New Latex Mattress = New Lower Back Pain

Hi, I’m very much a newbie at mattress buying, and now am in a predicament of my own making. I’m hoping that I can get some sage advice from this forum. Please excuse my blatant ignorance and obvious mistakes.

This fall my wife and I decided to finally replace our 10 year old Restonic innerspring mattress that was sagging in the middle. After almost no research, other than to determine that organic latex seemed like a good idea, we ordered a medium-firm Harmony from Astrabeds. Construction is three 3" layers of Dunlop latex, with densities of (bottom to top) 90, 80, 70, topped with a wool comfort layer.

Mattress delivered and installed, we started using it and I started getting lower back pain that I could not relieve by changing position. Not every night, but more often than not. I’m mostly a side sleeper, and on the old mattress if I would ever start to feel pain, I would just rollover, which would realign things. Thinking I needed the new mattress to be firmer, I reversed the order of the layers. Not only did this not help me, but my wife hated the change. We finally gave up and returned the mattress.

Thinking that I still needed firm, but with better conformity/comfort, I discovered Essentia, which makes a slow-release latex akin to memory foam. This time I visited their store in New York City while on a work trip. After talking with the rep and trying the different mattresses, I got a queen Classic 8, which has 6" of Dunlop latex (no idea of density) topped with 2" of 5.25 lb latex “memory foam”.

Mattress delivered and installed, first night was awful. Neither of us could get comfortable. Second night (last night) we added an old 2" foam egg crate layer we had on the guest bed. It was marginally more comfortable, but I still had back pain.

To add to my confusion, during the interim between the Astrabed and the Essentia, we used our guest bed, which is a 25 year old (at least) double innerspring with the 2" egg crate. We both slept really well!

So here we are. I’ve read a bunch of posts here this morning, and I apparently had my head on backwards. My wife (5’3" and 120lbs) and I (5’9" and 145 lbs) are fairly light and are both back and side sleepers. So I guess we should have been looking at softer mattresses. So what do we do? Exchange this mattress for another Essentia? Add additional comfort layers? Return it and go with yet another brand?

Please help!

Hi shaxpere,

I’m sorry to hear that your mattresses didn’t work out for you as well as you hoped for.

While both of the mattresses you purchased use good quality materials … It certainly sounds like neither one of them was a good “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences).

While it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing (at least to the degree that any symptoms are from your mattress rather than the result of any other circumstances or pre-existing issues you may have that aren’t connected to a mattress).

While the most common cause of lower back pain is a mattress that is too soft … it can also be caused by a mattress that is too firm and if I had to guess based on your comments I would say that this is probably what is happening in your case.

There are also some comments about Essentia and some of the misleading claims they make and some forum discussions with them (as well as some of the FTC issues they have had about their claims) in this thread and this thread and posts #3 and #4 here). I certainly wouldn’t treat the information on their website (or on some of the other websites I’ve seen that write about them) as a reliable source of “fact based” information and I would also make some very careful “value” comparisons before considering any Essentia mattress because they tend to be in a much higher budget range than other mattresses that use similar quality materials as well and for most people they certainly wouldn’t be the best value choice.

It’s possible that adding a topper may solve the issues you are having … but if you can’t test the mattress/topper combination in person then there is always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress.

While only you can decide what to do … given the cost of the Essentia mattress and the uncertainty that can be involved in adding a topper … if I was in your shoes I would probably lean towards returning it and starting over again so you can choose a mattress that is a better “match” for you in terms of PPP.

If you decide to try a topper then there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable supplier that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.

If you decide to purchase a different mattress … the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

If you are looking at online options then the tutorial includes several links to lists of the better online manufacturers and retailers I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include a wide range of different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of different designs, firmness levels and budgets and many of them have good return policies as well.

If you are also interested in local options that you can test in person before a purchase then if you let me know your city or zip code I’d also be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area as well.

