New Bed Needed - Thinking Latex

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
4

Hi wacomme,

You can read more about the Pranasleep mattresses in post #3 here and in post #2 here and in post #3 here and in posts #1 and #2 here and a forum search on Prana (you can just click this) will also bring up more information and feedback about them as well. As you can see I would be very cautious here because of the thicker layers of lower quality/density materials they tend to use in the top layers of their mattress which could be a weak link in the mattress.

The latex in the Wazee is 100% natural Talalay latex and I think your salesman may be a little confused (or perhaps you misunderstood). The Wazee uses multiple layers that that are different firmness levels so the mattress has a “progressive construction” which means that the softest layer is on the top and the deeper layers are progressively firmer

The Talalay that they use is made by Radium which is one of two manufacturers that make Talalay latex in the world (the other is Latex International) and is supplied by Latexco but they don’t make it. Neither one makes Talalay latex that uses a “new process” that becomes less dense as you go from the bottom to the top (although many Dunlop latex cores are denser on the bottom than on the top).

The only reliable way to know whether any mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP is based on your own testing and personal experience. There is more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress that can help you identify and minimize the risks involved in each of them in post #2 here.

In terms of durability and the useful life of the mattress … latex is among the most durable materials in the industry and 100% natural Talalay made by Radium is a very high quality and durable material and there would be no weak links in the mattress. If it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP and it also compares well to your other “finalists” based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you then it would certainly be well worth considering.

I should also mention that one of the previous comments on the forum about the Wazee indicated that it used 100% natural Dunlop latex but this was incorrect and it uses 100% natural Talalay.

I would tend to choose a few of the retailers/manufacturers that are most interesting to you or that have mattresses you are most interested in testing. I would then make a few phone calls just to get a few more details about what they have available, to get a sense of their knowledge and transparency, and to make sure that they have mattresses on their floor that fit your criteria. If your conversation confirms that they would be worth a visit then I would choose two or three of them to visit and choose a “finalist” at each of the stores you visit (the mattress you would purchase there if you had no other options available). Once you have your list of “finalists” then I would make a final choice between them.

Phoenix

5

Thanks for the information about the manufacturer. However, the salesman showed the the three layers in the Wazee. The bottom 1" layer is soy foam (for less bounce the salesman said). Then there are two latex layers - a 6" layer with a 5" layer on top. Each of these layers look like one piece of latex, not multiple (progressive) layers. So, this “progressive” layering is now very confusing.

6

Hi wacomme,

While there is no specific definition of a “progressive” construction (vs what I call a a differential construction) … it normally refers to a mattress where there are several layers and softest layers are on top of the mattress and each layer below that is firmer than the one above it.

It’s not important at all and it has no bearing on the quality or durability of a mattress as long as the mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP.

Phoenix

7

Thanks.

Is there any feedback available on the mattresses from Foam Source in Boulder, CO? (I’m having a devil of a time finding anything with the search function - ???)

8

Hi wacomme,

The help tab here has more information about searching the site that should be helpful.

There is more information about Foamsource in this topic and a forum search on foamsource (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.

They specialize in latex mattresses (although they have a memory foam mattress as well) that use a range of different types and blends of latex that have different designs and custom firmness options and they have a 60 day comfort exchange policy as well so you can change the comfort or support of your mattress after a purchase.

All of their mattresses use high quality materials and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them.

Phoenix

9

While I am certainly not an expert I am going through the same process in your area. I did not got to Sleep Nation but shopped Urban Mattress in Denver. Urban Mattress only had one all natural latex bed.

I ventured up to Boulder and went to Foam Source or Boulder Comforts and Verlo. It was very convenient as they are within 5 min of each other.

I was pleased with the staff at both stores. I simply liked the latex feel. Matt at Boulder Comforts was very patient and knowledgeable. He showed me the various beds and explained how they are made. He also explained who they get their foam from and the differences between Dunlap and Talalay. I thought I might like a layer of Dunlop and Talalay on top but I was wrong. Glad I didn’t buy a bed online.

