manual spine-alignment checking, makes me wonder if a cushion-firm firmness isn’t really what I need in terms of support, even though it is what I subjectively leaned toward in terms of comfort during initial testing.
Don’t get me wrong, I know that the BedMATCH system is more of a marketing tool than anything. One thing that makes me wonder if there’s any validity to it, though: when I asked Mario at Brooklyn Bedding which #BME firmness he’d recommend for me (given my stats), he said “Firm”. Given that they allegedly recommend “Medium” for an estimated 95% of their buyers, it does again make me wonder if I actually need a firmer mattress than I had previously realized. Any thoughts, Phoenix?
[quote]This, combined with his manual spine-alignment checking, makes me wonder if a cushion-firm firmness isn’t really what I need in terms of support, even though it is what I subjectively leaned toward in terms of comfort during initial testing.
Don’t get me wrong, I know that the BedMATCH system is more of a marketing tool than anything. One thing that makes me wonder if there’s any validity to it, though: when I asked Mario at Brooklyn Bedding which #BME firmness he’d recommend for me (given my stats), he said “Firm”. Given that they allegedly recommend “Medium” for an estimated 95% of their buyers, it does again make me wonder if I actually need a firmer mattress than I had previously realized. Any thoughts, Phoenix? [/quote]
There are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. In other words … “cushion firm” or “firm” don’t have any specific or “standardized” meaning.
Having said that … there is also some information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges. While the process of how to choose a mattress would be the same … most people in higher weight ranges will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more because of your higher weight) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn’t compress the mattress as much) so I would reduce or minimize the use of lower density materials that would be suitable for people that are in more “average” weight ranges and focus more on higher quality/density and more durable materials (5 lb or higher memory foam, latex, or 2 lb or higher polyfoam) … especially in the comfort layers of a mattress which are more likely to soften or break down before the deeper layers or components in a mattress.
There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
While it’s not possible to predict which specific mattress will be the best “match” for any specific person in terms of comfort and PPP because of all the many variables involved … in very general terms and based on “averages” I would agree that those that are in your weight range would generally do better on firmer mattresses (both in the comfort and support layers or components) than the large majority of people that are in more average weight ranges.
So far, the Bowles mattress stores (Walls and Longs) have impressed me the most out of the brick & mortar options, so I’m kind of gravitating toward them as a possible back up if my parents don’t go along with an online mattress purchase. Additionally, since their mattress is also starting to give way I’m kind of shopping with them in mind as well as myself, and even if I get a mattress online I’m pretty sure they’d want to go the in-store option for themselves. With all this in mind…I found a Bowles mattress that, as far as I can tell, could be better spec-wise than the Silver Imperial, despite costing a bit less. What are your thoughts:
[quote]With all this in mind…I found a Bowles mattress that, as far as I can tell, could be better spec-wise than the Silver Imperial, despite costing a bit less. What are your thoughts:
The specs you listed don’t include the foam densities which are the most important information. If you can find out the information listed in this article and post it on the forum I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials and the mattress as a whole. Without this information it’s not possible to make any meaningful comments about the quality or durability of any mattress.
To give you some insight into my reasoning…I had thought since it had only 1.25" foam material per side in the quilting (the comfort layer is said to be made of “fiber”) and since it was double-sided that it’d be alright. In any case, I have emailed them to find out the foam densities.
The link you listed shows .75" in the comfort layer, another 1.25" in the quilting which is a total of 2" (assuming that there aren’t any additional layers that aren’t listed).
Fiber layers can also tend to pack down and form impressions similar to lower quality polyfoam.
I would also make sure that the mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP since there isn’t a lot of padding in the mattress and I would make sure that the springs are firm enough to support your body weight.
That’s good to know about the fiber layers…I had assumed for some reason that they’d be stronger than low-grade polyfoam. Anyway, I’m not sure about the springs, but – and this is based off recent memory – the mattress did seem softer than the lack of padding would lead one to suspect, while still being on the firmer side of things. It certainly wasn’t as rock-hard as their HD series as a whole felt to me.
Just received an answer…the foam in the quilting is only 1.2 lbs. in the Tahoe II it seems. I guess if anything, this is a good lesson in not just brand shopping!
If there was just a thin layer of quilting foam then the lower quality/density foam wouldn’t be an issue but in combination with other layers that would also be subject to developing impressions that together add up to 2" or more it could certainly be a weak link.
As you mentioned … it’s always a good idea to find out the specifics of the materials and components inside any mattress you are considering because there are many manufacturers that make some mattresses that don’t have any weak links and also make other mattresses that do.
You’ve said in the past that the HD Euro is a good quality mattress. However, it looks like (between the “firm foam” and the “comfort support layer”) it has close to 2" or of potentially low-quality material:
Is this okay because the latex layer is on top of it (and, as such, lessens the impact of those other two layers), or is there some other reason? (Just trying to learn here!)
[quote]You’ve said in the past that the HD Euro is a good quality mattress. However, it looks like (between the “firm foam” and the “comfort support layer”) it has close to 2" or of potentially low-quality material: ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: bowlesmattress.com/res/uploads/produ...files/HDEuroV2_2.pdf
Is this okay because the latex layer is on top of it (and, as such, lessens the impact of those other two layers), or is there some other reason? (Just trying to learn here!) [/quote]
If you can provide the information in this article about their current specs for all the layers in the mattress I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials in the mattress and the mattress as a whole.
I would keep in mind that a mattress that would be “just OK” or “on the edge” in terms of quality and durability for someone that was lighter could be a weak link and be a much more risky choice for someone in your weight range.
You certainly made a great quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to try it out.
Got the mattress today, and am currently sitting on it typing this. Looking forward to going to sleep on it in another hour or so! It does feel a little more “dead” than I was expecting, but I think it’ll be fine.
Also, checked the law tag on my old mattress. Just wanted to see what it said, but I couldn’t help but notice the date “Nov. 29 1984” stamped on it. :ohmy: I knew it was old (my parents handed it down to me after they moved up to a King size), but I had no idea it was THAT old. Don’t know if that was the date of manufacture of the date of sale, though. The crazy thing is, we’re actually replacing it because the quilting is pretty much torn to shreds, not because it’s sagging (though it had sagged a little).
