New sized mattress frame with angled HOB

Hi WebbyR,

It may be worth asking if you could replace the box spring with something else since you won’t need it with the platform bedframe (the bedframe replaces a box spring and can be used directly under a mattress).

Assuming you use the mattress directly on the platform you should be fine with any mattress shifting. If you use the box spring on the platform it may not be as stable and may move around or make some noise with the contact between the hard surfaces.

I don’t know the price you are paying but I would also be aware that if they are anything close to this you are in the price range of an all latex mattress rather than a latex/polyfoam hybrid.

Phoenix

Ha that’s where I was ordering. They are closed right now as far as contacting by phone. I am just going to order the half box spring since it’s free and their bed frame. I will contact them tomorrow to see if I can adjust the order to get anything else or price reduced since I can’t seem to get their $200 in bedding offer to work. I looked at the brooklyn bedding latex series and yes I realize the costs are equal to the all latex ones. I just have laid on these optimum ones for quite a while, and am pretty sure a latex/foam hybrid will be just fine with me. The top layer with the Opticool is really what sold me on it. I love it.

Thanks again; I’ll post any updates on my adventure.

Hi WebbyR,

Opticool is a tradename so it can refer to different materials (such as memory foam or latex) with outlast gel added to it but in this case it refers to the gel latex they use in the top layer. Basically it’s meant to infer “cooler sleep”. Latex is already a more breathable material and tends to sleep cooler than memory foam but the gel they (and some other latex manufacturers) add to their latex can add a little extra in terms of temperature regulation … particularly when you are first going to sleep.

Congratulations on your new mattress … and I’m looking forward to your updates when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Ok, I know Sealy isn’t the best at revealing the densitys/lbs of their material, but I have been using a memory foam topper on my innerspring mattress until I felt a new bed was in order.

Would one of these Talalay GL get infused “memory foam” latex toppers ( http://www.latexmattresscompany.com/gelmefomato.html ) help extend the durabilty of my new mattress? I already ordered a mattress protector pad and thought a thin 2" topper would be ideal in that I wouldn’t lose too much of the support from the bed and still be able to transfer heat away?

I would appreciate your thoughts as always.

Thanks

I read a thread about you and another researching this very product. Have you slept on it yet since 2012 ie. PLB model? Have you heard more positives than negatives?

If I am comfortable with the feel of the bed from the start ie. pad, sheets, without a topper, could I still get a topper to increase the longevity/durability of the bed underneath?

I was also looking at some 2" natural latex toppers.
Either way, would I need a covering for the topper if one is not included, if I decide to go that way, or can I just include it in the protective pad and be careful not to tear.

Hi WebbyR,

A topper can add to the durability of the layers below it yes but adding a topper will also make the comfort layers thicker and softer which could be risky in terms of alignment if your mattress is already a good match in terms of PPP. The top 4" of your mattress is already latex so it’s already a durable material so I would think the risk of a topper would outweigh its benefits.

A mattress pad (with padding in it) will change the feel of the mattress vs a mattress protector without any padding. If the mattress is already a good match for you I would go with a protector. You can see some of the pros and cons of the different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here. A 2" topper can have a significant effect on the feel and performance of the mattress and could also increase the sleeping temperature (you would be sinking into more soft foam which would be more insulating).

If you are comfortable with the mattress already I wouldn’t add a topper … especially to a mattress that already had latex in the top layers.

Phoenix

Just an update…Since us-mattress hadn’t processed my order yet, I was able to change everything. I went with the Brasswood series since it is reportedly more firm and has the Opticore HD, which I would like to try out. I also ordered a sleep master platform bed frame from Amazon instead of the boxspring and framing that I had previously ordered. I got a Protect a Bed Premium protector and two Sealy Embody latex pillows. I had a good week at work so said “what the hell” and with this way lol.

Hi WebbyR,

The Optimum Brasswood uses good quality materials and the Opticore plus is a higher quality support core than the regular Opticore so even though it is considerably more costly than other latex hybrids, if it’s the best match for your personal value equation then that’s the most important part of any mattress purchase.

Congratulations … again … on your new mattress and I hope you let us know how it works out for you when you have the chance to sleep on it.

Phoenix

Hi Guys. Just a quick update. I love the bed for sleeping on back but appears my weight distribution has changed a bit, and I don’t get proper spinal alignment if I sleep on the side. Heaviest parts of body: legs and shoulders with everything else in between normal. I had tried a memory foam topper that I had previously slept on and didn’t like it over the advantage of sleeping cold and perfect sleep on the back.

I am thinking of cutting a memory foam topper just to fit my shoulders and legs. Is this ill advised? Trying to get rid of that lower back pain. I was thinking two different pieces of 2" quality memory foam for hips area and for shoulders area as they are too big and I’d just secure those in with those linen draw strings things.