Matt also took me in the back room and showed me the process for selecting layers. Based on my impressions of his floor models, Matt came up with a layering system for me. I like that the layers are not glued together so I can make changes if necessary.

Matt also described how the platforms may or may not impact my comfort. He actually suggested cheap platform solutions as well as the platforms he sells and gave me the pros and cons.

I ended up pulling the trigger on a Foam Source bed that will arrive tomorrow. I had an option at Verlo too but I liked the simplicity and feel of the latex bed.

Delivery to the Denver area is is reasonable and also saves a bit on taxes.

I will know more tomorrow when it arrives. I feel good so far.

It is worth a trip to Boulder in my opinion. The only drawback to the smaller companies is there is no refund it’s an exchange. I like the latex feel and if I need to make changes in the layering that is easy to do. Matt said I could even get my layers in the car as they are not as thick which will save a potential delivery fee.

Hope that helps.

10

Hi Pengel,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback and for letting us know what you ended up deciding.

You certainly made a great quality choice … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m hope you have a chance to share your comments when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit as well.

Phoenix

11

I revisited Sleep Nation on County Line Rd. Thursday evening. And while my intent is not to create an argument, I want to clarify what the salesman (I need to get his name) is saying about the Wazee mattress. He insists that it’s 100% natural Talalay made by LatexCo. He says that both the 6" bottom and 5" top layers are “progessive” pours. Meaning - that both both “firm” bottom and “medium” top layers get progressively less dense from bottom to top; a new technology he states. Is this “false” information? I know this is a technical point and does not necessarily affect how the mattress fits me (PPP), but in regards to factual information, the information the salesman is saying and what I’m reading here is highly confusing.

12

[quote=“Pengel” post=48887]While I am certainly not an expert I am going through the same process in your area. I did not got to Sleep Nation but shopped Urban Mattress in Denver. Urban Mattress only had one all natural latex bed.

I ventured up to Boulder and went to Foam Source or Boulder Comforts and Verlo. It was very convenient as they are within 5 min of each other.

I was pleased with the staff at both stores. I simply liked the latex feel. Matt at Boulder Comforts was very patient and knowledgeable. He showed me the various beds and explained how they are made. He also explained who they get their foam from and the differences between Dunlap and Talalay. I thought I might like a layer of Dunlop and Talalay on top but I was wrong. Glad I didn’t buy a bed online.

Matt also took me in the back room and showed me the process for selecting layers. Based on my impressions of his floor models, Matt came up with a layering system for me. I like that the layers are not glued together so I can make changes if necessary.

Matt also described how the platforms may or may not impact my comfort. He actually suggested cheap platform solutions as well as the platforms he sells and gave me the pros and cons.

I ended up pulling the trigger on a Foam Source bed that will arrive tomorrow. I had an option at Verlo too but I liked the simplicity and feel of the latex bed.

Delivery to the Denver area is is reasonable and also saves a bit on taxes.

I will know more tomorrow when it arrives. I feel good so far.

It is worth a trip to Boulder in my opinion. The only drawback to the smaller companies is there is no refund it’s an exchange. I like the latex feel and if I need to make changes in the layering that is easy to do. Matt said I could even get my layers in the car as they are not as thick which will save a potential delivery fee.

Hope that helps.[/quote]

I also made a trip to Boulder and visited Boulder Comfort (foam source). I also visited Haiku in Boulder, but not Verlo. In my opinion, Matt was knowledgeable, but not very helpful. Though they offer a lot of layer customization, Matt wasn’t willing to have me try different layer combinations that weren’t on the showroom floor, though he said he would when I brought my wife along (my wife, though, isn’t interested in spending he time to try different layer combinations - unlike me).

Nevertheless, here is what I found:

Foamsource - 10" latex. 1"
Wool cover. Flexible choices and sides. Molly may like 2" firm, 6" medium, 2"
soft. I like 2" firm, 6" firm, 2" medium (perhaps slight too firm). 100% Talalay all layers. 60 day exchange. Good layer exchange.

We have the option for side-by–side customization. The price is reasonable ($2400), and the only real downside is a no return policy, only layer exchange. So, what if Molly (my wife) and me don’t like latex? The other options in the store are limited.

