new member

Hi

I am looking for a new bed with my wife, and like many I suspect, find the process a bit daunting. This is my 5th mattress as an adult and they all seem to last about 8-10 years before one of us finds it uncomfortable.

I have read your articles to start, and am not sure, to be honest, what I think. It seems a bit like I need to become a mattress expert, and I doubt I can, or have the desire to do so. Clearly, you know a ton of information, but I am not sure how that helps me. Perhaps I am too hard, as I guess your 5 steps are quite useful.

Let me see if you agree with this

  1. check out the bed for 10 minutes or more to find good top for pressure points
  2. check out support layers by having spouse take a look at spinal alignment
  3. see what materials to make sure they are not below average?

Adding to my confusion is the article you have, which others mentioned, that consumers seem to be very poor at picking a good mattress for them based on a visit at the store. I guess your points in the preceding paragraph are designed to addres this.

As to my specifics, my wife and I seem to like different things - she likes a less firm bed, and i lide a firmer one. Since she is much lighter, some of the beds I seemed to like, she found she “hit” the support layers and was uncomfortable. We both find we like pillow top but it seems like many find that is a recipe for disaster as the initial comfort can become unpleasant after a couple years of wear. Also I am not sure how many people are really side or stomach or bach sleepers - I wonder how much research has been done in this regard. I think I am a stomach sleeper, yet the wife says I am on my side when she wakes up. She is a side sleeper, she says, yet I see she is usually on her back. over 8 hours - who knows without a video!

I live in Los Angeles. So far leaning to Tempurapedic. Seems like Costco has one we like at a considerably reduced price than the regular retain price, unless of course it is not same bed (Cloud Supreme). I also discovered your recommendation, if that is the correct word, for FLexus, which I think we will visit. I am not sure Flexus has much variation however, aren’t they primarily latex . others in the LA area thatnearby

I guess my interest is getting a good quality recommendation for the materials and then it is up to me to find right PPP.

thanks much, Jeff

Hi zebo42,

[quote]Let me see if you agree with this

  1. check out the bed for 10 minutes or more to find good top for pressure points
  2. check out support layers by having spouse take a look at spinal alignment
  3. see what materials to make sure they are not below average?[/quote]

The tutorial post includes the testing guidelines I would suggest following (in step 4) to test a mattress for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Testing for pressure relief is easier because it’s more obvious when you spend some time on a mattress whether you are feeling any pressure points but testing for alignment is a little more difficult and generally involves a combination of visual cues and listening to what your body is telling you about any tension or stress you feel in your lower back in particular once you have spent enough time on a mattress for your muscles to completely “let go” and relax.

The quality guidelines I would suggest to make sure that there aren’t any weak links in a mattress are in post #4 here.

There is also more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can also help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses but making the best mattress choice really boils down to …

  1. Testing for suitability and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences)
  2. Checking to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering
  3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

In many cases the knowledge and experience of the retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with can be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase because they will already know what you would otherwise need to learn. Too little information can lead to some poor choices but too much information can also lead to information overwhelm or “paralysis by analysis” and can lead to some very poor choices as well which is why I suggest reading the information like you would a good book and not “studying” it like you would a school textbook because you really only need to know “just enough” to be able to know when you are talking with “mattress people” that have your legitimate best interests at heart and when you are talking with “marketing people” that are more interested in the “stories” they have learned and in selling you anything you are willing to buy than they are in helping you to make the most suitable, most durable, and “best value” choice.

Yes … this is mainly because so many people tend to choose a mattress based on more subjective considerations or based on the “showroom feel” of a mattress rather than more careful testing that is meant to be more predictive of their actual sleeping experience and can help identify what they really need rather than what they think they need.

The first part of post #2 here has some information that can be helpful for couples that have different needs and preferences for a mattress.

Most people are combination sleepers and spend time in several positions over the course of the night but most people appear to have a fairly close idea of their most common sleep positions (see here).

I’m not sure if you’ve seen this but the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Greater Los Angeles area are listed in post #2 here. Flexus would certainly be well worth considering because they have some great quality/value mattresses but as you mentioned they focus more on latex or two sided innerspring mattresses than they do on memory foam mattresses so if you are committed to memory foam then they may not be the best option.

