Novosbed Vs. Brooklyn Bedding BME

After striking out with the Nest Alexander Hybrid, trying to decide what would be the better of the two:
Novosbed Medium
Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress Ever

Anyone have any experience with these two. Honestly, just trying to get one and be done with it. Think either of these would be a solid fit, but would like to hear any feedback of those who have tried one or both.

Thanks.

I would love to hear as well, At this point these are the 2 I’m considering. I would think they would have pretty different feels?? Both seem to use good materials and both seem to have awesome customer service. Will be interesting to see what people have to say??

Bryce

Hi karl235,

You can read some comments in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful (especially about using reviews or other people’s suggestions or recommendations and about the the differences between latex and memory foam).

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

The only way to know which of the two would be “best for you” (regardless of which one would be best for anyone else) will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal sleeping experience because different people with different body types, different sleeping positions, and different perceptions and preferences can have very different opinions about how two mattresses will compare. It’s also unlikely that you will find many people that have tried both since memory foam and latex are such different materials that most people would either tend to prefer and try either one or the other.

I’m not sure what you’ve read since you found the site but just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place I would start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else (including me) would have the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.

In its simplest form choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …

  1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

  2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

  3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

Just looking for a top quality medium mattress for under $1500.

Too much advertising online - hard to find real honest and critical reviews. Everyone is trying to sell you something.

Pretty cranky and tired from not getting a good nights sleep with current mattress so just wondering if anyone can provide some honest feedback on what works for them.

Perused the forum for some previous feedback and leaning towards the BB BME.

cheers.

Hi karl235,

You certainly have many great options in your budget range.

if you are looking at online options then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may also be worth considering.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article). The most reliable way to know which types of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in general will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience.

As I mentioned in my earlier reply … while other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful, I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Because your own personal experience is the only way to know for certain whether any mattress will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP … the exchange/return policy (and any costs involved) can also be a more important part of the “value” of an online purchase just in case (and in spite of the “best judgement” of everyone involved) the choice you make doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

Phoenix

Wanted to check in and see if you had made any decisions? Or had any other thought?

After weeks of research my wife and I have narrowed it down to these two as well.

All i can say is that it really comes down to preference.

Memory foam or Latex hybrid?

Both are well made and reasonably affordable. Both are well reviewed.

I’d suggest that you take 30 minutes to go to a local mattress store. Try a memory foam (A reviewer said Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme Breeze was as a good comparison to Novosbed) and try a latex hybrid like the BME.

We’re still debating. I want the support of the memory foam but I don’t think i like the lack of bounce. It makes turning over in the middle of the night REALLY difficult. Especially if you’re going firm. Latex’s bounce is also much more conducive to “social activities” that happen on the bed. That’s also very important to me.

So as much as i really like the Novosbed (and in a vacuum of just sleep quality that would be my choice) we may choose the BME. That said, I might also go with a medium Novosbed and see how the comfort+ topper works out.

Let me know what you choose!

Hi GoHatters,

It’s not common for the vendors to respond, but I have it on good authority that Phoenix endorses it; so here goes.

Speaking to your concerns about how memory foam “makes turning over in the middle of the night REALLY difficult, especially if you’re going firm”:

In our opinion (and I believe that Phoenix will agree with me), one of the most important properties to look for when shopping for a mattress with memory foam is its density. Density goes hand-in-hand with longevity, but also affects how far you “sink-in”. Firmness, as measured by IFD (“Indentation Load Deflection”), only measures the amount of force required to depress the foam by 1". An average-sized sleeper on a low density memory foam will “sink in” more purely by virtue of the fact that there is less material between him/her and the surface beneath the memory foam. The same average-sized sleeper on high density foam will sink in less. All Novosbed mattresses use high-density foams, and we almost never have sleepers complaining about “sinking in” too much, or having difficulty turning over - especially on our medium and firm mattresses…

With respect to “social activities”, well… this is far too influenced by personal preference for me to weigh in, except to say this: if the memory foam in your Novosbed is interfering, then we’ll send you a Comfort+ to add some bounce back :slight_smile:

Hope that helps.

I too am a Alexander Hybrid user who has struck out with it. I was veering towards the BBBME, staying away from foam entirely, but the last comment has piqued my interest. So the density level of the foam plays a more important part in determining firmnrss level. If that is the case, how can one tell exactly how dense the foam is going to be. For instance the Alexander hybrid is memory & gel foam, is one or the other less dense in composition?