Phoenix

Wow, thanks for the quick, detailed reply! I’ll start reading through the information. My zip code is 17019.
Thanks, and Happy New Year!

Hi shaxpere,

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of that are in reasonable driving distance of Dillsburg, PA (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.

Phoenix

So I’m slowly working through the information you’ve pointed me to. Do you have a copy of the lab test results on the essentia foam? The link to it in the other posts are broken.

Also, we tried adding some more foam layers that we had around (don’t ask, we’re recovering pack rats…), for a total of five inches. We’re now sleeping comfortably, though I think it may be just a little too soft. But at least I feel like I’m heading in the right direction.

I contacted Essentia by email, and one thing they said is that the mattress starts out hard because of the way it’s compressed for shipping, but it softens up with used, and can take up to a month to reach its full softness. This seems a little odd, though it does explain why their return policy requires you to keep the mattress for thirty days before you can return it.

Hi shaxpere,

The links in post #63 here are working.

There will be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the foam layers lose any of their initial “false firmness” and soften a little and the cover stretches and loses any initial stiffness and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress.

Phoenix

I had the same problem with my latex at first. I did a knee walk slowly all over and it did take a few weeks and now I love it. Still contemplating a softer topper but it is coming up on a year I did the beautiful latex from pure latex bliss.

Hi delwind,

Thanks for the update … and it’s great to hear that you love your mattress almost a year after your original feedback here :).

Phoenix

I haven’t had much time to look into mattresses, but since reading the poor view of Essentia on this forum, I’ve done a little digging. Their website is a marketer’s dream, and is a mire of obsfucation and somewhat misleading statements. For example, they talk about their organic Dunlop latex, and the importance of organic mattresses, but they never actually say that their “natural latex memory foam” or the mattress as whole is organic! Since I was under the impression I was buying organic, I’m disappointed, to say the least. That said, I’m still trying to wrap my head around a company claiming to make a latex based memory foam that, based on the test results Phoenix showed me, appears to have no latex in it at all! So either they are flat out lying, the test results are incorrect, or somewhere in-between. For example maybe they are making a fairly standard memory foam, but including enough latex to say it has latex, but not enough to be picked up in the lab. I don’t know.

In my quest for knowledge, I asked Essentia directly via email about the ingredients in the memory foam, and they pointed me to this page on their website:

So, let’s assume for the moment that this is accurate. Can those of you who know more about how foams are made translate this long list of chemicals for me? Does it look complete?

Also, for those of you who are interested, I took a closer look at the law tags for my mattress and pillows. I can provide pics if anyone cares to see them. Here’s what they say:

Classic 8 Mattress:
Shell - 100% Organic Cotton
Liner - 100% Kevlar Knit
Filler - Organic Cotton, Natural Latex Memory Foam

Comfort Pillow:
Shell - 100% Organic Fabric
Liner - 100% Organic Cotton
Filler - Natural Latex Memory Foam

Hi shaxpere,

That’s because their latex and their mattress isn’t certified organic. They do have a Greenguard certification that tests their mattresses for harmful VOC’s so I would consider their mattresses to be “safe enough” but it’s also true that all of the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable safety certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or Greenguard Gold and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex to be a very “safe” material in terms of harmful substances and VOC’s.

There is also more information about the different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you or whether a “safety” certification is enough.

All latex foam (including 100% natural Dunlop and Talalay and organic latex) uses a small amount of chemicals to manufacture the latex (see post #18 here) but the manufacturers don’t release the specifics of their compounding formula which is a closely guarded secret.

While I’m not a chemical engineer so I can’t speak to all the differences in their chemical formulations … the two main “chemical” differences between Talalay and Dunlop is that Talalay latex uses carbon dioxide gas as a gelling agent while Dunlop latex uses sodium fluorosilicate. Natural Dunlop latex is also often manufactured closer to the latex plantations so in many cases it needs less ammonia or other stabilizing agents to stabilize the latex and prevent it from coagulating or putrefying before it’s used while Talalay is made in Holland (Radium) or in the USA (Talalay Global) so the liquid field latex they use may contain higher levels of ammonia or other chemicals to stabilize it before it’s used to manufacture the latex. Most of the ammonia is removed during the foaming process either way.