You can also see my thoughts about buying from Costco in post #4 here.

The choice of materials is a preference choice not a “better/worse” choice and the only reliable way to now which types of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer is based on your own testing and personal experience. Regardless of which type of materials you tend to prefer though … I would make sure that there isn’t more than “about an inch or so” of lower quality materials or any obvious weak links in the mattress so that you don’t end up choosing a mattress that feels great and is a good match for you in terms of PPP in the showroom or when it is relatively new only to find that foam softening or breakdown leads to the loss of comfort and support much too quickly after a purchase and you need to replace the mattress much too quickly relative to the price you paid.

Phoenix

Thnaks much Phoenix, very helpful.

I wasn’t ver clear re Costco. We saw a Cloud Supreme King we liked at a retailer, though pricy as you have suggested. Costco seems to have the same thing, though I haven’t called to confirm. Considerably cheaper, so I wonder if it is special for Costco that is different. I have seen that before for Costco., but never with the same name brand like here.

I also wasn’t so clear re this - I guess my interest is getting a good quality recommendation for the materials and then it is up to me to find right PPP. What I meant was a manufacturer or retailer that you felt had good quality materials. For example, it turns out I am a couple miles from Bed in a Nestbedding and bedsetz which are next to each other. So I figured I would check them out this weekend and Flexus. What I meant to ask is whether you know enough about these companies to generally feel they have quality beds (excluding the 3 lb part about memory foam), apart from me needing to find our own PPP etc.

Lastly do you have a post on Bed in a Box, seems to do well in Consumer Reports.

thanks

Hi zebo42,

Tempurpedic is a price controlled mattress and they normally don’t allow any discounting but based on the picture the Cloud Supreme that is being sold at Costco is the old model that was replaced at the beginning of 2014 which means that it would have a different cover and a slightly different design and memory foam layers than the current model so it may not be an exact “match” to the Cloud Supreme that you tested in the store although it would be fairly similar.

The old model had 2" of the Tempur ES 4 lb memory foam over 2" of their Tempur 5.3 lb memory foam over two layers of convoluted polyfoam.

The new model has 1.2" of the Tempur ES 4 lb memory foam over 2.75" of the Tempur 5.3 lb memory foam over two slightly thicker layers of convoluted polyfoam.

The price is certainly in a more reasonable price range compared to the “regular” tempurpedic prices for their current models (it’s $1000 less than the current model in a king size) although it may still not be in the same “value” range as other very similar memory foam mattresses that are sold by other manufacturers that use similar quality/density materials so I still wouldn’t put it in the “best value” range even with the lower price.

I don’t make specific recommendations for materials (which is a preference choice not a “better/worse” choice) or specific manufacturers or mattresses because there are too many unknowns and variables and individual criteria involved. Outside of PPP … a mattresss is only as good as it’s construction and the quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label and most manufacturers make a range of mattress that use both lower quality and higher quality materials. My focus is on helping with “how” to choose and how to make more meaningful comparisons and to help the members here make sure that no matter what type of materials they prefer that the mattress they are considering uses good quality and durable versions of that material and that there are no weak links in the design relative to their body type and their budget range. I do recommend the members here “as a group” and the tutorial post also includes several links to some of the better online options I’m aware of but there are also many other manufacturers across the country that make good quality/value mattresses and are transparent about the quality of the materials they use so you can make good comparisons.

Again … the guidelines I would use regarding the quality/durability of the materials in a mattress are in post #4 here.

If the materials in any of their mattresses meet the quality guidelines I linked then they would be well worth considering (or at least comparing to some of the other options that are available to you) and if they don’t or you aren’t able to find out then I would pass them by. None of the mattresses that are sold by Flexus have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design.

You can see my comments about Bedinabox in post #2 here and I would tend to avoid their memory foam mattresses along with any other mattress that used more than “about an inch or so” of lower density memory foam in the 3 lb range in the comfort layers of the mattress.

You can also see some comments about Consumer reports mattress ratings and recommendations in post #2 here and in this topic. As you can see I (and most knowledgeable people in the industry) would consider them to be a unreliable source of guidance about purchasing a mattress.

Phoenix

Thanks again.

