Nightly hip pain and after Leesa: what next?

My quest to find a mattress that doesn’t have me reaching for a liquigel at 4am continues. I’m 5’7", 140 pounds and even though I have slight sciatica issues I don’t experience back pain during the day. My hips are slightly narrower than my shoulders. I sleep on my side with a king size pillow between my knees. My regular pillow is latex. I have also made myself a small latex pillow that I use in the crook of my waist as it seems to help but not enough to sleep through the night.

I experience nightly, bilateral pain around hips, “iliac crest” at waist level and sometimes its also in the front of my hips (but not abductors). If you were to rest a hand on your hip, that’s where I hurt.

So far I’ve tried:

  1. a too firm 100% latex mattress. Aside from pressure points + scapular pain and arm numbness I really did not like the bouncy feel of latex which felt like a constant vibration to me. I hurt everywhere.
  2. a 3 yr old (ish) coil medium firmness mattress made by a local manufacturer and tweaked until I lost patience. Not only did the manufacturer adjust the comfort layers but I purchased a 2" 4lb density memory foam topper and also a high density 1" poly foam topper. I’ve tried every conceivable combination with these and the two toppers together (ie softest) are the worst even though they initially feel like heaven.
  3. Lastly; the Leesa. I actually liked the Leesa better than my coil mattress after having slept on it for almost 1 month. My husband thought it was firmer than our old mattress and we ended up putting our 2" memory foam topper on it for more softness. It still wasn’t “the one” so we returned it. My pain is worse now that I’m back to the coil.

I am so confused as to what softness I need given my situation. On one hand it seems that a firmer mattress + one comfort topper is somewhat better. But I’m also wondering if, being a side sleeper with narrower hips, going softer than medium would allow for better sinkage overall. My question is: Does it matter if the mattress underneath the topper is medium or firm - does the topper itself determine the mattresses’ firmness or is the reason that more toppers = more pain that I’m then sinking into something not soft enough? Does this make sense?

Hi COJ,

I’m sorry to hear that you’re still not sleeping well.:frowning: I remember you have bulging discs in L4-L5. Even if you don’t have pain during the day, the forces upon your spine are of course different than when lying upon your side.

Depending upon the mattress you’re using, this can help or exacerbate your issues. A mattress that is too firm, not allowing your hips and shoulders to sink in enough, will cause an area to be poorly supported in the lumbar region and a small pillow in this area, as long as it is not too hard, can be assistive. If the mattress overall is too soft, using this pillow can actually make things worse, as it could sharpen the angle of the thoracic/lumbar junction.

I remember this mattress, and as I surmised a few years ago, it seemed to be both too firm of a core and not enough surface plushness (both in amount and ILD), and the change from 21 ILD on top to 32 ILD was unfortunately a step in the wrong direction.

[quote]
2) a 3 yr old (ish) coil medium firmness mattress made by a local manufacturer and tweaked until I lost patience. Not only did the manufacturer adjust the comfort layers but I purchased a 2" 4lb density memory foam topper and also a high density 1" poly foam topper. I’ve tried every conceivable combination with these and the two toppers together (ie softest) are the worst even though they initially feel like heaven
[/quote].
Again, as we talked about in 2015, I’m not sure of the layering in this product so I can’t comment upon this configuration. However, it does sound like the addition of a softer surface comfort layer in memory foam was advantageous, at least for a while.

Having some softer material on top, allowing you to “bend into” the mattress a bit more, but with a gentler support core, seems to be pointing you closer to the right direction. I had mentioned in 2015 about using some less resilient materials on top (like memory foam) and this seems to have provided some slightly better results. Adding the memory foam topper might have been too much surface plushness, as that would have been a total of 6" of very soft comfort material on top of the mattress. Perhaps something using memory foam in the upper layer and either a second layer of memory foam or a softer high-density polyfoam as a transition layer might be worth investigating. Another suggestion that I mentioned previously that might be helpful in more difficult situations is some kind of zoning (see post #11 here ).

Unfortunately, as I stated before, I can’t feel what you feel or see you sleeping on the mattress and there are so many variables or possibilities involved that without much more detailed and specific information it’s not really possible to make any specific suggestions based on “theory” in situations such as yours that involve a combination of your mattress and more complex medical issues. It does seem that you are responding better to less resilient materials in the upper comfort layers (memory foam) and deeper support layers like a polyfoam core versus a spring unit.

Have you investigated working with a health professional that is familiar with your specific health situation and also familiar with different types of mattress materials and construction that may be able to provide some suggestions?

The layers closest to your body (the uppermost layers) will have the greatest impact upon your comfort and be the most noticeable when changed in a different design. The deeper layers will have less of an impact upon the perceived surface comfort, and they primarily contribute to the overall support and alignment. I know I’ve linked to it previously for you, but there is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress (or a mattress/topper combination) in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

While it might be more information than you desire…all the layers of a mattress actually compress simultaneously not sequentially and they will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions).

While “going through” a layer is commonly used as a way to explain things because there is a different amount of force that “goes through” a layer and compresses the next layer of the mattress depending on the hysteresis of the material (how much energy it absorbs) and on how point elastic the material is (how much compression affects or is affected by the surrounding areas of the layer) … it would be just as accurate to say that you will “feel through” the top layer meaning that you will feel the properties of the next layer down to different degrees. Every layer of a mattress affects and is affected by every other layer in the mattress to different degrees.