So this got me thinking about ordering online from a place like mattress.net. While I’d incur shipping charges for layer exchanges or returns, at least I could return the mattress if necessary.

I think my next step is to take my wife to Sleep Nation and Foamsource (Boulder Comfort) to see if she’s even consider the notion of a latex bed. And if we decide to buy locally (Boulder is a distance away, and layer exchanges would be an all-day affair) despite the no return policy I’m leaning towards Foamsouce; I might like the Wazee bed at Sleep Nation slightly better, but it’s also $1000 more expensive. Then again, mattress.net seems quite enticing too.

13

Hi wacomme,

I believe that your salesperson may be misinformed. Latexco doesn’t make Talalay latex (they supply Vita Talalay made by Radium in Holland) and as far as I’m aware they don’t make Talalay latex that is “progressively” poured. You can see the ILD ranges for Radium Talalay in thispicturewhichcamedirectlyfrommycontacthttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3

This is probably a good suggestion because someone else sleeping on a mattress can affect how it feels and performs for you and a couple should always test a mattress together.

I would make sure that both of you have confirmed that you like latex based on actual testing before you buy a latex mattress so that the only potential issue is layer firmness (which can be exchanged) rather than the feel and response of latex itself.

Yes they do have a return policy and for some people this may be an important part of their personal value equation and for others that have confirmed that they like latex or have tested a specific mattress in person and are confident that it’s a good match in terms of PPP it may not be as important. There is more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that can help you assess and minimize the risks involved with each of them in post #2 here.

All of the mattresses you are considering are certainly high quality and durable mattresses and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them. Once you have narrowed down your choices to to a list of finalists that are all choices between “good and good” and if at that point there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing and experiences or online conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, the options you have before and after a purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

14

OK. I need help, and soon.

After the snow storms ended I finally was able to get my wife to Boulder, CO to check out latex mattresses. We went to Boulder Comforts (foamsource.com). Her initial reaction after walking in the store was the odor of rubber balloons. The smell was visceral and overwhelming to her. And the closer she got to the foam the worse it became. She’s a trooper and stayed the course, yet felt ill from the smell. She still preferred her current 15 year old Tempurpedic, yet was “OK” with a soft Talalay latex - 2" firm, 6" medium, and 2" soft. She’s an impulse buyer, yet due to the odor we walked out without buying. While it didn’t really bother me, I smelled the balloon aroma as well in the store. “Maybe it was the number of beds in the store,” we thought. So we went to Verlo. Upon entering the store, no odor. While lying on their latex beds, no odor. Nose to the foam she could smell the rubber, but it was different and not bothersome like that at foamsource.

We explained this to the salesman at Verlo, David. He said “real” latex foam shouldn’t smell, but the “fake” latex foam does - perfumes are added to the fake stuff. The inference was that Foamsource is using “fake” latex, even though they say it’s 100% natural Talalay from Latex International. David said Verlo uses the “real” blended latex, Talalay, from Radium.

My wife found a bed she liked - or at least was acceptable, an 8" blended Talalay Radium mattress - 4" firm, 2" medium, 2" soft. I found it a little more supportive (for back) than the mattress at foamsource. We bought it for $2200, delivered next Thursday. However, I have some concerns:

  1. Is the “fake” claim untrue? Foamsource is highly rated on Mattress Underground. Could they be selling fake latex? Odor has a strong visceral response, and my wife could hardly stand being in the foamsource store. Upon leaving the store she was fine. And gain, she didn’t have an odor response at Verlo. Could this just be manufacturing differences between Latex International (foamsource) and Radium (Verlo)?
  2. I’m also highly concerned that Verlo doesn’t offer a return or exchange policy. There is also no warranty on their latex mattresses.
  3. Does Radium make 4" blended Talalay layers?
  4. Is an 8" latex mattress to thin? I’m 6’ and 155 lbs. My wife is 5’8" and 200 or so pounds. I’m mostly a back sleeper; she’s a side sleeper.