3 mre questions I suspect u have answered elsewhere

  1. what about the boxspring. various places, like Flexus, recommend their brand because their mattress is x, y or z. do you have a post as to how to determine if your boxspring and frame really need a replacement for 2-400$

  2. It seems like the best option for long term is to find a component bed that can have the top part replaced since the comfort layers are the ones that go first. of course, this doesn’t seem like anything any manufacturer or retailer would like! BUt is ther any downside.

  3. SOme personal things

I have had 3 or 4 mattresses, all innerspring mostly name brands _Posterpedic, beutyrest, none over maybe 1100, tho of course at least 8 - 30 years years ago. All last about 8-11 years til one of us is uncomfortable. Until then we don’t wake up uncomfortable from the bed. On the other hand, neither of us are morning people (tho that may have a lot to needing the morning coffee) and we don’t bound out of bed raring to go. Perhaps that is the bed, who knows?

Given this, I am wondering if it makes sense to spend much more than another 1000 for a mattress. If I find a mattress we like for PPP, and the materials aren’t horrible … in 8-11 years I will need to get another one. If I spring for a 2500 latex matress or more from Flexus or another place for a King, is it likely to last much longer or provide a better PPP or sleep experience. It is not entirely clear to me what I am getting (other than better materials design etc) that translate to better sleep/longevity.

thanks in advance

Hi zebo42,

There is more about the different types of support systems (usually a foundation or a platform bed rather than a box spring which are only suitable and used with a few types of mattresses) in post #1 here and there is more in post #2 here about using your current foundation or box spring.

You can read more about the pros and cons of component mattresses with zip covers vs “finished” mattress where the layers can’t be replaced in post #15 here and post #2 here.

[quote]3. SOme personal things

I have had 3 or 4 mattresses, all innerspring mostly name brands _Posterpedic, beutyrest, none over maybe 1100, tho of course at least 8 - 30 years years ago. All last about 8-11 years til one of us is uncomfortable. Until then we don’t wake up uncomfortable from the bed. On the other hand, neither of us are morning people (tho that may have a lot to needing the morning coffee) and we don’t bound out of bed raring to go. Perhaps that is the bed, who knows?

Given this, I am wondering if it makes sense to spend much more than another 1000 for a mattress. If I find a mattress we like for PPP, and the materials aren’t horrible … in 8-11 years I will need to get another one. If I spring for a 2500 latex matress or more from Flexus or another place for a King, is it likely to last much longer or provide a better PPP or sleep experience. It is not entirely clear to me what I am getting (other than better materials design etc) that translate to better sleep/longevity.[/quote]

This is one of those questions that can only be answered with “it depends”.

The biggest reasons to spend more on a mattress are the two reasons you already identified which are …

  1. Better sleep and your ability to reach the deeper stages of sleep which in turn can have a significant effect on how well your body (and mind) rest, recover, and heal from the stresses of the day (or even illness) and on how you feel and perform during the day (mentally and physically).

  2. The durability of the mattress materials which will have the biggest effect on how long you sleep well on a mattress before the softening and breakdown of the materials results in the gradual (or more rapid in the case of lower quality materials) loss of comfort and support that leads to crossing the thresholds between sleeping well to just sleeping “OK” to tolerating a mattress and then finally deciding to replace it. There is a significant difference between “sleeping well” and “sleeping OK” in terms of how well your body can rest, heal, and recover. The reality is that higher quality and higher performance materials cost more.

Having said that … if for you there would be no significant benefits to a more costly mattress that would result in improved sleep or a more durable mattress with a longer useful life then there would be little benefit to spending more. The challenge is that predicting how well you will sleep on a mattress can be difficult to quantify. There is more about an “ideal” mattress in post #4 here.

It’s always more realistic to think of about 10 years as a maximum reasonable expectation for any mattress no matter what the quality of the materials and then treat any additional time after that as “bonus time” because after about 10 years the limiting factor in the useful life of a mattress will often be the changing needs and preferences of the person sleeping on the mattress and even if a mattress is still in good condition after a decade … a mattress that was suitable for someone 10 years earlier may not be the best “match” any longer.

