This site is very informative, so thanks phoenix. but it doesn’t help with my moderate OCD research condition that already exists!! I live very close to Shovlin in NJ (zip 07023) and from my limited reading and research already, they seem to be on point on my target mattress. I do think they may be out of my budget (shooting to be at or below $2000), I know my choice of finally going to king size may not be helping. While reading your user guide, I did have a question on something that was written, specifically:
“Never buy a mattress with more than around an inch or so of lower density polyfoam (less than 1.8 lbs or so in one sided or 1.5 lbs in two sided) or memory foam (less than 4.0 lbs or so) or unknown foam in the comfort layers”
i’m confused by the wording., you write never buy with MORE than an inch or so…(less then 1.8 lbs or so in one sided…) I’m assuming the 1.8 lbs would be total mass weight of all the polyfoam in the mattress. Does that assume all lower density foam weighs the same, and wouldnt a different size mattress result in different weights of the same height(say 1") of polyfoam. Just a bit confused, so if you can clarify that would be great.
Anywho, if the Shovlin is indeed out of my price range, which i think it is by quite a bit, any recommendations for places around Shovlin that I can lay on and test and bring a king latex around the $2000 or less price point?
I’m also intrigued by the IKEA Morgongava, but am a little reluctant to go test due the fact that its a Dunlop latex, and I’ve read thats a bit firm.
the specifics, mattress would be for a couple, 220 lb male with two bad lower discs and lots of stiffness in morning. 135 lb female with no back problems, but does …(insert wife complaint here!)!
thanks for all, thanks for the site.
Hi grandeson,
Welcome to the site … and I’m glad you found us 
The density of a polyfoam or memory foam material is expressed as its weight per unit volume and in North America the most common way of describing density is lbs per cubic foot (in Europe kg per cubic meter is more common). Mattresses that are larger sizes have a greater volume so they would weigh more overall even though the density of the materials are the same. Lead for example has a much higher density than feathers so it will weigh more with the same volume of material. With polyfoam and memory foam the density of the material is the most important factor that determines its durability because lower density polyfoams and memory foams are less durable and will soften and break down more quickly than higher density versions of the same material. When a manufacturer buys foam for their mattresses the density they specify when they order is one of the main criteria that also determines cost so higher density and more durable versions of a particular material tend to be more costly than lower density and less durable versions of the same material.
When you sleep on a mattress the upper layers of foam will compress and deflect more than the deeper layers partly because the comfort layers are usually made to be softer than the deeper transition and support layers of a mattress (and firmness/softness is also a factor in the durability of a material) and partly because they are closer to the sleeping surface and subject to direct compression without any layers above them absorbing some of the compression forces first. It’s this constant deflection of the foam materials in the upper layers of the mattress that softens and breaks down the foam and leads to the loss of comfort and support in the mattress. This will also happen more under the heavier parts of the body such as the hips/pelvis than the lighter parts of the body. This is why the quality/durability of the upper layers (the top 3" to 6" of the mattress) are especially important in the durability and useful life of the mattress as a whole.
If you are in a higher weight range then you will compress the foam layers that are closer to the top of the mattress more than someone that is in a lighter weight range so those that are in higher weight ranges generally need more durable materials (higher density) than those that are in lower weight ranges for a mattress to last about the same length of time. They would also compress the deeper layers more than someone who was lighter so the durability and density of the top 6" may become a more important factor than it would for those who are in lighter weight ranges (or children) where the durability of the top 3" or so may be the most important because they don’t compress the deeper layers as much.
A mattress is only as durable as its weakest link no matter how much higher quality/density materials it may contain. If there is only about an inch or so of lower quality and less durable materials in the top layers of a mattress that are subject to constant compression then the foam softening of that layer would have very little effect on the mattress “as a whole” but once you reach about 2" or more of lower quality materials in a mattress that are subject to constant compression and deflection then the foam softening of a thicker layer would have a bigger effect on the mattress as a whole and could lead to the premature loss of comfort and support and the need to replace the mattress too quickly relative to the price you paid. This is the reason for the caution about “no more than about an inch or so” of lower quality materials in the comfort layers of a mattress so that too much lower quality/density materials don’t become a “weak link” in the mattress. In an ideal world you want “more” of the good stuff and “less” of the bad stuff in a mattress.
There is also more about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #4 here and the posts it links to.
The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Monroe/Newark, NJ. region (subject to the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #7 here.