My wife hates mail order and wants to order locally. But we’re somewhat limited in Colorado. Mattressses.net offers a similar mattress for about half the price as Verlo, and they offer exchanges and returns. BTW - is the latex at Mattrresses.net from Latex International or Radium. I’m thinking of canceling the Verlo order and order from mattresses.net instead. I don’t want to anger my wife, but we’ve never had a latex mattress before. I’d hate to spend $2400 on a mattress and hate it with no recourse.

Thoughts?

Michael

15

Also, if we decide to stay with queen Virtue 8" blended talalay Radium mattress from Verlo, is there any disadvantage to not having the layers glue together with latex glue? My wife wants them glued together as suggested by the salesman - so they don’t move around. I’d rather not have them glued together. Without a return or exchange policy, I’d like the option to move the layers around if necessary, or even replace a layer if the situation becomes dire.

Michael

16

Hi wacomme,’

[quote]We explained this to the salesman at Verlo, David. He said “real” latex foam shouldn’t smell, but the “fake” latex foam does - perfumes are added to the fake stuff. The inference was that Foamsource is using “fake” latex, even though they say it’s 100% natural Talalay from Latex International. David said Verlo uses the “real” blended latex, Talalay, from Radium.

  1. Is the “fake” claim untrue? Foamsource is highly rated on Mattress Underground. Could they be selling fake latex? Odor has a strong visceral response, and my wife could hardly stand being in the foamsource store. Upon leaving the store she was fine. And gain, she didn’t have an odor response at Verlo. Could this just be manufacturing differences between Latex International (foamsource) and Radium (Verlo)?[/quote]

There could be many reasons for the difference in smell such as the number of mattresses in the store, the fact that Foam Source uses more 100% natural Talalay which tends to have a stronger “rubber” odor, the particular batches of latex that are currently in thestore (some batches have a stronger initial odor than others) the greater amount of handling or bare layers at Foam Source from rearranging individual layers, along with many other factors including the layout and design of the store itself but any inference that the latex at Foam Source is somehow “fake” is complete and utter nonsense and someone that would imply this seems to know very little about latex and is obviously trying to make the sale by telling you anything they think you are likely to believe. Foam Source offers both 100% natural Talalay and Blended Talalay (which is 30% natural rubber and 70% synthetic rubber).

There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and there is more about the smell of latex in post #2 here.

An exchange or return policy or the ability to fine tune the comfort or support of a mattress by rearranging or exchanging layers or making adjustments to a mattress can certainly be an important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase if you aren’t certain that a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Verlo has a lifetime comfort guarantee where they will make changes to your mattress if you need it and Foam Source has layer exchanges that allow you to fine tune your mattress by rearranging layers or exchanging a layer.

Mattress warranties cover defects in a mattress and not the gradual loss of comfort and support that is the main reason that people will need to buy a new mattress so they have little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress (see post #174 here). Having said that … defects are always possible (and tend to show up early in the life of a mattress) so having no warranty at all would be very risky if they won’t replace a mattress that has defective materials. I believe that all Verlo mattresses have a warranty so if a particular mattress they are selling doesn’t have one then it could be a floor model or a comfort exchange that is being sold “as is” which would be a much more risky purchase. I would make sure you clarify this.

Radium makes 6" cores that can be slit to any thickness less than that.

The thickness of a mattress or individual layers is only one of many factors that is part of the design of a mattress so by itself it means very little but there is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here.

Unfortunately there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to predict whether any mattress will be a good match for you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) and the only reliable way to know whether any mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP is based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience.

They can supply both but their most popular mattresses use Radium.

There is more about the pros and cons of glued vs unglued layers in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

Once you are down to your list of “finalists”, if they are all choices between “good and good” and none of them have any weak links or lower quality materials in their design and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing, your conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, the prices, the exchange or return options you have after a purchase, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

17

It’s so easy to be led astray. Since David at Verlo was talking about “Faketex” in reaction to my wife’s visceral response to the smell of 100% Talalay latex at Boulder Comforts, she’s now paranoid about buying a latex mattress that is not “Faketex”. Now, my wife did react quite strongly to the smell of the latex mattresses at Boulder Comforts, and smell can elicit a strong emotional response. But the false information of “Faketex” is worrisome. The mattress we were looking at Verlo was blended latex. I just wish David at Verlo didn’t imply (knowingly or not) that the latex at Boulder Comforts might be “Faketex”. Argh.

