New mattress help

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

OK, so I have been browsing this site for a bit and after considering an Icomfort or Tempurpedic I now have been re-thinking this. I found a local store with some different options, a recommendation from this site. I know there is no perfect manufacturer and its all about the layers, but its all just so much info. I do still need to spend some actual time on these mattresses and what not, but here are two of the mattresses I have seen a bit of and their breakdown. Are these well put together beds?

Therapedic EcoGel Memory Foam Blue Heaven

Cover: EcoGel stretch knit.

Quilt Padding Layers: 2" 5 lb. 15 IFD High-Support Open-Cell Memory Foam, DynaFlow Airlock System, 2" 4 lb. 12 IFD EcoGel Second Generation Gel Polymer Infused Memory Foam, 2" 24 ILD, 5.5 lb. Conform Talalay Latex, Non-Toxic Flame Retardant SafeGuard™ Fiber.

Interior Padding Layers: 1" 2.0 lb. 18 IFD Latex-Enhanced Support Layer.

Innerspring: Core: 6" Heavy Density 1.8 lb. Perfect Form Support Soy-Infused Core.

Foundation: Heavy-Duty High Profile Semi-Flex Technology Support Unit, Thick 6 Gauge Border Rod, Insulator-Pad.

Spring Counts - Twin: N/A Full: N/A Queen: N/A King: N/A

Mattress Thickness (Inches): 14"

Warranty: 25 Years (15 Years Full / 10 Years Prorated)

AND

Pure Touch Latex Natural Comfort Plush

Cover: Natural Cotton Stretch Knit.

Quilt Padding Layers: 1" Enhanced Plush Polyurethane Quilt Foam, 1-1/2" High Density Convoluted Foam and Non-Toxic Flame Retardant SafeGuard™ Fiber Quilted to Cover.

Interior Padding Layers: 1-1/2" High Density Convoluted Foam, 3" 24 ILD, 5.5 lb. Conform Talalay Latex.

Innerspring: Core: 4" Heavy Density 2.1 lb. Perfect Form Support Soy-Infused Core, 2" Heavy Density 1.9 lb. Perfect Form Support Soy-Infused Core, 1" High-Density Support Base Foam.

Foundation: Pure Touch Heavy Duty Wood Platform Foundation with 3x the Number of Cross Beams and an Extra Center Support. Due to the heavy weight of this foundation, we strongly recommend this be ordered with split boxes.

Spring Counts - Twin: N/A Full: N/A Queen: N/A King: N/A

Mattress Thickness (Inches): 13"

Warranty: 20 Years Full (20/20)

Thanks in advance for any help!

2

I don’t know the cost of the two mattresses so I can’t make a judgment as to their value but in general I’m pretty unimpressed just by looking at the specs.

Specifically, the core specs for the two mattresses seem pretty weak (poor quality/value). One has 1.8 lb support foam and the other 2.1lb. I would much prefer to see latex cores or at least HR foam 2.5lb or more. But that’s just a very cursory glance and the first thing I noticed.

As Phoenix points out cogently, mattress warranties are frequently worthless because of the way they are written and interpreted.

3

Hi slammers64,

Of course the price would have a lot to do with my choices but between the two I would definitely prefer the Blue Heaven. the Therapedic gel foam is better quality than many other alternatives IMO (it is infused as part of the cellular matrix rather than being particles that are added and can hasten the breakdown of the foam).

There is a video here done by Jeff Sheuer (who I respect and whose videos have done a lot to educate consumers) which outlines the layering of the Blue Heaven visually. Overall I think this would be one of the better choices in a gel memory foam mattress but of course the value would depend on the price. The feel of latex over memory foam can be very nice IMO and I personally prefer this to all memory foam comfort layers but this is always a matter of individual preference. While 1.8 lb polyfoam is not the highest density by far (as benjammin points out) … in the firmer support layers which do not break down as quickly as the comfort layers and in a mattress where there are already fairly thick comfort layers which don’t need as much “help” … it would certainly be a suitable density and there would be no obvious weak links in the mattress.

