Unfortunately … these specs don’t include the most important spec for some of the layers which is the density of the polyfoam used because density is the only way to know the quality and durability of polyfoam or memory foam. Layer thickness (which they include) and ILD are secondary to the density but can also help. They do include the density and ILD of the polyfoam in the comfort layer which is 1.5 lbs and 23 ILD which is on the low side for density especially if it is under supersoft quilting foam (although it is very commonly used). All together … this has 3" of lower density polyfoam over the latex and the coils and it’s quite likely that the quilting layers are 1.2 lb or less. It seems to me that the extra firm which has higher density and firmer foam in the top layers and less of the 1.5 lb polyfoam under this would likely be a better choice out of the Luminas IMO.
While the price is a little less … the specs aren’t that much different from something like the Simmons here (which has a pocket coil which has a higher coil count and is a little firmer at 13 gauge and uses .5" of 5 lb memory foam in the mix) which uses similar 1.2 and 1.5 lb polyfoams in a similar thickness in the quilting and comfort layers.
While I have no issues with using low density polyfoams in a mattress … the price and durability expectations should also reflect it. If I am looking at a budget range in the area of $1000 plus … I would hope for better or at the very least that the lower density layers were limited to thinner quilting layers.
I still havent heard back from either urban mattress or sherwood. The plush doesnt have as mush polyfoam as i had thought considering how soft it is and how much some of the name brand mattress manufacturers use. I also contacted sleeplikeabear to ask about whether or not the rejuvenite topper would be enough if i did decide to go with the extra firm. They sent a reply with a dozen questions which i answered and replied again saying that the rejuvenite plush would be fine in their opinion based on my answers. Im still worried that the extra firm and the topper might not be enough. It is only $599 for the extra firm as opposed to $699 for the plush or firm. Not really sure if i would get that $100 difference back though.
The Lumina extra firm has an 11.5" profile. This means it has 3.5" of “other ingredients” besides the innerspring. Of this … 1" is base foam and .5" is latex which means that there is only 2" of polyfoam and at least some of this is higher density than the other two models according to what I was told.
The luxury firm has a 13" profile. Since it has the same base layer and the same .5" of latex, the polyfoam remaining would be 3.5" and lower density than the extra firm.
The luxury plush has .5" more for a total of 4" of polyfoam and the polyfoam “mix” would also include lower density.
What this tells me is that out of the 3 lumina models, I would clearly choose the extra firm as a base for a latex topper because of the higher density and thinner layers of foam that would be in between the springs and the latex. I agree with SLAB that the 3" topper would likely be enough. Going with either of the 2 “plush” models would likely give you too much soft foam in the upper layers and because the polyfoam is lower density … you would also have a greater risk that the lower density polyfoam would soften and break down sooner.
The prices you are quoting for the Lumina range would put all of these in a much better “value” range as well. Even if you had to “throw away” the extra $100 … it would still be worth it to me to eliminate the extra lower density foam and give you a mattress and topper combination that had better odds of being more suitable for you. In other words … I would see the extra foam as a “negative”. Perhaps they could throw in something else to make up for any shortfall but gaining the extra foam would not be my choice.
IMO … It just wouldn’t be worth exchanging for a more expensive mattress that could actually be worse if used in combination with a topper. If I was exchanging for just the mattress and didn’t plan to add a topper … then I would buy the version (probably the luxury firm) that was a little too firm and let is soften into being more suitable for me . with a topper though … the extra firm would clearly seem like the best way to go.
I recieved the reply emails from urban mattress. They werent able to provide any new info about the luminas but gave me some info about the urban organics line. The core is a 6" 36 ILD talalay and one or two 2" 24 ILD comfort layers depending on the size( 8" or 10"). I think that the core will be too stiff so im not going to spend the extra $1,000+ on one of those. So that leaves me with either exchanging for the extra firm or the luxury firm. I can already feel the plush getting indentions on either side, leaving the middle and outer edges not as soft. And it hasnt even been a month yet. Im leaning towards the extra firm and investing in a rejevenite topper and possibly a small layer of poly from foambymail if needed. Or maybe even getting the luxury firm and still adding the rejuvenite topper. Im regreting not going with an all latex that i could customize to my preference instead of what the store offers. But i cant throw away the $750 ive spent and go buy one. Its now down to deciding between the firm or extra firm since the plush is getting softer and softer and reminding me of our previous double pillowtop, cavernous nightmare.