Having bought the 8" latex mattress at Verlo (delivery scheduled for Thursday), I started to wonder about the no return, no exchange policy, so I call David on Sunday. He confirmed that while their non-latex mattresses have a comfort guarantee, this guarantee doesn’t apply to their latex mattresses - thus buy the mattress with no recourse.

The “short” story is that last night I was reluctantly able to convince my wife that we should buy the 10000 bed from SleepEZ - firm (38-40 ILD), medium (30-32 ILD), soft (19-22 ILD) blended Talalay from Radium. So today I called David at Verlo to cancel my order. He immediately got in touch with the owner and offered a 30-day return policy (sans cover - cost $175 and pickup, $150).

This complicates matters. When I tell my wife about this offer she’ll surely take it over the mail-order (SleepEZ) alternative. But I’m not so sure:

  1. Verlo’s mattress is still $600 more expensive than the SleepEZ 10000 mattress.
  2. Return with Verlo is $325 vs. $99 with SleepEZ
  3. Layer exchange is possible with SleepEZ ($30), not with Verlo.
  4. I have tried the Verlo mattress in the showroom floor - not so with SleepEZ; though the mattress we’ll receive will be new in both cases. Plus, how much can one tell by laying on the mattress in the showroom for 10 minutes?
  5. The layers in the Verlo are glued together; separate and split in the SleepEZ.
  6. 30-day return at Verlo; 90-day return and exchange at SleepEZ.
  7. The salesman at Verlo created undue concern about “Faketex” latex (“If it’s white, has small holes, and smells, it’s going back,” my wife now tells me - believing David at Verlo). This bothers me.

Also, I’ve read that a split mattress (and non-glued layers) are NOT a problem, that you don’t feel the split, and the layers don’t move around. Now, my wife often moves over to my side of the bed during the night, laying in the middle of the mattress and pushing me to the edge. Would a split mattress be of concern in this case?

Anyhow, I’m very weary and confused. My gut tells me that despite Verlo’s return offer, I should go with SleepEZ and buy a mattress from them, “sight unseen” as my wife would say. But to convince my wife of this . . .

Michael

18

Any thoughts/comments would be most appreciated.

19

Hi wacomme,

Most of the choices you are making are “best judgement” choices that will be need to be based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you and on whether you and your wife can agree. Hopefully your choices will be based on “factual” information.

Having said that … other than the previous link about making final choices I can make a few comments that may help.

Considering that the blended Talalay at Foamsource would be the same type and blend of latex as the blended Talalay at Verlo … if they consider the blended Talalay at Boulder to be “Faketex” then their own latex would be the same thing.

It’s sometimes amazing what a “lost sale” can do for store policies. I was curious about the lack of a comfort guarantee on your mattress so I talked with another store and they told me that the most likely reason there was no comfort guarantee for your specific mattress was probably because the layers are glued so they wouldn’t be able to remove a layer and add a different layer and that they also wouldn’t have other firmness choices available for latex. Interestingly enough they also told me that they were gradually introducing component mattress options to their lineup with zip covers that allow for individual layers to be exchanged (like Foamsource, SleepEZ, and Arizona Premium) and that the latex version of their component mattress would probably be available in 3-4 months. There is also more about the construction of the Verlo Harmony Virtue in post #1 here (unless they’ve changed it) that may be a useful reference point.

In most cases careful testing using the testing guidelines and spending 15 - 20 minutes on a mattress can come close enough to predicting your actual sleeping experience that only minor fine tuning would be necessary if any is necessary at all (see post #4 here). Of course this would be true for “most people” but not for “all people”. There is always some additional risk with an online choice where you haven’t tested the mattress in person or the mattress is different from a specific design that you have tested locally but return and exchange options can lower the risk of online choices. There is more about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the most suitable “match” for your specific needs and preferences and how to identify and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them in post #2 here.

