Hi ineedmoresleep,
That would be a good idea. A good rule of thumb would be that about 50% of the support surface is solid and that any gaps aren’t more than 3" (and preferably less). The bending strength of the wood would also make a difference with stiffer and stronger wood being preferable (see post #454 here).
Phoenix
Ordered yesterday. Shipped yesterday. UPS shows it is supposed to be delivered tomorrow (SoCal). Wow!
Hi ineedmoresleep,
That was sure fast … and it won’t be long now till you can try it out 
Thanks for the update.
Phoenix
The mattress was delivered today. Two days from order to delivery. Cant beat that. It came in 4, 60 lb boxes. Everything was packaged very well.
1st order of business was removing the old mattress. As I stated earlier, the old mattress was a bunch of memory foam over innerspring so it was pretty heavy. I have hated that mattress for a while so I took the opportunity to disassemble it (hack it up) to make it easier to get downstairs. When hacking it up, I found the reason why the “luxury” mattress failed so quickly. It was primarily made of cheap polyfoam. In the attached picture you can see the layering from top to bottom:
3/4" of polyfill
1 layer of 1" polyfoam
1/2" layer polyfoam, just for fun
2" of memory foam
2x 1" layers of convoluted “eggcrate” polyfoam
another 1/2" layer of polyfoam
the innerspring portion (individually pocketed coils with a polyfoam border wrapped with 1/2" polyfoam top and bottom)
Now keep in mind, this was a $2000 mattress
After the old mattress was removed, the next step was to beef up the slats. Originally, the bed had 1x3s with a spacing of 4.5". I added 1x2s between each of the original slats to add support but leave enough breathing space. I also beefed up the center support and added another leg to the middle for a total of 5. In the picture with the added slats, it appears that the spacing is uneven because some of the new slats were bowed up. They will rest flat after the mattress is on top.
Hi ineedmoresleep,
Unfortunately this is much too common in the mainstream industry … and given the quality and durability of the materials inside it’s not surprising at all that the mattress lost its comfort and/or support much too quickly.
Your “rebuilt” foundation certainly looks much stronger and would be much more suitable for your mattress than it was before
Thanks for adding the pictures of your old mattress and your “new” foundation…
Phoenix
Next step was carrying 240 pounds of bed upstairs and unpacking it. I think I removed around a hundred staples and took off a hundred yards of tape. As I said before, excellent packing job. Setting up the bed was uneventful. I went with the standard S/M/F/XF layering to start with. I do have a few tips/comments about assembly:
Pictures show:
The new mattress is together. I don’t have the new St. Dormeir protector to put on yet (arrives tomorrow) so we just used our older polyfill stuffed cotton/poly blend protector when we were putting the linens on. My wife and I both think the feel of the bed is really nice. I can feel a little hammocking from the wool mattress cover, polyfill protector, and sheets. I imagine it will get better as things break in hopefully when we change to the new St. Dormeir.
I tried laying on my back, side, and stomach. The mattress felt pretty nice for back and side. Decent support with no felt pressure points. Stomach sleeping I could feel the softness causing my pelvis to sink in a bit. I don’t sleep on my stomach much so this shouldn’t be an issue.
One thing regarding, uh, night time activities 
I think the new mattress is going to work out well. The last mattress being memory foam didn’t add much to the experience. I think the springiness of the latex will be a welcome feature :woohoo: :whistle:
The shredded latex pillows were a really nice surprise. i think after I remove 25 - 35% of the filling they will be awesome. They come overstuffed so that you can adjust them to your liking.
Overall, we are very excited about our purchase and with SleepEZ. I will update this thread periodically with out thoughts.
About an hour after everything was set up and cleaned up, I layed back down to give it another test. It was almost lights out for me. Looking forward to tonight.
1st night sleep review
Me: I am comfortable on my back for around 15-20 minutes. Then my mid-back starts to ache a bit. I have never experienced this before. It seems like my hips are either sinking in too much or not enough. I know that seems like a really weird thing to say but I cant figure out which it is. On my side (which is more like a hybrid side/stomach position) I am pretty comfortable. I woke up feeling pretty good though and generally better aligned than in the past so I have that going for me.
Wife; Generally thought the bed was too firm. Was OK on her back but was hoping for something more cloudlike. Said it was too firm for her side. Hopefully, the bed will break in for her.
We are going to give it a few days before we change anything.
Hi ineedmoresleep,
Thanks for the initial update.