FWIW … this is a pretty “standard” layering and most support cores are in the range of 32 - 36. The layers on top are also fairly standard and would be classified as “soft”. Of course testing these would be the only way to know for certain … the core firmness in combination with one of the two comfort layers would work well for many people. This would also be very similar to the ILD of most polyfoam support cores. Just as a point of reference … SleepEz’s most common layering would have a 3" layer of 30 - 32 ILD (medium) and then a 3" layer of 38 - 40 ILD (firm) in the support layers with 22 - 24 ILD in the top layer and many people go firmer than this or even go with Dunlop which is firmer yet.
The luxury firm would likely have very similar foams to the one you have now except a little bit thinner (.5") so this would be quite risky compared to the extra firm. It would also likely give you too much soft foam in the top of your mattress and would compromise good support with a 3" topper IMO. In effect … with a 3" topper … some of the softer foam in the top of the Lumina would become part of your support system (would be further down in your sleeping system) and would be almost certainly be too soft to provide adequate support … especially when it started to soften as well.
Of course your own needs and preferences are the most important thing … but wouldn’t you receive credit for the mattress you have if you ordered the latex mattress? While neither may be the best layering for you … if you were to test them and one of them was … then it would represent much better value over the life of the mattress IMO and you would have a mattress that maintained it’s qualities over a much longer period of time. Of course the lumina with a topper would also be a real “value” improvement as well.
My wife and i have decided to go back to urban mattress to seriouslly try out the urban organics line. Does anyone have any feedback on these mattresses? The last time I went i really liked the feel of the one I layed on. I think it was the 8". We would definately get credit for the mattress we have now to go towards either another lumina or an urban organics. I called a moment ago and they said that somone was looking at the 8" thay had and were possibly going to buy it. Im wondering if they are selling the floor models? They also said they usually take about a week to arrive once ordered. How much different would a brand new one feel compared to the ones on the floor?
$2,000 is just a scary amount to spend on a mattress but i guess it makes sense considering we spend 10s of 1,000s on cars which we are only in for maybe an hour a day.
Also would the lumina frame we have now be enough to support the urban organics mattress if we decided to go that route? Its just a basic wood frame with minimal slats and cardboard on top of them.
It wouldn’t feel much different at all. Latex doesn’t have an initial softening period like other foams so the floor models would be almost the same as a new mattress with the exception that the fabrics used in the ticking may have stretched a bit which would slightly soften the surface.
I certainly understand this but as you mentioned … we spend more time with our mattress than any other major purchase and it also has a bigger effect on how we feel than almost anything else we own. Assuming a more expensive mattress is made of quality materials and gives us the pressure relief and support we need … then the more durable materials would actually be more economical in the long term compared to mattresses that soften much faster and need to be replaced much more often (or tolerated in some cases). The key is to make sure that the greater expense is justified with higher quality more durable materials that give it better value and make it worth spending the extra.
Probably not. A latex mattress is heavy and also very elastic so it would need a foundation with more slats and better more even support. There should be no more than a maximum of a 3" gap (at most and preferably less) between the slats. I also would not use one which had cardboard on the surface because it would reduce air circulation and moisture control between the foundation and the mattress.
If we had to get a matching frame that would bring up the price a few hunderd bucks on the urban organics. Im guessing they are nice mattresses since i can find no reviews of them online (no one complaining!) .
The plush is still getting deeper which is a suprise. This might be the cause of some lower back pain ive been having recently? Im starting to think getting the luxury firm would be a really bad decision considering how this one is turning out and they only have a half inch of foam difference.
We will try to lay on the extra firm with a thicker topper than the PLB, probably a memory foam, when we go back on sunday to try and get an idea of how it would kind of feel if i added the rejuvenite. We will also seriouslly consider the urban organics. I just wish there was more info on them. But that might not be a bad thing. Thanks again phoenix for providing insight and a place to talk about my mattress woes!
The Urban organics are to my knowledge an “all latex” mattress with no polyfoam in the mix. This means that they would be very durable and keep their feel and performance much longer than other materials that will soften faster than latex. It would be rare that you would find a review online about any latex mattress (at least one that really was all latex and not something else that was “sold” as all latex) that complained about the quality of the mattress … although it would be more common to see reviews that showed that someone made a choice of layering that didn’t work out for their needs and preferences.
The initial softening of polyfoam and memory foam will usually last about 90 days and then become more gradual. The lower the density … the more it will likely soften. This could certainly contribute to back issues, especially if the initial softness and layering of the mattress was already “on the edge” of what was best for you.
This would be a good idea. Bear in mind that most memory foams will allow you to “sink through” them and feel the firmer layers underneath more easily than latex and that a lower ILD latex such as the 14 ILD PLB, even of the same thickness, will also allow you to go “through” it into the firmer layer more easily than a firmer ILD such as 19 or 24 ILD which would still be soft but keep you “off” the firmer layers more effectively. I’m mentioning this so you can take the differences between different types of toppers … even of the same thickness … into account in your testing.