You can also see some comments about the chemicals that they have listed in post #60 here.

It would be great to attach a picture of your law tag to your post. You can also see some comments about their law tags (and a picture of a law tag for the Opus mattress) in posts #21 - #25 here. Their law tags are ambiguous because even if you give them the benefit of the doubt the natural latex in their mattresses is a different material from what they are calling “natural latex memory foam” and they should probably be listed as separate ingredients. The first two words may also be referring to the latex and the last two words may be referring to the memory foam so it’s possible that they are written to only “look like” a single ingredient when in fact they aren’t.

Phoenix

Here are the tags on the mattress, which is a Classic 8:

And here is the tag on the Comfort Pillow:

Hi shaxpere,

Thanks for posting the pictures … I appreciate it.

The law labels you posted also don’t appear to comply with US uniform law label regulations either partly because they are listing a material that isn’t approved for use on a law label and partly because they don’t list the percentage of the filling material by weight

Phoenix

Yeah, I saw the discussion about the Opus Energie law tag in another thread. I had wondered about that when I first saw them. Both the mattress and pillow are purportedly a combination of Dunlop latex and memory foam.

Hi shaxpere,

Your law tags appear to be describing the Baby Jeanius IQ crib mattress which uses .5" of their so called “natural latex memory foam” with a compressed layer of organic cotton underneath it rather than the Classic 8 which uses 2" of the so called “natural latex memory foam” and a 6" zoned natural Dunlop latex support core underneath it. The first picture also says “this mattress is intended to be used without a foundation and only with the Leander crib”.

Very odd!

Phoenix

Huh, I was focused on the materials and didn’t even notice that. I wondered why cotton was listed in the filler. Very strange. Also, I just got an email from Essentia HQ answering direct questions about the percentage of latex in the memory foam, and whether they consider it organic:

Hi shaxpere,

If their latex core is GOLS certified organic then they should be able to show you the GOLS certification.

From their site:

Assuming that they are only referring to Talalay latex here (because GIOLS certified Dunlop latex certainly esxists) … while it’s true that there currently isn’t any organic certified Talalay latex there is certainly 100% natural Talalay that would meet the 95% natural rubber criteria that would be required for an organic certification if they were using USDA organic certified field latex to make it. The primary reason that Talalay manufacturers don’t produce GOLS certified Talalay latex isn’t because they couldn’t but because of supply issues and transportation issues. Unlike many Dunlop manufacturers, Talalay latex isn’t manufactured close to the plantations that produce the latex (the two manufacturers that make it are in Holland and the USA) and any organic raw field latex and any organic finished latex cores can’t be be included on the same shipment or made in the same factory as other types or blends of latex because of “cross contamination” which would be impractical.