Overall this would be one of the better mainstream or larger brand mattresses of it’s type and would typically have better value than it’s larger brand competitors although in most cases I would also tend to look closely and compare any local factory direct manufacturers that may be near you.

Your second option has too many unknown polyfoam layers in the mix IMO. There appears to be 4" of polyfoam above the latex which is a lot … especially considering that the specs don’t list the density of the polyfoam. This would be the “weak link” of this mattress and if I was buying a mattress with a latex comfort layer … I would want to sleep on the latex itself rather than thick layers of polyfoam. A little polyfoam in the quilting for some extra softness or surface feel is fine because it won’t affect the overall feel of the mattress when it softens … but this is just too much and makes the latex almost secondary.

As you mentioned though … the real test is in lying on the mattresses and testing them for PPP (pressure relief, posture and alignment, and preferences). The layering information can help to exclude many options though (such as your second one) and it can also give you a way to make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses and to help you know if a mattress is really worth what it is selling for.

As benjammin also points out … mattress warranties are more of a marketing tool than consumer protection because they don’t protect against wear and tear of the mattress or against softening (which is the main reason why a mattress would become unsuitable for sleeping on) and have little to do with how long a mattress can be reasonably expected to last. The materials in a mattress are far more important than a warranty that has exclusions that make it’s practical value very low.

Phoenix

4

Thanks for the feedback guys. Phoenix- I did actually find both these beds at Jeff’s store! I saw in some previous posts you mention his place and he is right around the corner from me. That blue heaven is going for $1700 the other choice is just over $1000. Good value? Those two mattresses appear to be the only 2 he carries with some latex in them. There are some lower levels of the blue heaven line he carries but they do not include any latex in them. Both of these mattresses are from Therapedic.

5

So after some more searching on this site, I read about the Ultimate Dreams available on amazon. That deal of $599 for a queen seems to good to be true. Phoenix, how would the Ultimate Dreams compare to the Blue Heaven bed I mentioned above? With that $1700 price tag considered as well. Thanks for everything you do on this site, it is an awesome resource.

6

Hi stammerst4,

The Blue Heaven is one of the better values in the major brands and it has a good construction and also comes with a very good foundation. Of course how suitable it was for any particular person in terms of their needs and preferences would depend on the person but the value … particularly at the pricing that Jeff usually sells for … would represent better than average value.

The Ultimate Dreams is a very different type of mattress because it is a latex hybrid and a latex comfort layer is much different from memory foam. It does have unusually good value though. There is some degree of risk involved because it can’t be tested beforehand and there is no refunds but it also has the advantage that the firmness of the comfort layer can be chosen for each person and if you are familiar with the overall feel of latex then the risk would be much lower. It is more of a “promotional” offering which is being used to build a name on Amazon but as you know, I know the manufacturer and regard him highly (which is why I’m happy he is a member of this site and he uses high quality materials.

So while it may have better value in “terms” of price … the value of a mattress that is “perfect” for your needs and preferences and lets you sleep well every night is just as important a part of your final choice as the price itself.

In the end … these are the types of “choices” between “good and good” that are great to have although I know from personal experience that the choice between the “short list” can be as tough as getting to the short list in the first place.

Phoenix

7

Phoenix - Just wanted to provide an update and get some feedback. I was able to go into the store and try out the two beds above. Blue Heaven definitely not for me, I guess that helps eliminate anything with memory foam in it! I did try out the Therapedic Pure Touch Natural Comfort and I did like it. You did express some concern with some of the polyfoam over the latex, so I did find out some more. Here are those specs again.

Pure Touch Latex Natural Comfort Plush

Cover: Natural Cotton Stretch Knit.
Quilt Padding Layers: 1" Enhanced Plush Polyurethane Quilt Foam, 1-1/2" High Density Convoluted Foam and Non-Toxic Flame Retardant SafeGuard™ Fiber Quilted to Cover.