Hi Novosbed and Loiroi,

I’m always happy if the retail or manufacturing members here respond as long as it’s not “promotional” and is in response to specific comments or questions or is more “generic” information that isn’t specific to a manufacturer.

[quote]In our opinion (and I believe that Phoenix will agree with me), one of the most important properties to look for when shopping for a mattress with memory foam is its density. Density goes hand-in-hand with longevity, but also affects how far you “sink-in”. Firmness, as measured by IFD (“Indentation Load Deflection”), only measures the amount of force required to depress the foam by 1". An average-sized sleeper on a low density memory foam will “sink in” more purely by virtue of the fact that there is less material between him/her and the surface beneath the memory foam. The same average-sized sleeper on high density foam will sink in less. All Novosbed mattresses use high-density foams, and we almost never have sleepers complaining about “sinking in” too much, or having difficulty turning over - especially on our medium and firm mattresses…

the last comment has piqued my interest. So the density level of the foam plays a more important part in determining firmnrss level.[/quote]

Actually while this can “sometimes” be correct … it certainly isn’t always the case. While the density of memory foam is certainly the single biggest factor in durability … density isn’t directly related to the firmness, “feel” or properties of memory foam and higher density memory foam can be softer than lower density memory foam or vice versa. For example with the Novosbed the medium firmness level uses 5 lb memory foam in both layers while the firm uses a combination of 4 and 5 lb memory foam. Different types or formulations can also have different properties as well that are independent of density (such as greater or less temperature sensitivity, breathability, faster or slower response, or different firmness levels). There is more about the different properties that can be formulated into memory foam in post #9 here and post #8 here.

I would agree that with most of the more modern memory foam mattresses that have a faster response that changing positions isn’t “really difficult” but depending on the specific formulation of the memory foam and on the thickness of the memory foam layers and the other layers and components of the mattress it would still be more “motion restricting” than more resilient materials. For some people this is part of the reason that they prefer memory foam and for others it’s part of the reason that they tend to prefer more resilient materials.

There is more about mattresses and memory foam and sex in post #2 here. You certainly won’t find any agreement or consensus about this but it would probably be safe to say that there are more people who would tell you that more resilient materials such as latex and polyfoam and innersprings that have more resilience or “bounce” would probably be their preference over less resilient materials that have little to no bounce such as memory foam but you will also find a significant and vocal minority that have completely different preferences and love their memory foam mattresses for sex as much as they do sleeping … although it may have taken some experimenting or getting used to :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Agreed: formulation is one of the major factors affecting “sluggishness” of a memory foam. I can’t speak for other companies, but Novosbeds are made from newer foams with fast-response formulations, and “sluggish response” is not an issue with our mattresses.

To clarify my point from before: we’ve observed that “sink-in” and the resulting “dig-out” are more problematic on lower density memory foam beds (and particularly exaggerated for average and heavier people). We attribute this to the fact that elastic response of foam is not linear and becomes exponential at the “densification” region of the curve - the point where the foam is so compressed that it’s mass begins to exert more force than its cell structure. Denser foams reach this densification point faster, and begin transferring excess load to the support foam beneath earlier. Because the foam beneath is 100% elastic, the overall response of the mattress is faster.

We validated this observation with a 50lb 11" mattress (composed of low-density foams) that was sent to us by a manufacturer several years ago. We observed that while people very light people who didn’t compress the foam enough to reach the densification point didn’t experience that “stuck-in” feeling, average and heavier people did. None of the same subjects experienced the “stuck-in” feeling when conducting the same test on mattresses composed of ultra dense foams.

It’s easy to get lost in the technical details. The reality is that it’s very hard to describe the exact feel of a mattress (Phoenix would say that it’s like trying to answer the question: “what does corn taste like?”), and it’s something that needs to be experienced. This is the biggest challenge for companies like Novosbed, who sell exclusively online. Our approach has been to build mattresses that fit the colloquial definitions of “Soft”, “Medium”, and “Firm” mattresses, and then to offer the option of an in-home adjustment with Comfort+.

In answer to your question Loiroi, about where you can find foam densities: these should be readily apparent on a website. If they aren’t, then check the shipping weight of the mattress. If it’s less than 80lbs (for a queen), than there’s a good chance it uses lower density foams.