Phoenix

Hello,

I found this website after I had already purchased a myessentia mattress back in 2012. I had purchased their softest model first and returned it because there was no support at all. The classic 8 was ok at first but I feel again that there isn’t any support. I also experienced lower back and hip pain. I like the softness of the top layer because I need pressure relief but am tired of the memory foam feel. I purchased a loom and leaf relaxed firm and loved it at first but have returned it because some days it would get so soft my hips would dip too far in (and mind you I only weigh 130 and am 5ft4) and I would feel a hard layer that would cause a lot of pressure in my hip. Now I’m thinking, after reading virtually all the content on this website (I just thought of this site again recently and that’s what helped me make the decision to return the loom and leaf, because it does indeed have a weak link) could I do something to the myessentia mattress to salvage it? The latex side of it is said by the company to be a medium firm (I contacted them but they won’t disclose the ILD nor the density of the base 6" of latex they used in 2012 to make it) so what could I add to this mattress to make it more supportive? Mind you it’s not supportive but also doesn’t provide enough pressure relief. I go numb very easily and need pressure relief cause of severe nerve pains. Would a wool topper and a firmer layer of latex underneath the myessentia do the trick? If so, how many inches of wool on top and how many layers of wool is needed? (also is cuddlewe a good brand for wool toppers cause I find them to be more affordable and they offer returns on a used topper). Would a latex/wool combo topper be better? Would plain latex work to relieve the pressure and would a firmer layer on the bottom help to provide more support? How thick would that bottom layer need to be? Again, I don’t want that sinking in feeling of memory foam anymore it keeps me up at night but I love the pressure relieving properties of memory foam because it really does do the best job for me and my tendencies to go numb often throughout various parts of my body. Any suggestions or information would be so greatly appreciated!!! This mattress coat so much money I’d love to know if and how I can salvage it to sleep on it! By the way it has held up having been moved about the house a million times and slept on for 8 years it’s the same today as it was a few months after we got it so I think the latex used is good and sturdy and not finicky. Thanks for your input and time!

Hey alikigia,

Welcome to the TMU Forum :slight_smile: ! Good to hear you are finding the site helpful in your comfort layer research and thanks for your question.

Comfort layers consist of the upper few inches of a mattress and are primarily responsible for pressure relief, one of the main functions of all mattresses. The comfort layers also include any quilting layers used in the top most part of a mattress as they act together to give a mattress its pressure relieving qualities. This topic is discussed in detail in “Mattress comfort layers - Overview”, you may find the info on different materials and different constructions of interest.

There are different qualities or grades of memory foam and 5.0 lbs per cubic foot and higher is considered to be the highest quality, 4.0 - 4.9 is mid range, and 3.0 - 3.9 is lower quality (generally used for toppers or lower budget mattresses). Essentia is one of the only companies in North America that pours their own foams. Their web site describes their memory foam as “a natural memory foam made using hevea milk, the sap from a rubber tree, combined with other ingredients.” While we can’t be sure of the 2012 component formulation, the current Classic 8 mattress features 2" of their natural memory foam over a 6" “natural Hevea Latex Support Foam”, with the 2" memory foam comfort layer at 6.25 lbs per cubic feet, placing it in a high-grade quality construction. Higher grades are more durable and will keep their qualities for longer than lower grades but will not generally last as long as innersprings, latex foam, or natural fibers. Strangely enough, higher density memory foam can feel softer as it “melts” or softens with body heat than lower density memory foams which are often either too soft (“melt” too easily) or too firm (like a light styrofoam) depending on how they are made.

What is your experience with wool? As a natural fiber, it has a unique “feel” and properties; you may find it sleeps “warmer” or “cooler”, changing the sleep environment you currently have. You could try adding a wool topper, or any variety construction of toppers, keeping in mind that using a topper to correct comfort problems with an older bed is a short-term fix, IMO. Adding a layer of latex underneath the mattress would not solve the comfort layer problem you’re having and would possibly void the mattress warranty, the site is quite specific about the base set up of their products. When you reached out to myessentia, did they offer any thoughts or customer service support?