Interior Padding Layers: 1-1/2" High Density Convoluted Foam, 3" 24 ILD, 5.5 lb. Conform Talalay Latex.

Innerspring: Core: 4" Heavy Density 2.1 lb. Perfect Form Support Soy-Infused Core, 2" Heavy Density 1.9 lb. Perfect Form Support Soy-Infused Core, 1" High-Density Support Base Foam.

It turns out that the 1.5" HD foam in interior is actually below the Latex. I know in reading some things on this site, you really don’t like a lot of foam over the latex. Is the 2.5 in this one too much? It is 1.8 density. How will this hold up over time? Would this be a weak link? This mattress is going for $1000 queen with a solid wood well crafted foundation.

At this point I think I am down to this bed if you don’t have major concerns or the Ultimate Dreams, the concern there being the unknown of the feel of the mattress and the need to try and find a relatively inexpensive foundation to go with it. Thoughts?

8

Hi slamer64,

In a latex mattress, once you start going over an inch or so of polyfoam above the latex you begin to lose the feel of the latex and the feel of the polyfoam begins to increase. In addition to this … the layers closest to the top of a mattress are the ones that are compressed the most using less durable foam here will reduce the overall durability of the mattress because polyfoam will soften faster than latex.

On the other hand … polyfoam has a different feel which is less resilient and spreads weight over the surface of the body differently. Some people actually prefer a thin layer of polyfoam (or other softer material) above the latex to modify its feel and reduce what some people call a “pushback” feeling (which is actually a misnomer but it does describe the feeling of how a higher resilience material will spread more weight onto the recessed areas of the body that may not be as “used to” bearing slightly more weight). Some people much prefer the feel of being right on top of the latex (in the right firmness level for them) and some prefer the “modified” feel with a layer of polyfoam or other material on top.

Sometimes this top layer is firmer than the layers below it (a dominating layer) which gives a feeling of surface firmness on the top of the mattress with the pressure relieving layers just below. This will reduce the amount of sinking into the surface of the mattress. Other times the quilting layers or polyfoam layers above the latex are softer which will increase the feeling of softness and increase the amount of sinking into the mattress surface. Each of these leads to a different feel, performance characteristics, and pressure relieving qualities of the mattress.

In terms of durability … 1.8 lb polyfoam is getting into higher quality foams and would be appropriate in a mattress in this price range. If the polyfoam is firmer (compresses less) it would be more durable than a lower density polyfoam which was repeatedly compressed to a greater degree. Any foam can be appropriate as long as the price of the mattress reflects it. This polyfoam layer will be less durable than latex but more durable than the more typical 1.5 lb foam (or lower) that is often used … particularly in lower budget mattresses.

So in this case … you have 2.5" of polyfoam above the latex (which is fairly typical for Therapedic) which is used to modify the feel of the latex in various ways. This is more than I would normally prefer (around an inch or so is my preference because when this softens it has less effect on the overall performance and durability of the mattress) but at least the polyfoam they are using is in the beginning of the higher density range.

Overall … considering the price of the mattress … and considering that it includes a very high quality foundation that is built like a tank (see the picture here) … I would say it has good value even though it would not be my favorite layering scheme. I would also take into account that with the polyfoam layers on top … it will go through an initial break-in period of softening to some degree so if anything a little on the firm side may be worth considering.

Of course if you are considering this mattress it would be very important to make sure that it provides good pressure relief and alignment and that you like the overall feel of the mattress itself (preferences). Everything is a series of tradeoffs between price, performance, overall feel, and durability and while this does have materials on top that would not be my first choice … at least they are better quality than many alternatives and I also know that Jeff’s profit margins are also lower than most so this would improve the relative value even more.

The layers below the latex would not be a concern to me. I would pay special attention though to make sure your alignment is good, particularly if you sleep on your back or stomach, because there is a fair bit of softer foam in the upper part of the mattress. Jeff would be a good guide in terms of making sure that what you are considering would be suitable for your height, weight, and sleeping positions and I know that he would rather lose a sale than recommend something that wasn’t suitable for someone.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix