Hi Everyone,
I was hoping to gain from Phoenix’s insights as well as the experiences of other mattress seekers - here goes:
Our old super pillowtop mattress gave out a couple of months ago. This resulted in lots of issues for me (twice weekly chiropractor sessions, mostly for shoulder/neck, lower back, you name it), but husband had no problems. We went bed shopping, armed with information from this site and ended up buying a Nest Alexander in Medium - which is an all foam mattress with memory foam on top. The sales experience in store (the one in Albany, CA) was really good (I highly recommend).
The mattress didn’t work out for us. Husband especially was complaining about being unable to stay asleep, feeling stuck on the mattress, tingling hands etc. My hips were sore (a common problem for me when I feel the surface is too firm), and I slept hot. I tried placing a memory foam topper (Costco) on top. This helped me some, but didn’t do much for husband. Nest bedding sent us the Alexander topper (again, great customer service). I liked that topper better than the memory foam, though I still had some soreness and was also sleeping too hot. Husband remained in pain and unhappy. We ended up returning the mattress after trying out their other options in store but finding none that worked for both of us…
Now we have a mattress from Bay Bed in Santa Cruz (also a member of this site). It’s a medium coil with 3 layers of Talalay latex - husband has 2 layers of xsoft and one of soft, I have 2 xtrasoft and one firm, with a wool mattress cover.
The good news: Husband is pretty happy. Tingling in his hands remains, but other than that, he sleeps much better. For me, I am not there yet. I have played with changing my layers around (you can unzip the cover and rearrange everything, pretty neat), and I like the firm layer on top of the 2 xtrasoft layers. I have no hip pain and almost no sore lower back in this configuration, but my shoulders are as tight as they haven’t been in a long time. I tried switching the pillow - I’ve been sleeping on a shredded memory foam side sleeper pillow from Nest and stole husbands soft latex pillow from Bay Bed the other night - maybe a small improvement. I’m a side sleeper when I fall asleep and roll onto my back once asleep. If a mattress is too firm, I don’t roll on my back and wake up every few hours. If a mattress is too soft (I think), my lower back gets unhappy.
I suspect that my shoulders are sensitive to the resiliency of the latex, while my hips/lower back are well aligned, and I am wondering how to fine tune the mattress for my side from here (without messing up husband’s comfort level).:
Exchanging one of the latex layers - would love more suggestions on which firmness levels in what order.
2 Adding a wool topper, or another kind of topper to reduce the resiliency without messing up the lower back alignment. I do still have the Alexander topper, but I think it may be too thick and also sleeps a little hot for me (it’s a 3 inch or so foam topper).
Any thoughts or input would be appreciated!
thanks,
elke
I’m sorry to hear that your Alexander mattress didn’t work out as well as you hoped for but of course the good news is that they have a great return policy so you were able to try the mattress without any risk.
Congratulations on your new mattress
As you know you certainly made a great quality/value choice and I hope that you are able to find a layering combination that works well for you.
I don’t know how long you’ve been sleeping on your mattress but I would keep in mind that there will be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress (higher density materials like latex can take longer) and it can be surprising to many people how much their sleeping experience can change over the course of the first month or so. If your mattress is too firm then some of the suggestions in post #2 here may be helpful as well.
While it’s not possible to “diagnose” more complex mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.
There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing … at least to the degree that any symptoms are from your mattress rather than the result of any other circumstances or pre-existing issues you may have that may not be connected to a mattress.
I’m not sure that the resiliency (springiness) would be the issue since resiliency isn’t related to firmness and pressure relief and it’s possible that you may need a little bit of additional pressure relief under your shoulders. This could be the result of having a firm layer on top or it could be a pillow issue as well (possibly a thicker pillow to keep your head and neck in better alignment and to reduce pressure on your shoulders) although your own personal experience would be the only way to know for certain whether a specific layering combination will work for you or how and how much your “symptoms” change when you sleep on the new configuration.
Again though … I would wait for a couple of weeks at a minimum before making changes to your mattress. If after a few weeks you decide that you need to make changes I would also sleep on each new configuration for “long enough” that you are confident that your experience or any “symptoms” are a pattern rather than just an anomaly over the course of a day or two or is just the result of adjusting to the change itself.
Before exchanging layers I would probably try moving the firm layer down so that you have a softer layer on top of it which would “allow” your shoulders to sink in and could relieve pressure on your shoulders a little more.
If rearranging your current layers doesn’t work as well as you hope for then the next (or even the first) step I would take is a more detailed conversation with Bay Bed. They will have more experience than anyone else about the type of changes that would have the best chance of success based on your conversation and on the “averages” of their many customers over the years that have similar circumstances or “symptoms” to yours. Phone conversations are a much more effective source of guidance for more complex or nuanced issues than written communications that are much more “linear” (see post #4 here).
While wool would be less resilient than latex … I’m not so sure that resiliency is the issue.
There is more information about wool toppers and how they compare to various foam or latex toppers (at least in very general terms) in post #8 here and in posts #3 and #6 here and there are some additional comments about wool toppers and a list of some of the better sources I’m aware of in post #3 here.
There is also more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.
Since the only way to know for certain whether any specific topper will be a good match for you on top of a specific mattress will be based on your own personal experience … if you can’t test a mattress/topper combination in person and/or you aren’t confident that the mattress/topper combination will be a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP then a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.
thanks for the detailed reply, Phoenix!
I get that it’s best to wait and let your body adjust - but my body is pretty darn sore and to be honest, a really good night’s sleep hasn’t happened in a long time, so I feel a certain sense of urgency (and, I admit it, I was going to fiddle with the layers tonight. But husband’s already asleep so I’ve been foiled ).
Here is something that I’ve been wondering about and that I have not found a good answer to yet: For the past few years, we’ve been gone for the summers, subletting various places, and sleeping on all kinds of different mattressess for a a few weeks or months (in fact, my parents’ all foam bed was the reason I thought that’s what I needed to have - it was heaven from the first night I slept on it, but since it’s in a different country I couldn’t even find a translation for what “cold foam” means). Except for a couple of times where you could literally feel the springs in the mattress, I don’t recall any adjustment periods for all those different mattresses, and I mostly did fine with them. .
So how is it that this process of buying a new mattress is so painful? Is it because all those other mattresses were broken in already? Is it age? Years of sleeping on sub par mattresses?
If I was in your shoes I would probably rearrange the layers back to their original configuration (F/XS/XS) so that you have a softer sleeping surface and sleep on it that way for a couple of weeks (if possible) and then decide on any changes after that based on your experience.
Cold foam is a type of polyfoam that generates less heat when the chemicals are combined together to make the foam and is typically a higher quality material than conventional polyfoam.
It could be some or all of the above but the only way to know why you slept well on most of them would be by figuring out what the ones you slept well on had in common … particularly in terms of their firmness. Perhaps they were all firmer or softer than your current mattress but of course you would be in the best position to know … or at least guess based on your memory of each of them.
Hi! OP,
Thanks to buy the new mattress. Actually, thousands of mattress brands are available in the market but all of them are not so good. 1 years ago I also bough pillowtop mattress but few days later I threw it it on garbage. My husband was so anger on me. I did that for my back pain. Few days later bough another brand and still using it and feeling happy. You also did same. So, congrats on your new mattress. Have a plan to buy a new one for my kids. Which will be more comfortable for my kids? Do you know?
Yet I bough a soft mattress but few days later it turned into row. Kids felt unhappy, they told me to buy a new one. That’s why I’m here. Really I need kind suggestions.
Just an update: Mattress feeling much better now. I currently use xs/f/xs and while I still may fine tune more (I think i’d like to exchange one of the xsoft layers to medium but want to wait a while longer to be sure), this bed is so, so much better (for us) than the all foam bed we tried previously. It was true that it took a couple of days for my shoulders to adjust, and I had to take more stuffing out of the pillow (Easy breather side sleeper pillow with shredded memory foam from Nest) to make it work. Pillow isn’t 100% great (major face wrinkles most mornings as if I am sleeping smooshed into it), but all in all - so much better!
thanks for your insights!