There will be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the foam layers lose any of their “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress.
It can be quite surprising to some people how much their sleeping experience can change over the first few weeks of sleeping on a new mattress and if possible I would tend to give any new mattress at least a couple of weeks before doing any “fine tuning” by rearranging or exchanging layers.
Phoenix
An update and a request for some advise.
After a few weeks with the 13000 in the S-M-F-XF my wife and I felt like the standard mattress cover that was included with the bed was causing too much of a trampoline effect and not allowing the latex to conform to out bodies enough. This was both with and without the St. Dormeir protector on the bed. I ordered the 4-way stretch cotton cover from SleepEZ. That seemed to solve the trampoline issue for both of us.
Now, almost 2 months in, I think the comfort of the bed is now pretty good. My wife, an occasional side sleeper, complains of occasional hip or shoulder pain when she sleeps on her side and would also like a more “cloudlike” experience in the bed. I think I can solve her comfort issue by swapping over one of my soft layers for her medium to try out for a couple of nights. I also think that a mattress protector/topper with some polyfill or polyfoam in it might giver her a more cloudlike experience. But generally, we are both ok (not in love) with the level of comfort of the bed.
Our biggest problem right now is the liveliness or jiggliness of the bed. We dont have any problems with slow speed motion transfer (like from slowly rolling on the bed). We are having problems with some “faster” motions (like from smacking the top of the bed like a drum). We are constantly waking each other up and I actually think that it sometimes cause me to wake myself up. We really cant sleep together on the bed right now. I have moved everything to the floor to make sure the foundation was not causing the issue. I have also made sure that the protector and sheets aren’t on really tight. I think that the livelines of the latex is what is causing us grief.
The liveliness issue has been brought up by several other member here:
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-deaden-a-lively-latex-mattress
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/all-latex-bed-motion-partner-disturbance
I called Jeremy at SleepEZ and described my problem. He told me that he had never had anyone complain about that sort of thing before and didn’t have any suggestions until I started asking him about adding memory foam to the mix. He said that he thought it was worth a shot and that they were building beds with memory foam/latex combos.
So, now some questions. I now how a 12" towering stack of jiggly latex that I am trying to calm down. Am I just going to be fighting this the whole time since I have 4 layers of 3" (relatively expensive) Talalay? Would I be better off starting over? Jeremey at SleepEZ offered to get the RMA process started (great customer service). Any suggestions on what to do? I dont mind spending extra money on a memory foam (or other) topper to make the bed feel the way we want it but I dont really want to spend money covering up a problem that I created by purchasing the wrong bed for us.
When I started this “project”, one of the goals was to get away from the traditional disposable mattress. I dont mind replacing a comfort layer every few years as long as I dont have to scrap the whole bed. I would really like to figure this out, even if it means starting with a different base that the SleepEZ that I originally purchased.
Hi ineedmoresleep,
Thanks for the update.
Outside of the two topics you linked and have already read … post #4 here may also be worth reading as well.
If you are one of those that is more sensitive to the resilience or “vibrations” of latex … then as long as you have ruled out any other causes for your experience (such as making sure that you have a suitable support system that has little to no flex and would be similar to the floor or making sure that the cover, protector, and your sheets and bedding aren’t too tight and causing a “trampoline” effect) which it sounds like you have then outside of returning the mattress it may be worth trying either a fiberbed something like this or like this (which may also provide some of the “feel” that your wife seems to like and some localized relief for pressure points), exchanging your top layer with memory foam (which has higher hysteresis and absorbs energy unlike latex which is much more resilient) or adding a relatively thin memory foam topper to your mattress. Replacing the top layer with memory foam or adding a memory foam topper would probably be the most effective solution for reducing or eliminating the transfer of the “sharp” movements that you are describing…
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks for the quick reply. Funny you should link to those pads. I put the first one on my Amazon wish list early today to bookmark it
Given our sensitivity to the smaller, high frequency vibration, will I be fighting the 12" Talalay mattress the whole time. When I purchased it, I knew the bottom 3" wouldn’t really contribute much to the feel of the mattress but I didn’t think about the impact on motion isolation. Having a bit more experience now, it seems like we might have been better off with something like a HR polyfoam base, say 3", 6" of Talalay, and 3" or so of memory foam.