Having said that … with higher quality materials throughout a mattress and/or for people whose needs and preferences or physical condition or body type hasn’t changed much over 10 years then “bonus time” or even “extended bonus time” with higher quality/density materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam or natural fibers is much more likely than with less durable materials and with the most durable mattress constructions and materials it wouldn’t be uncommon for someone to sleep “well enough” on a mattress for 20 years before needing to replace it.

Phoenix

thanks much again, will let u know what we find re the retailers I mentioned after the visit.

looked more at your posts, and am curious if you still like Sleep EZ and
Brooklynbedding and dreamfoambedding.com (also Dreamfoam Bedding Amazon Store).

sleep ez, seems very comparable to Flexus

also wondered about merits of 10 v 13-inch latex of Flexus and SleepEZ. just a little more support?

Hi zebo42,

[quote]looked more at your posts, and curious if you still like Sleep EZ and
brooklynbedding and Dreamfoam Bedding (also Dreamfoam Bedding Amazon Store).[/quote]

Yes … SleepEZ is a Trusted Member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.
While Dreamfoam and Brooklyn Bedding are no longer members they provide some quality products with good customer service.

Yes … their component mattresses have similar designs.

There is more about the pros and cons of thicker mattresses and/or more layers in post #14 here.

Phoenix

there are some very inexpensive dreamfoam or BB ones, which caugth my eye I haven’t really studied them, fyi, I noted a number of sites that commented to this effect

“But recently the material quality has been changed. At present they are using the density of about 1.5lbs instead of 2.35lbs. These days the materials are manufactured with the utmost quality durable comprising of 3”. The company is also popular in customizing all the mattress which has been made to the level of firmness which fits your request. It keeps cool during the sleep. It is one of the fastest response foam.
http://mattressreviewsbest.com/dreamfoam-mattress-ultimate-dreams-latex-mattress/

On the other hand, some of the cheaper ones are all Dunlap latex, which i gather is pretty good, tho not as good as Talalay. Hard to assess the UD Freedom with 11’’ v the 10 or 13 Flexus that is twice is much $.

thanks Mike

Hi zebo42,

[quote]“But recently the material quality has been changed. At present they are using the density of about 1.5lbs instead of 2.35lbs. These days the materials are manufactured with the utmost quality durable comprising of 3”. The company is also popular in customizing all the mattress which has been made to the level of firmness which fits your request. It keeps cool during the sleep. It is one of the fastest response foam.
mattressreviewsbest.com/dreamfoam-mattre...eams-latex-mattress/[/quote]

The change was actually a long time ago and it’s not “recent” at all but you can see some comments about it in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

They are certainly among the best quality/value mattresses that are available in their price range.

Phoenix

Thanks much.

You certainly hav e an unbelievably amount of info on your site, I am now enjoying it!. When I first went hear, I was overwhelmed, and almost skipped it, ut now it is fun to learn

I did poke around some other sites, and found the Old Bed guy site. He seems to be in love with Charles ROgers, not sure why entirely. So I looked here on the forum, and and got your views on them and him, no need to provide.

I would be interested in one of his observations, and your thoughts.
he says "The marketplace is filling up with confusing foam mattress ads riding on the popularity of the innerspring hybrid. These “so called” hybrids have the requisite comfort padding on top, but in place of the support and the durable springy comfort of a coil spring, firmer foams provide what support there may be. I have tried to like the idea, because in theory, it could lower the cost without lowering the benefits. However, there is nothing like a spring, to do the work of a spring. …
• Buy an innerspring mattress. University laboratory tests have confirmed that innerspring mattresses are, on average, 28% cooler than common solid synthetic foam, even cooler when compared with memory foam. My experience is that more people are happier on a good innerspring than even the finest solid or layered foams. University Proof of Cooler Innerspring Test ’

Next, i noticed a lot of the Charles Rogers bed seemed to show a foundation bed (wood of some type) and a mattress, seeimingly without a boxpring. I have always had a metal frame, no doubt $40, and boxspring - does th platform replcae this so yo don’t need a boxspring.
Lastly, do you have a post re top parts - cotton, wool, bamboo??

I will visit FLexus this weekend, so I guess this all is really wondering

  1. flexus is all latex, so wnat about an innerspring with latex top instead
  2. platform instead of box springs
  3. cotton or bamboo etc.