You can read more about the pros and cons of split layers in post #2 here. She would probably be able to feel the difference in firmness on each side if she was lying across the middle of the bed but not the actual “split” itself. For most people the pros of a split layer would outweigh the cons and the different firmness levels on each side isn’t an issue but this is another one of those issues that your own personal experience will be the only way to know how she feels about it and if for some reason it was an issue then you would would have the “backup” of being able to exchange a layer so the firmness of the top layer at least was the same on each side.

I hope that you and your wife can find a consensus … but that’s not something that I can help with :slight_smile:

Phoenix

20

Thanks Phoenix!

This is very interesting. David at Verlo said that he could get the Virtue mattress unglued, but it would take 3-4 weeks. However, and unfortunately, he convinced my wife that glued was better than unglued.

[quote]
You can read more about the pros and cons of split layers in post #2 here. She would probably be able to feel the difference in firmness on each side if she was lying across the middle of the bed but not the actual “split” itself. For most people the pros of a split layer would outweigh the cons and the different firmness levels on each side isn’t an issue but this is another one of those issues that your own personal experience will be the only way to know how she feels about it and if for some reason it was an issue then you would would have the “backup” of being able to exchange a layer so the firmness of the top layer at least was the same on each side.[/quote]

Jody at SleepEZ suggested similar configurations for my wife and me with the 10000 mattress: firm (38-40 ILD), medium (30-32 ILD), soft (19-22 ILD), for each of the three layers, bottom to top, all blended Talalay from Radium (Radium, specifically, and blended, since that was the latex at Verlo to which my wife did NOT have an odor reaction). I’m mostly a back sleeper and my wife is a side sleeper, yet despite our different body shapes (me, 6’ and 155 lbs., wife 5’8" and 200ish lbs.), my wife favors a soft mattress and I want one to support my lower back, so I guess the same mattress will work for both of us. A split would add the versatility of adjusting layer order and layer exchange, and possible adjustments over time.

:slight_smile:

Phoenix[/quote]

21

Hi wacomme,

I’m looking forward to finding out what the two of you end up deciding :slight_smile:

Phoenix

22

Oh my. The ordeal has been interesting - to say the least.

We ordered a 10" queen mattress from SleepEZ… The layers were 3" firm (bottom), 3" medium (middle), and 3" soft (top) split down the middle. After my wife got past the smell factor - basically none, unlike the intense latex smell in a showroom - we slept on the mattress for two months. During this time, my lower back pain improved (I’m 6" and 155 #). My wife kept her mouth shut, saying she liked our 16 year-old Tempurpedic mattress better, but not complaining. Then, after two months, she complained that she now has lower back pain upon awakening, something she never experienced before. Since she is 5’8" and over 200#, I suggested I removed the soft layer from her side of the bed and add a medium - firm, medium, medium. Two weeks later and she says her back is a little better, but still hurts. So, last night I changed her side to firm, firm, medium. And in the process I’m on something super soft and my lower back pain is returning; I now have soft, soft, medium (top).

With less than two weeks to either exchange layers or return the mattress (90 day return/exchange) I’m not sure what to do. And neither does my wife. My wife wants a Tempurpedic. I’m scared it won’t offer the lower back support I need. My wife has never been enamored with latex - toleration at best But since she now has back pain (I can only deduce this is from the mattress), I can’t warrant keeping the mattress. And with time running out and back pain not resolved, I don’t know if a different firmness arrangement would resolve her lower back pain or not. And with problems already, I’m not willing to take the chance.

Other observations:

  1. The mattress split has been nice to change layers around. However, the split is noticeable. There’s a slight ridge in the middle of the bed. And when my wife comes to my side to cuddle, the layer difference is very noticeable. If we end up keeping the mattress, and she can “tolerate” a firm, medium medium, I may settle for a firm, medium medium too in order to keep our sides the same. I’ve napped on her side of the bed with the firm, medium medium, and while OK, I seem to prefer the firm, medium, soft. I don’t how how I’d fair on the firm, medium, medium long-term.