Well we went by urban mattress today. Shane and staff were extremely helpful as always. They have my highest recomendation. We tried the urban organics 8" and it was fantastic. We then gave the extra firm another shot and it was not even close to as bad as before. Im not sure if the foam had broken in a bit or we were just sick of the sinking feeling from the plush. The urban organics was definately better but the lumina extra firm was just fine for us both and with a memory foam topper even better. The replacement lumina extra firm will be arriving tuesday night sometime so we are looking forward to that.
Now i have to decide if i want to go ahead and get the rejuvenite topper. Ill continue that in another topic.
So we have slept on the extra firm for a few nights now and i can honestly say that it is not too hard. When you first touch it and lay down it does seem to firm but once you are settled its fine. I dont even have hip or shoulder pain from it. Im guessing its because of the 15 guage coils underneath allowing us too sink down just enough. I think it was a wise decision going with the extra firm. Now we will see how it feels with the topper.
Your pillow/mattress sleeping system is looking more promising
That would be my guess as well … and in combination with the firmer, thinner, higher density polyfoams on top and the latex topper the initial and ongoing softening process is less likely to lead to everything becoming too soft. I’m looking forward to hearing how the topper/mattress combination works for you.
Hey there bettinamonk, I’d be curious to know how things turned out for you with the Lumina xtra firm? I’m looking at that particular mattress in particular & my biggest worry is getting a significant body impression. I’ve read this whole thread and it seems from Phoenix’s assessment, that this particular model (vs. the other two Sherwoods mentioned) would be the least likely to develop an impression. I actually prefer a very firm mattress, so that’s not really an issue & even if it is … I’m prepared to go with some topper combination to mitigate. I’m currently just looking for a very firm mattress which won’t get a sinkhole … which wreaks havoc on my back which has numerous issues. Hopefully, yours has worked out.
Well, our combo of the extra firm and a 3" rejuvenite topper has been great. The extra firm actually softened a bit before we received the latex topper. Not anywhere close to what the plush did though. We can notice very slight impressions forming on each side but nothing like the caverns the plush had within a week of sleeping on it. We’ve just chalked it up to being a cheaper build mattress.
Thank you for your reply bettinamonk. Glad to hear the combination has seemed to have worked well for you! … especially the lack of significant impressions … which has been what’s killing my back on the past few mattresses I’ve owned. The price of this particular mattress is relatively appealing vs. what some of them might cost upwards of $2,000. Although at this point, I’d spend the $$$ if I knew it was going to last (and not develop caverns as you put it). I live in a very remote area of Colorado … so it’s difficult to either find a showroom nearby with a large selection or absorb the delivery fee if I do travel to a big city (i.e Denver, Phoenix, or SLC – all over 6hrs away).
Might I ask if you have a link to the specific topper you purchased? Perhaps it’s the same one as this:
… then again, as I mentioned, would be willing to spend the money if I knew it was going to be a good fit. I actually prefer a very firm matress … so might be able to get away without the topper. However, was kind of wondering if the presence of a topper mitigates impressions by dispersing body weight to the lower level (actual mattress)?
Yes that’s the topper we bought. I’m not sure if the topper makes the dips more or less noticeable. If you are willing to spend it, go with all latex. That’s what we’ll do when we buy a house and use the mattress we have now as the guest bed.
A couple of additional comments that may be helpful …
There are some latex topper sources in post #4 here that are less costly than SLAB (although SLAB has a great latex selection).
Yes … a topper will extend the life of the upper layers of a mattress (which is usually the weak link) because they will absorb some of the compression and forces that would otherwise soften and degrade the upper layers of the mattress. The other advantage of a topper is that if it wears out faster than the mattress … it can be replaced without replacing the whole mattress. Latex is much more durable than the polyfoams that are used in the Lumina although the extra firm would be more durable than the other models because there is less polyfoam in them and firmer foam is more durable than softer foam (it doesn’t compress and wear as much).
Thanks for the reply Phoenix, you seem to be very knowledgeable & are certainly helpful!
yeah, was kind of thinking about it in terms analogous to wearing snow shoes … where you don’t sink into the snow to your waist like one would without wearing them. Same sort of concept of dispersing impacting horizonatally. Just not sure if it applied directly to mattresses.
Yes … it’s exactly the same principle of distributing pressure away from the pressure points but applied in different ways. The difference is in a mattress the pressure is dispersed with a cradling effect that comes from the softer upper layers that take on the shape of the body and brings a larger surface area into contact with the mattress to support the weight while with snowshoes it’s done with a rigid shoe which disperses weight over a larger surface area because of it’s rigidity.