Hi zebo42,

[quote]I did poke around some other sites, and found the Old Bed guy site. He seems to be in love with Charles ROgers, not sure why entirely. So I looked here on the forum, and and got your views on them and him, no need to provide.

I would be interested in one of his observations, and your thoughts.
he says "The marketplace is filling up with confusing foam mattress ads riding on the popularity of the innerspring hybrid. These “so called” hybrids have the requisite comfort padding on top, but in place of the support and the durable springy comfort of a coil spring, firmer foams provide what support there may be. I have tried to like the idea, because in theory, it could lower the cost without lowering the benefits. However, there is nothing like a spring, to do the work of a spring. …
• Buy an innerspring mattress. University laboratory tests have confirmed that innerspring mattresses are, on average, 28% cooler than common solid synthetic foam, even cooler when compared with memory foam. My experience is that more people are happier on a good innerspring than even the finest solid or layered foams. University Proof of Cooler Innerspring Test '[/quote]

You can see my thoughts about some of the misleading or even deceptive information on the Old Bed Guy website in this topic which will also explain why he promotes them so heavily.

I think that these types of “broad brush” comments or recommendations can often be more misleading than they are helpful and I personally treat the choice of materials or components in a mattress as a preference choice rather than a “better/worse” choice. There are many different types of innersprings that each have very different properties (see this article and post #10 here) and the type of materials and layers that are used on top of an innerspring and the specific design and layering of a mattress can also have a major effect on the feel and response of any particular mattress regardless of what it uses as a support core. These types of recommendations would be somewhat like recommending that everyone wear a suit and tie to work or that everyone should buy a pair of leather oxford shoes rather than making choices that they prefer or that are suitable for their own specific circumstances and preferences.

Materials like good quality polyfoam and latex foam in a suitable firmness level can certainly make a very suitable mattress for a particular person that can be just as “supportive” and “comfortable” and durable as any particular innerspring mattress for people who prefer them.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” and why some mattresses are suitable for some people but not for others that have a different body type, sleeping position, or preferences or sensitivities.

While it’s true that there are more people that are used to an innerspring mattress than other types of mattresses and they are still the largest single segment of the industry … this is also changing and the growing popularity of foam mattresses (latex foam, polyfoam, and memory foam) speaks for itself and they can certainly make a great choice for those that prefer the specific properties of certain foam mattresses vs an innerspring mattress of some type.

In terms of temperature regulation … it’s certainly true that innerspring are more breathable than any foam materials but it’s also true that the layers of a mattress that are closer to the surface will have a bigger effect on the sleeping temperature of a mattress than the deeper support materials or components so if you have an innerspring matttress that uses thicker layers of memory foam as the comfort layers then it may sleep much warmer for someone than a mattress that has a polyfoam support core and more breathable and temperature regulating materials in the comfort layers and the cover and quilting. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress in post #2 here.

There is more about the different types of support systems that are generally most suitable for different types of mattresses in the foundation post here and the posts it links to (in the second paragraph). A platform bed that has a support surface that is suitable for a particular mattress and that is designed to support a mattress directly wouldn’t need a foundation since it would already provide suitable support for the mattress without it. A metal bedframe or a wooden bedframe that only has a few slats or cross members that wouldn’t be supportive enough for a mattress (the mattress would sag right through the spaces in the bedframe) would need a foundation on top of them to provide suitable support for a mattress.

There is more about quilting materials in this article and there is more about quilted mattress covers (including wool quilted covers) vs stretch knit covers in post #12 here and the posts it links to. There is also more about the the pros and cons of different types of fabrics used in mattress ticking (covers) in this article and in post #7 here and the posts it links to as well (which is more about sheets and bedding but the comments about the different types of fabrics would apply to mattress ticking materials as well).