Thanks,
Sensei

Thank you so much for the thorough response, it is very helpful! You hit the nail on the head when you described that the higher the pounds of density the more ‘melt’ like feeling it has. I just discovered that today that this is what is bothering me so much about the comfort layer on the classic eight it’s got too much of the ‘melt’ for me and it doesn’t provide pressure relief because you feel that latex underneath quickly. It feels really good at first but within 30 minutes I start to get numbing sensations and I can’t reposition my hips in any way not to feel the numbness. So this really helped me figure out what the issue is with this mattress. Thanks so much!! I agree that the materials are high-quality although today I took the cover off to wash it and chunks of the latex around the edges looked like they were bitten off in various places at the edge of the mattress in the thin encasement that they have underneath the cover. Very strange. We moved a couple of times so maybe the way it was handled did that to the mattress, who knows. It may have been pulled on too much and pieces came off. Anyhow the company did finally say that the ILD of the Dunlop 6" base is 22. When I looked this up it says this is on the soft to mid support, although Dunlop is still more dense than Talalay so I’m not sure if I could really go by this ILD to tell me anything about it’s support. Would you say this ILD on this model is supportive enough for a 5ft3 130lb person? I think I just needed a firmer latex base with a four or 5 pound memory foam on top. Memory foam is the only thing I have experience with unfortunately. I do not have any experience with wool as a comfort layer. I wish there was a show room near me that I could try. If you know of any please let me know I’m in NYC. Like I mentioned in the previous post, cuddle we is the only company I found that will allow you to try it for 30 days and you can return it provided its stain free and no signs of wear and you pay for the shipping but I’m not sure if their topper is even a quality that I should get. They said it has three layers of wool batting they did not disclose if it’s pre-compressed but they did say that it starts off at 3 inches and will compress down to two. I see here the companies you all recommend have anywhere from 3-8 layers or pre-compressed batting. You mentioned in your response some thing that I would love some clarification on. You wrote that higher grades are more durable but will not last as long as latex foams inner springs or other natural fibers. Are you referring to higher grades of memory foam don’t last as long as latex comfort layers innersprings and other natural fibers? What type of latex foam would you recommend then that would feel more like four or 5 pound density memory foam? I also didn’t understand why you put innersprings in that sentence are you saying that inner springs on the bottom would just be more supportive than a latex core I think that’s what you’re trying to say I just wanted to clarify. So moving forward in your opinion do you think a hybrid mattress is the way to go with a wool layer on top of the latex comfort layer? I honestly never wanna go mattress shopping ever again after all of this but this website is extremely helpful and I’ve learned a lot I just want to get a good one now as I’m in my 40s and I don’t have time or energy to spend it on going crazy over a mattress and finding the best one or fighting with my existing one haha. Thank you so much for your thoughtful and thorough response I do greatly appreciate it it feels so good to know that there are people out there that are so knowledgeable and are so willing to disclose this valuable information thank you!!!

Hey alikigia,

Thanks so much for your kind words on The Mattress Underground and for your question.

Yes; Latex is available in a wide range of firmness levels, typically from 14 (super soft) to 44 ILD (super firm), and in different varieties (usually Dunlop or Talalay) and in natural or blended versions (as well as a less desirable completely synthetic version) which makes it possible to choose a support or comfort layer that is suitable for any set of sleeping conditions, body profile, weight distribution, and sleeping style, and using any layering method of mattress construction.

In the NYC area, you have many options for testing mattresses featuring natural materials, wool in particular in their comfort layers, as well as asking questions regarding your comfort preferences. You could test in department stores such as Macy’s or Bloomingdale’s. Mattress Firm is easily available, as are furniture stores. There are also several luxury mattress stores specializing in all natural materials and handmade constructions, such as Duxiana, Hästens and Savoir, not exactly everyday mattresses but perhaps interesting for comparing the feel of wool.

To clarify: I was speaking in terms of memory foam’s overall longevity as a component in mattress layers. In the case of your myessentia (to be clear, I have no experience with this manufacturer and am relying on specs from their web site), memory foam is not mentioned in the support layer, only in the comfort layer. While their 2" memory foam comfort layer is listed at 6.25 lbs per cubic feet/ a “high” grade quality, generally speaking memory foam is one of the lesser durable of other comfort layering materials in the long term. You can read more in this article, Five steps to your perfect mattress- Durability on a comparison of different types of mattress materials’ comfort and support properties.

That is a question that we will let our trusted members weigh in on, perhaps consumer subscribers too would have an opinion… :wink: . Feel free to share more updates on your research.

Cheers,
Sensei