Thank you for your time.

ps if you need pictures of my setup I could find a way but it’s layers upon layers of stuff (literally takes me 3 hours to do the sheets) but totally awesome for acid reflux etc.

Hi WebbyR,

The heaviest part of the body is actually the lower part of your torso not your legs or shoulders.

Post #2 here has more information about the more common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress but lower back pain is most often a sign that either the mattress is too soft and the hips/pelvis area is sinking down too far or that the mattress is too firm and they aren’t sinking down enough to fill in the gaps under the more recessed parts of your body and the spine is sagging down to the mattress from a lack of support.

If your hips/pelvis area are sinking down too far then adding a topper under your legs and shoulders could make things worse since the middle of your body would be even lower relative to the rest of your body.

If your mattress is too firm then you may need some additional support under the recessed parts of your body (the waist or small of the back).

While only your own experience can confirm whether any idea will work for you in real life … I think that adding a topper under only the lower and upper parts of your body could be risky and could make the issues worse.

There is some information about zoning in post #11 here and post #2 here that may be helpful but I’m guessing (and it’s only a guess of course) that if you are going to explore zoning that it may be more helpful either under the middle third of your body or perhaps just under the recessed part of the spine to help keep it from sagging.

Phoenix

Latex mattress is very firm, body sinks just right on the back, but can’t go more than probably 3 inches with any weight as that second or third layer is super dense. As far as my weight distribution, hips/legs are huge due to cycling/work and shoulders can’t sink properly on side due to mattress too firm and shoulders too big. If I could keep my body on its back the whole night, I’d be fine. As it is, whenever I turn on side, shoulders get an awkward position, and lower body (hips down) somehow goes lower than torso even if I curl them up like baby. I could try to lose muscle mass but I don’t think that still affect/help shoulders as far as sides. Your thoughts on making a zoned topper (of if someone already makes one)? I’d rather add something to the top as lifting this bed in its current position is unideal.

my weights are 170-180lbs and body is more like 60/40 with the hips and lower body being the 60%. Runner back legs :/. Also carrying nothing on midsection. Very lean; close to <10% body fat last done at YMCA.

Thanks as always and Sincerely,

WebbyR

Hi WebbyR,

Unfortunately there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to predict which topper will be the best match for you and your mattress using specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance. I also don’t have a reference point of a mattress that has worked well for you and I also don’t know the specifics of the Optimum Brasswood. The only way to know with any certainty which topper would work best for your mattress and you would be based on your own personal testing or experience. There may be some trial and error involved so any return or exchange policies at the retailer or manufacturer you choose to buy from may also be a more important part of your purchase choices.

Having said that … and based on your feedback … it sounds like you could benefit from a softer zone in your upper body to “allow” your shoulders to sink in more deeply when you are sleeping on your side.

I don’t know of anyone that makes a custom zoned topper so you would probably need to put it together yourself.

Since you seem to prefer the feel of Dunlop latex based on your mattress choice I would guess that a reasonable starting point would be to buy a 2" Dunlop topper that was somewhere in the medium density/firmness range and then start by trying this on your mattress.

It may be OK by itself but if it seems suitable for the lower part of your body and you still need a softer shoulder zone then you can cut off a section from the head end of your topper and replace it with something softer.

I would calculate a cut line that was the distance from the top of your head to about 2" above your belly button and then add the distance between your head and the top of your mattress or headboard. This would give you a softer section under your ribcage and shoulders.

You can use an electric knife to cut your latex and then you can purchase another topper in the same thickness and in a size that will give you enough material to cut a section that is the same size as the piece you cut off from your original topper and is about 8 - 10 ILD softer to allow your shoulders to sink in more deeply.

Some of the better online sources I’m aware of for latex layers are in the component post here.

Phoenix

Invaluable post Phoenix. I will consider all options before making a decision as well as when the funds come in.

Thanks as always.

Sincerely,

WebbyR

ps. thinking a nice med firm Dunlop topper would be fine and might finally get body up to head height if I make my own topper. First need to worry about other bills, then figure how to afford two separate latex pads while hoping my deep pocket sheets will accommodate ha.

I apologize for double posting but I wanted to clarify this before I go any further: I am guessing by medium firm you mean something like this to first start off (25 ILD) http://www.rockymountainmattress.com/natural-latex-products/natural-latex-dunlop-medium-firm/ ? My mattress is actually quite soft with my heavy weights on those first few inches so didn’t know if I should try firm plush first.

I already have a mattress pad to protect the mattress, which I have grown to love for its support. Could the latex fit under that or directly under the sheets (which appears to have room if not, new sheets…)? In either case, I would get the bamboo covering to protect it. I just don’t know where it would fit in my layers (which has metal platform bed, loads of sticky rubber to help prevent sliding, then actual bed curtain, then mattress covered by pad, then sheets, then blankets, then quilt) with probably more sticky foam to prevent sliding between mattress and sheets.