While the Morgongava may be a little on the firm side for many people I would keep in mind that Dunlop latex comes in a wide range of firmness levels that range from relatively soft to firm. Firmness itself is also relative to the person and a mattress that feels firm for some people can feel soft for others depending on their weight, their preferences, and what they are used to sleeping on and are using as a reference point for firmness/softness.
Phoenix
Got it. Thanks for explaining so intellectually yet easy enough to understand. Off to ikea first with the family today, then shovlin tomorrow. I have a hunch I’ll want something in the price if ikea, but with the specifics of shovlin. Hate to order blind online, ill keep you posted, thanks again.
Anyone wishing to chime in, please feel free.
Hi grandeson,
I’m looking forward to your feedback after your visits to Ikea and Shovlin (and any of the other options you may also decide to include in your research) and of course any other questions you may have along the way.
Phoenix
I wrote back last night, maybe I didn’t click submit. But in a nutshell, making the trip to Ikea on a saturday with a 3 year old and 11 month old was not the greatest idea, but let’s just say it wasn’t mine. There was tons of samples of every Mattress on display, with the exception of the morgongava. There was a lone twin size sample of that only. Believe it or not, felt too squishy to.my wife and I, and we liked the myrabaka slightly better. But with that one each sample was a bit different I’m sure resulting from breaking in and sampling. But makes me feel there may not be the durability there. Was going to try and hit shovlin today, but it looks like I won’t be able to do that as well. This unfortunately is going to be quite the challenge with having 2 little ones. Between finding the time and finding selections worth visiting, I feel my back might be stiff for a few months. Keep up the replies and suggestions all. Thanks
Hi grandeson,
The synthetic latex and the 2.2 lb polyfoam in the Myrbacka are both good quality materials and would normally be quite durable so as you mentioned the difference may be that some of them have broken in more than others. Once you are past the initial break in period of a mattress that uses good quality materials then any further changes are much slower and more gradual over time. It would probably be safe to assume that the softer of the samples you tested would be more indicative of it’s longer term “feel” and firmness. It’s also possible that they were each on different bases which could also make a noticeable difference in how they feel as well.
Phoenix
Ok, good to know, I’ll give them an honest not her attempt wit less distractions. I hate to be penny qise, dollar foolish ad the mattress is something that is of great importance, but it’s one of those non-sexy purchases. Sort of like when I had a huge tree overhanging my house cut down. $1500 and my family is safer for it, but the only thing that shows is fresh mulch in an area where they grounded the stump!!
Combined that with wanting to go to a king size and now having to buy new nice matching furniture, it’s going to be a big hit all aroound. I wish mattresses were not so subjective and we’re sold in a mostly reputable environment. It’s unfortunate to the consumer that so much shadiness is involved.
Hi grandeson,
I completely agree with you when it comes to much of the mainstream industry. While there are many knowledgeable, experienced, and transparent retailers and manufacturers across the country that will provide you with good guidance and reliable information about their mattresses and where the process of choosing a mattress can be much simpler … they are more difficult to find in all the advertising “noise” that is so common with most of the mainstream industry.
The knowledge, experience, and transparency of the retailer or manufacturer you deal with can often be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase.
Phoenix
Went to Shovlin today, extremely positive experience. Mentioned the mattressunderground and they were receptive and knew a bit about you, which was nice. Met the owner and a slaesman, both real nice. Really really liked the all latex and the hybrid mattress as well. All the latex confort levels felt great, tossed between medium and soft at the moment, but really did like th hybrid as well, not sure comfort level. Now I am not saying that it they arent worth every penny they are asking for, but it just might be more pennies than i can actually spend. After testing a Shovlin, made the Ikea mattresses feel like they were found on the side of the road, no comparison whatsoever. I just dont know if I can do it fiscally. And I would like to give them my business, a real genuine, customer service oriented place, with a terrific product. But, if I cant afford it, I don’t know what route I would go. Any suggestion appreciated, but definitely would like to say what a positive experience it was.
Hi grandeson,
Thanks for the feedback about your trip to Shovlin Mattress Factory. As you mentioned they certainly make some very good quality mattresses and are very experienced and knowledgeable and transparent about the mattresses they sell which is why I think highly of them and they are one of the members of the site.
As you mentioned if a mattress is outside of the budget range that you can comfortably afford then there is little you can do except and you would need to look at other options no matter how “comfortable”, how suitable, how durable, or what the “value” of a mattress may be.