Or something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/LUCID-Plush-Memory-Latex-Mattress/dp/B0088YVEU0
Interestingly enough, motion isolation was one of the things that we paid attention to when we were shopping locally to determine if we liked latex. I think that larger, low frequency movements are pretty easy to evaluate in a store but the smaller, higher freq surface vibration is something that becomes much more apparent when you fully relax and are starting to drift off to sleep. Live and learn…
Hi ineedmoresleep,
[quote]When I purchased it, I knew the bottom 3" wouldn’t really contribute much to the feel of the mattress but I didn’t think about the impact on motion isolation. Having a bit more experience now, it seems like we might have been better off with something like a HR polyfoam base, say 3", 6" of Talalay, and 3" or so of memory foam.
Or something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/LUCID-Plush-Memory-Latex-Mattress/dp/B0088YVEU0[/quote]
The only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress would be a suitable “match” for you in terms of PPP (including motion isolation) would be based on your own personal experience although memory foam certainly “absorbs” more motion than any other foam material.
I would avoid the Lucid memory foam mattresses because they generally use lower density 3 lb memory foam which I would consider to be a weak link in the mattress.
The properties of the upper layers would most likely have a much larger effect on the type of higher frequency motion isolation you are referring to than the deeper layers which would respond more to larger slower movements.
Phoenix
I think I am going to try a memory foam topper in 2" or 3" with a thick mattress pad and see how that goes. Thanks.
Hi ineedmoresleep,
I would be cautious about adding too much in the way of thickness and softness in the top layers of a sleeping system especially on top of 3" of soft latex because it can be more risky in terms of maintaining good alignment over the course of the night. I would also consider adding only one component at a time so you can assess how it works on your mattress before adding another layer. I would also keep in mind that adding a thicker mattress pad on top of memory foam can reduce the amount of body heat that reaches it and reduce its ability to soften with your body heat and may firm up the memory foam compared to sleeping on it directly.
I’m looking forward to any updates you have the chance to share about how things work out for you.
Phoenix
Quick update. I went out and bought a 3" memory foam topper with cooling gel that I determined to be 3lb (not sure of the ILD) after weighing it. I realize that with the 3lb, durability might be an issue but that is all I could find locally and I wanted to try something new tonight. have not purchased a new new pad yet.
I put the 3" memory foam topper on top of the the 4 way stretch cover that enclosed 12" of Talalay (S-M-F-XF). The higher frequency motion transfer that we were feeling before was significantly reduced but was still noticeable. We didn’t feel like there was enough support with all of the soft layers on top though (good call Phoenix!).
Next, I removed the top 3" soft Talalay layer from inside of the mattress cover and replaced it with the memory foam. So now we are back to 12" total height with a stackup of:
3lb memory foam
med Talalay
firm Talalay
x-firm Talaly
all wrapped up in the 4 way knit stretch cover.
Now we are getting somewhere! The motion transfer was greatly reduced. I think the soft Talalay just transferred to much high frequency energy for us. When the soft was removed from the stack (and sat quivering in the corner of the bedroom) the bed seemed to be really well damped with the memory foam on top of the stack. The level of support seems to be reasonable for both of us as well.
I will update after we get a chance to sleep on it. Nighty night.
Hi ineedmoresleep,
That’s good news :).
I would sleep on any new configuration for a few days at least so that you have a chance to identify any clear patterns in your sleeping experience because your experience for just a single night or two can often be an anomaly or the result of your body adjusting to the change itself.
As you mentioned … I would also keep in mind that 3 lb memory foam may soften or break down faster than higher density memory foam so your initial experience may be different than your experience after the topper has broken in or after a few months of sleeping on it.
I believe that SleepEZ will also exchange a latex layer for a 5 lb memory foam layer (although I would check with them to make sure) so this may also be worth considering as well (although 5 lb memory foam will probably feel firmer than the 3 lb memory foam you are currently trying).
Sleep well!
Phoenix
2 day update with the memory foam replacing the soft layer of latex.
The memory foam has pretty much solved the motion issues that we were experiencing with the all latex mattress. We can still feel each other move but it has been greatly reduced.
I am feeling pretty good on the mattress. I have woken up each night once with one of my arms asleep but a slight change in position solves the problem. That might not be related to the mattress at all and just an effect of the the way I sleep. I feel more refreshed already though.
My wife has been sleeping better but both of her shoulders have been a little sore when she wakes up. She said that has been sleeping on her side.
We will sleep on it for another week and see how it goes before changing anything (if necessary).
Hi ineedmoresleep,
Thanks for the update
Phoenix