Also, do you know if I order two different toppers from Rocky Mountain, are all sales final as usual IE. no returns so no experimentation?

Thanks so much,

WebbyR

WebbyR

Hi WebbyR,

Yes … something in the mid to higher 20’s in terms of ILD. Your mattress is “supposed” to be fairly firm but of course firmness is always subjective and relative to each person’s perceptions and a mattress that is too firm for one person can feel too soft for someone else even if they are in a similar weight range.

Depending on what type it is … your mattress pad may be reducing the ability of the latex underneath it to contour to the shape of your body and allow some parts of your body (such as your shoulders) to sink in “enough”. It could also be reducing the amount of support under some of the more recessed parts of your body as well. It may be worth considering experimenting with how your mattress feels without the mattress pad which could be contributing to some of the issues you were mentioning.

Yes … a topper would generally go under a mattress pad (or a mattress protector) and under your sheets. Latex is very heavy and “sticky” and shouldn’t have any issues with shifting.

I would always confirm this with a manufacturer but as far as I know they don’t have a return policy for their toppers (see the page here which excludes toppers from their 90 night satisfaction guarantee).

I would make sure that the first first topper (before you start cutting) has a good exchange or return policy so you can confirm that it has a suitable ILD for the lower part of your body.

Once you start cutting then you will only need to order a smaller size such as a twin XL for the smaller zoning piece (and some suppliers sell odd sizes or pieces).

Phoenix

ok, I finally got someone to take a picture of me laying on my side showing hips altering spinal arch and shoulders too high. Can I post it here? I am now thinking maybe some 2x4’s under the mattress for midsection might be better than altering the top.

ps. Laying on back is great still. I do not know rules on sharing personal details: ie medical issues affecting sleep/spine/etc
pps. I just put a folded wool blanket under mattress for more support for hips area on part of bed I do sleep and seems to have improved side laying. I will try that for a few days.

Hi WebbyR,

You are certainly welcome to attach a picture to your post or add any other information that may be useful although I’m not sure how helpful it will be in deciding on the types of changes that have the best chance of being successful because there can be so many variables that are part of any sleeping issue … especially when there are health issues involved which can make things much more complex and unpredictable.

The first step is to decide on which parts of the body need to sink in either less or more and whether the changes you are looking for are about primary or secondary support or pressure relief.

There is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief and firmness in post #4 here and in post #2 here that may help you visualize what good support/alignment and pressure relief “looks like”.

Phoenix

I was told I had moderate scoliosis long ago, but doctor said I was fine as long as i keep active & work back muscles etc. I also needed to angle bed for acid reflux etc which has not been a problem for 10 years. I sleep great on this bed when I’m on my back; comfort is awesome and sink just right. However, whenever I sleep longer than usual 6-7 hours, I find myself in a side lying position. Each time I wake up with lower back pain. I also cannot really fall asleep in side lying position as it is uncomfortable initially. I don’t know if that is related to any medical condition but just trying to alter support for side lying while retaining what I have for back lying.

ps. Thanks for all your help. I noticed with the wool blanket underneath my pelvis I was more able to sleep on side and awoke with no lower back pain, but the back position seemed less comfortable than previous arrangement

Attached: a little illustration loosely drawn point to point via picture.


.

Hi WebbyR,

It’s not really possible to tell much from an outline or even a single picture because each person is very different and has their own alignment range where they don’t experience any symptoms (see post #7 here about “learned” alignment vs a “theoretical” best alignment for example) and the actual symptoms you experience are always more important than “theory” but the alignment in the outline you drew looks fairly good compared to the illustrations here and there is only a slight spinal curve which is fairly normal when you are sleeping on your side.

Having said that … If a blanket under your pelvis area reduced or eliminated your back pain then it certainly seems that your alignment is benefiting from center zoning in your mattress. Again … I would always go by the symptoms you experience more than any “theory”.

“Comfort” is strictly subjective so I’m not sure what it means to you or what would make your mattress more “comfortable” for you but I would always prioritize alignment and the elimination of any specific symptoms that you are experiencing over more subjective perceptions of “comfort” anyway (comfort is often just a matter of getting used to the feel of a different mattress) because you can’t feel your mattress when you are sleeping so your body will respond to alignment and pressure relief over the course of the night much more than “comfort” or how your mattress “feels”. Your mattress is fairly firm apparently (based on the description because I don’t have any personal experience with it) so if your alignment is good with center zoning then depending on what you mean by comfort it may be worthwhile adding a relatively thin topper to the zoned mattress to improve your “comfort” so that you can work towards having the best of all worlds (good alignment, good pressure relief, and good “comfort”).

Phoenix

So I’ve lost some weight due to being sick. I noticed too much pressure was being put on my coccyx, causing pain so am now awaiting a callback from Rocky Mountain. Thanks