While I can certainly help to narrow things down and help with “how” to choose and what to avoid … I don’t make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or materials because only you can feel what you feel on a mattress or decide on the types of mattresses and materials that you are most interested in trying and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to know which specific mattress design or combination of materials would be best for you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). What is “best” for you either in terms of a mattress or a manufacturer/retailer can be very different from what would be “best” for someone else.
Having said that … the better options or possibilities in your area that I’m aware of are listed in the Monroe/Newark list I linked in my previous reply and if you are also comfortable with an online purchase then the mattress shopping tutorial also includes a link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) that compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. Many of them also make latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex that have a range of different designs, options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices that that may also be well worth considering based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including price of course).
If you follow all the 5 steps in the tutorial post one at a time then you will have the best chance of success.
Phoenix
[quote]
The knowledge, experience, and transparency of the retailer or manufacturer you deal with can often be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase.
Phoenix[/quote]
+ 100!
Went back to shovlin today with the misses, again, great people, Ron the owner very cool, and easy to speak with. I’m going to try and see if I can splurge for one of their mattresses, and im leaning toward the nirvana. Truth be told, I really liked their hybrid, sweet dreams. 3" latex over coil, 12 gauge 368 coils, almost as much as the latex over poly, 6" over 6". I’m not sure which one wins the value, but the hybrid is only around 3 years old so no long term results are known. I think they said they haven’t had a single problem yet with the hybrid. said it would be very easy to remedy any problems, no charge. Believe it or not, I’m leaning toward the soft comfort level, which wife liked the most. Thoughts on the 6x6 vs the 3 over coil? The 6 latex was a 700 premium for a king.
Oh by the way, we both pretty much migrate to stomach sleepers by the morning. Again, shovlin spoke well of the mattress underground.
Hi grandeson,
None of their mattresses have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design so durability wouldn’t be a concern with either of them.
There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses. The choice between the innerspring/latex hybrid and the polyfoam/latex hybrid would really be a preference and budget choice not so much a “better/worse” choice. I would also make sure that you test both mattresses with both of you on the mattress for motion separation because the innerspring may transfer more motion than the all foam mattress which may be important to you.
Phoenix
Well, went ahead and ordered the best I could. King Shovlin Nirvana in soft with a low profile foundation. I really just liked the guys at shovlin and trusted this sites recommendation. Best part is I have no more money and no king sized bedroom set. So putting the new nirvana straight on the floor til Santa comes. Lol, ill keep you posted. THANK YOU
Hi grandeson,
You certainly made a high quality choice … and congratulations on your new mattress
I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Maybe Santa will pay you a surprise visit a little early!
Phoenix
So got my first night on my new Shovlin latex. Very comfy luxurious feel. We went for the soft feel, as we were deciding between the soft and medium. The plush was too soft, the firm and extra firm too firm. I was leaning toward the medium because I usually wind up on my stomach, but the combo of my wife liking the soft and Shovlin saying they’ve never had someone come back and go from soft to medium but have indeed had people go from medium to soft kind of made the decision easier. The latex is the same in the soft and medium, the under foam is slightly different though. Lets hope it works out. Definitely less stiff in the morning, still stiff but definitely less. Wish me luck. And thank you
Hi grandeson,
Thanks for the first night update … I appreciate it
I’m looking forward to any additional comments and feedback you have the chance to share as you go through the initial break in and adjustment period over the first few weeks on your new mattress.
Phoenix
Hey Phoenix,
Just an update with a follow up question as well. been about 9 months with my Shovlin Nirvana, truth be told, Ive grown fonder and fonder of the mattress. Its been an absolute pleasure to sleep on. I have been doing some reading lately as I am planning on getting my 4 year old a big boy mattress. One thing cam about while reading up, My mattress is directly on my bed frame. Its not slats, its more of what looks like a kings size piece of particle board (albeit 2 pieces). No room for a boxspring or foundation due to height and design of furniture. I have read from some that mattresses need to breath or they can become moldy. This does scare me a bit. Is it wise to drill some quarter size holes in the particle board Ive mentioned? Since its been some time, is it already to late? Took a look today real quick, doesnt seem anythings growing as of yet. Please let me know your thoughts, thanks so much.
Hi grandeson,
Thanks for taking the time to share an update … and it’s great to hear that your mattress is working out so well for you
You can see my comments about a solid support surface under a mattress in post #10 here. While it’s true that they can add some additional risk in terms of ventilation under the mattress … in most cases if there aren’t any additional risk factors they would be fine. As an example I have an adjustable bed with a solid surface platform under my mattress but I don’t have any other significant risk factors so I personally have no concerns about any mold or mildew issues.
Phoenix