The compression of each layer (mainly controlled by thickness, firmness, compression modulus, hysteresis, and position along with a few other specs) are what creates the pressure relieving cradle of a mattress in the top layers which re-distributes weight and pressure on the bony prominences and pressure points of the body while the resistance to further compression of the deeper layers is what “stops” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and putting the spine and joints out of their natural alignment. The balance between the opposing needs of pressure relief and spinal alignment is the main factor behind all mattress design and theory and why different mattresses match the body types and sleeping positions and preferences of different people … or don’t. You seem to be leaning toward a bit more substantial less resilient surface comfort.

There is no formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience and that was why I recommended you seek out something local with the ability to customize or exchange, and plan on spending a decent amount of time (at least 30 minutes) testing any particular configuration.

I know this isn’t a specific answer of, “Go out and but mattress XYZ,” but if such an answer was possible I certainly would give it to you in a heartbeat! .:slight_smile:

I hope that information has been helpful to you, although I know some of it was a little repetitive from a few years ago.

Phoenix

Many thanks Phoenix, excellent attention as usual, really appreciated.

“Have you investigated working with a health professional that is familiar with your specific health situation and also familiar with different types of mattress materials and construction that may be able to provide some suggestions?”

I wish I could find such a person! I’ve worked with a number of massage therapists, osteopaths, sports therapist & the like but they’ve all offered the standard “firm mattress is best for backs” type of advice. I truly feel that my L4-5 bulge is not the sole true culprit as it gives me almost zero trouble otherwise. It keeps me persevering in at least trying to find a good mattress match. I go through periods where I put it aside and endure but then I get so exhausted and realize I can;t pop pills every night so I soldier on.

One thing I’ve noticed is that I seemed to move a lot less in my sleep on the Leesa and while I woke up several times a night I would be on whichever side I was previously on. On our coil mattress I kung fu fight all night :huh: and often find myself waking up on my stomach which is not my usual sleep position. ?

“Having some softer material on top, allowing you to “bend into” the mattress a bit more, but with a gentler support core, seems to be pointing you closer to the right direction”

Am I correct in assuming that the Leesa or similar foam mattresses will be softer overall than a coil mattress by its nature (though I understand that a firm foam can be very firm)?

"Perhaps something using memory foam in the upper layer and either a second layer of memory foam or a softer high-density polyfoam as a transition layer might be worth investigating. "

I would guess that a foam mattress in a “soft” version would be a better match? Do you think the thickness of the middle/transition layer matter in my case?

My husband is interested in trying the Luxi because of its customization claims but I’ve read reviews that stated that none of the combinations really amounted to a great fit. I’m at the point where I’ll try them all…

Hi COJ,

You’re welcome. I wish I had better answers for you what I’m able to provide.

The forces placed upon your spine while upright are of course in a different direction than when supine or prone. While you do have the pre-existing specific condition of a bulging disc, I would agree it’s not the whole source of your issue, but rather a combination of the bulging of your discs, the different pull of gravity when sleeping, and the difficulty of finding a product that can best help to minimize/combat these issues during the night.

Kung fu fight? That’s funny. :lol: The lower amount of repositioning can be due to your greater comfort (lowering of pressure points), which seems to be indicated with you when you use the lower resilience foams on the surface. It could also be from being “cradled” a bit more, so you are able to relax a bit better and maintain fewer “micro-contractions” to stabilize yourself while sleeping.

Not necessarily. The surface comfort can be plush with either a spring or foam mattress. The most common definition of softness has to do with the pressure relieving qualities of a mattress. This comes from the upper layers of the mattress and how well they re-distribute weight away from any pressure points. If you read post #6 here it describes someone floating in the air in good alignment and gradually being lowered onto a mattress. At first only the more “pointy parts” of the body will contact the mattress and all the weight is concentrated there. As you gradually sink in deeper more of the body surface begins to take up weight and relieve pressure on the parts that were initially in contact with the mattress. Eventually enough of the body surface is bearing weight that there are no perceptible pressure points. This is why the depth of the pressure relieving cradle and the materials that are used in the top layers are so important.

Some people need more pressure relief than others because they are either more sensitive, have less muscle tone, sleep in more pressure prone positions, or because their capillaries “collapse” more easily for various reasons. These people will generally do best with the maximum possible depth of cradle that is beneficial but more than this introduces new risks for alignment that have no pressure relieving benefit.

A “foam” mattress is of course a very broad term, but usually this is described as something using a polyfoam core and then multiple layers of polyfoam, memory foam or latex placed on top of that for the comfort layers. In your case, I was suggesting, based upon your feedback, that you may wish to investigate something using 1-2 memory foam layers on top (maximum I normally would suggest considering is 4" total), with memory foam being the uppermost layer. But that’s just a suggestion from a distance.

The terms (soft, plush, medium, etc.) are not standardized in the industry (nor could they be) because of every individual’s perception of the definition of those terms. All memory foam used in mattresses would generally be considered to be in the “plush” range, but there are of course different comforts based upon density, resilience, plasticizers, rate of recovery and response to temperature, just to name a few. The key is finding the right amount of plushness for you that assists in allowing you to sink in enough, but isn’t too resilient (as you’ve commented you don’t like that feel), but while at the same time allowing for enough deep support that your alignment isn’t compromised.

The Luxi (you can do a forum search on Luxi and read my comments about them by clicking here) offers a unique concept with three different comforts in one mattress by the rearranging of their inner layers. The Support Balancing Technology is a unique engineered piece of foam, and it is possible that something like this might be comfortable for you. They do offer a 100 night sleep trial if you order one, should things not turn out as well as you had hoped.

Regarding reviews, while they can be useful to gauge the reputation of a business, they are not a reliable indicator of the quality or appropriateness of an item for any particular person.

Phoenix