  2. The sides of the bed, especially with a soft layer underneath, seem to fall away. This is real obvious when sitting on the edge of the bed, but also noticeable when lying on the bed and rolling to the edge of the mattress - it drops away.

  3. Movement on the mattress is much more noticeable than with Tempurpedic.

So, while neither one of us has a love affair with the mattress, when properly adjusted (for me firm, medium, soft) my lower back pain went away within a month of sleeping on the bed. Unfortunately, my wife has the opposite story. So, where do we go from here? With 1.5 weeks before I need to make an exchange/return decision, I don’t rightfully know. If we return the bed, where do we go next? If we exchange layers, to what?

I wish I could be more positive. Sorry.

Michael

23

Hi Michael,

As you know you certainly made a great quality value choice but that of course doesn’t mean that you will sleep well on a mattress and I’m sorry to hear that you (or your wife) are having issues with your mattress.

It’s unfortunate that she didn’t mention the issues she was having earlier but you still have many options available to you although it sounds like she may not like the “feel” of latex and may prefer memory foam anyway in which case there may not be many options available that will satisfy her because latex certainly doesn’t “feel like” memory foam and if she has a strong preference for memory foam then she may be predisposed to return the mattress anyway no matter what happens.

There is some information in post #2 here about the most common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most common causes for them that may help you identify the reasons for her experiences and "symptoms.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

The first thing I would suggest though is a phone call to SleepEZ so you can take advantage of their knowledge and experience with other customers that are similar to you that have had similar issues since you may not be making the type of changes that would be the most likely to help with her “symptoms”. They will be the most reliable source of suggestions that can help although if your wife is predisposed to memory foam then even if the suggestions are successful she still may not want to keep the mattress.

The most common cause of lower back pain is an alignment issue that comes from either support layers that are too soft or comfort layers that are too thick or soft.

The incremental change that I would normally start with in her situation would be to exchange the medium and firm layer in her side to “firm up” the support but allow her to keep the softer sleeping surface (from top to bottom this would be S/F/M)

After this if it was necessary I would also try exchanging the top two layers which would give her a slightly firmer sleeping surface (from top to bottom this would be M/S/F).

There are many other combinations that would also be worth considering that could firm up the support even more (including from top to bottom M/F/M or S/F/F) but I would base any further changes on the results of these first two based on what you “learned” from any changes in her “symptoms” between different configurations.

Again though … the first step when you need to make any changes is to have a more detailed telephone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer such as SleepEZ so you can take advantage of their knowledge and experience to make the kind of changes that have the best chance of success because most consumers don’t really have the knowledge or experience on different layering combination to really know the type of changes would be most likely to work on their own.

They may also be willing to extend the trial period to give you a little more time but I think this would only be worthwhile considering if your wife would keep the mattress if her “symptoms” were resolved since it may not be worthwhile taking the time to find the best combination if she really doesn’t want to sleep on latex anyway.

If there is a ridge in the middle it may be because the layers aren’t laying flat (latex is very stretchy and floppy and you need to “wave” and “flick” the layers into position so they are laying evenly and flat) or it could be from the foundation underneath your mattress if you have a twin foundation where the sides of each foundation where they come together in the middle are firmer and the middle of the foundations have some flex. Other than this the bigger the difference between the sides the more you may feel the transition between them although most couples would say that the tradeoff is well worthwhile (see post #2 here).

Most latex mattresses don’t have (or really need) edge support (see post #3 here) and for most people it’s not an issue but for a few it is and this is also related to the softness/firmness of the support layers and the softness of the comfort layers as well and of course whether someone tends to sleep with more of their weight concentrated on the edges of the mattress. For sitting it’s usually just a matter of sitting a little more towards the middle of the mattress than on the very edge. These are usually issues that are part of testing for PPP when you are trying latex mattresses.

While latex is generally “good” at motion isolation … it certainly isn’t as good as memory foam which is the most motion isolating of all the foam materials.

Hopefully a more detailed conversation with SleepEZ will be your next step along with some of the suggestions in this reply :slight_smile:

Phoenix