There is more about all latex mattresses vs latex/innerspring hybrids in post #13 here and the posts it links to but again this would be a preference choice more than a “better/worse” choice…

Phoenix

Thought I’d report back on a couple places he went today – Flexus and dreamland a couple miles apart in Covina.

both of them were great places up but it’s not entirely fair to compare them given the price differential between the two. We first went to flexus I which has a very small a show room with about six of beds in itincluding a double-sided bed and a couple of all latex beds.
My wife more or less a fell in love with the 13 inch all latex a bed which had 3 3 inch medium layers and a soft Talalay top layer. The other half of the bed I had 2tfirm layers with a medium layer on top and then also the soft Talalay layer that I liked quite a bit, Both were very luxurious and being able to combine two different firmness levels is fantastic for those with different firmness interests. I also like that I could quickly switch the firm and medium a layer on my side to make it a bit firmer and the whole process took about five minutes

We also tried a 10 inch bed and both of us were surprised at how different it felt. Even though the layers up for the same firmness, the absence of one additional layer makes quite a difference and a 10 inch is a much firmer all the way around.

Interestingly my wife consistently seems to sink through some of the beds with a different types of comfort versus support. since she is much lighter than me the only rational explanation that anyone had is that she doesn’t really sink into the support level like I do and that it feels a quite a firm out to her. as a result she really didn’t like a number of beds that I was okay with

We then went and saw Bruce the owner of a dreamland who is only a couple of miles away. Most of the beds that we looked at a there were spinal bedding company mattresses that he said was now a Serta company. Most of them were individual coil bottoms with with different toppings as such as memory foam or latex, and some with all layers of both along with gel layer. He was a very helpful and knowledgeable but I don’t think either of us liked the beds a quite as much as the all latex up bed. However, they were a very nice beds in all respects and were only about half the price of the 13 inch a latex bed at flexes

We will try couple places are nearby tomorrow and then I’ll probably decide what to get

Hi zebo42,

Thanks for the update … and it’s good to see you are looking at some good options.

This is a fairly common phenomenon because the same materials will often feel firmer to someone that is lighter than they will to someone that is heavier. It can also be a result of different weight distribution and different body shapes or sleeping positions or even a different sensitivities to pressure. There is more in the first part of post #2 here about accommodating a couple that have different needs and preferences.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

O, I saw this post of yours, and am a bit confused

It seems Bruce has the same mattresses as the good Spinal Care (for example, Cloud, Monet etc) yet he said it was a Serta company, or used to be? (note that Kenzo makes the same comment ) seems like above that is the bad spinal care?

I did suggest my wife try firm, Medium medium with soft Talaly if we go back, to see how different it is, since that would giv eoptions down the road.

Hi all,

I am new to TheMattressunderGround forum and researching on some mattress for the side sleepers to know the issues of their back-pain. Wish a lot of information I will get from here.

Thanks,
Rodger Trivett

Hi zebo42,

I saw your previous comment that Spinal Care was now a Serta company and it was confusing to me as well. On the Dreamland blog here they say that they are carrying Spinal Care and they are an independent family owned manufacturer and when I last talked with Spinal Care in Gardena they confirmed they were still an independent company as well (and were having some real issues with the “other” Spinal Care). I also noticed that the “other” Spinal Care no longer has a website (you can see that all of their websites listed at the BBB here are gone).

In the end all that really matters is that you can confirm the type and quality of the materials in any mattress you buy so you can make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses based on the quality/durability of the materials inside them which is always more important than the name of the manufacturer on the label but I plan to call both Dreamland to confirm what they are now carrying and Spinal Care Bedding to ask them if they are still an independent manufacturer when they are both open.

Phoenix

Hi RodgetTrivett,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

I switched your post from the topic you originally posted in to a more general topic.

The first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to know how to make the best possible choice … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Phoenix

I am pretty sure it is the good company that Bruce carries and perhaps he is confused about there being two of them.

For those nearby, we did like Dreamland and suggest a visit, he is very helpful. ONe thing he stresses as a selling point is that Spinal Care has a 20 year non prorated warrenty on all its beds, even the one that are dirt cheap, like 600 for a king. He also says he is very unusual by dealing with teh warrenties himself if there is a problem. He says most if not all retailers will have you call the manufacturer directly if you have a claim, but he will do it himself, and go and eyeball your mattress for you. He claims this is much more likely to get you a new mattress since they will more likely accomodate him since he buys a lot from them, while you of course have bought one mattress and they may not care what you think.

NOt sure if this all is accurate, but thought I would mention it. since we like Flexus more, even tho much more expensive, it doens’t matter to us.