I hope this helps! :slight_smile:

It’s great to see a vendor taking part in these forums and I think Novosbed might be next attempt as well after I return my Alexander Hybrid. My only question is whether to go with the soft or the medium. Which I have been told compare well to the Tempurpedic Could Luxe and Supreme respectively. I am around 145lbs and had been leaning towards the medium with the thought that if its too firm it probably wouldn’t be by too much and can add the comfort+ layer. I understand the confort+ is a polyfoam layer though. My concern would be putting polyfoam on top of memory foam could lessen some of the memory foam conforming properties.

Hi zexpress,

A memory foam mattress has both an elastic and viscous response to sleepers, the latter of which only provides resistance in a dynamic phase (i.e. when you’re moving around). Once you’ve settled into your bed and are still, the viscous response falls away, leaving only the elastic response (which is what you feel as the support).

Through testing (after trying about 40 combinations of foam) we concluded that the best way to alter a mattresses’ firmness without adding a whole bunch of height is to focus entirely on its elastic response - hence our choice to use conventional foam. We found that 2" of conventional foam is not enough, especially with a softening Comfort+, to interfere with the contouring benefits of memory foam - so this should not be a concern.

I wanted to make one last point, even at the risk of losing a potential customer: please be aware of the environmental impact of returning your mattress, and ensure that you’ve done all you can to make it work before returning it. With the massive increase in competition over the last year there are many more mattresses making their ways to carpet underlay grinders (and even landfills), simply because donation sites are filling up. Some cities, like NYC, are actually prohibiting donations altogether, which means that perfectly good mattresses are being ground up after as little as 30 days of use. We are hopeful that more innovations like Comfort+ emerge, and that the “one size fits all” myth is dispelled by the reality that comfort is a very personal thing.

Hi Novosbed (Sam),

Just to help visualize the different compression curves of different materials (also known as a stress/strain curve) … if you scroll down to page 91 in this document (page 10 of the pdf itself) you will see some compression curves for 4 different densities of memory foam and for latex and HR foam as well. The “densification region” of the curve that Sam was talking about is where the curve begins to rise sharply upwards which indicates that even with increasing force the material doesn’t compress any further and this is also known as the area where the foam “bottoms out”. You will notice that among other general differences (such as the amount of initial resistance to compression forces) that lower density memory foams will generally “bottom out” with less compression force (stress).

Different formulations and densities of memory foam can each have their own specific properties and compression curves but in general terms lower density memory foam will bottom out more easily while higher density memory foams will have a wider range of pressure that they can respond to without bottoming out.

As you know I certainly enjoy our conversations … and I completely agree with your comments (and mine) that the “feel” of a mattress (or the taste and texture of different foods) is very difficult to describe in words and is something that is best experienced :slight_smile:

@ zexpress

You would certainly “feel” more of the properties of any layers in a “sleeping system” that are closer to the surface than layers that are deeper in the mattress so the comfort+ topper would change and modify how the memory foam underneath it responds to both heat and pressure the but the reason for the comfort+ topper is to do exactly that and modify the response of the memory foam underneath it which is why it’s an option for those whose initial choice is either too firm or too soft and needs to be “fine tuned”. I would imagine (and Sam can confirm the accuracy of this) is that it’s an option that only a minority of their customers would need.

Phoenix

[quote=“Novosbed” post=62079]Hi zexpress,

A memory foam mattress has both an elastic and viscous response to sleepers, the latter of which only provides resistance in a dynamic phase (i.e. when you’re moving around). Once you’ve settled into your bed and are still, the viscous response falls away, leaving only the elastic response (which is what you feel as the support).

Through testing (after trying about 40 combinations of foam) we concluded that the best way to alter a mattresses’ firmness without adding a whole bunch of height is to focus entirely on its elastic response - hence our choice to use conventional foam. We found that 2" of conventional foam is not enough, especially with a softening Comfort+, to interfere with the contouring benefits of memory foam - so this should not be a concern.

I wanted to make one last point, even at the risk of losing a potential customer: please be aware of the environmental impact of returning your mattress, and ensure that you’ve done all you can to make it work before returning it. With the massive increase in competition over the last year there are many more mattresses making their ways to carpet underlay grinders (and even landfills), simply because donation sites are filling up. Some cities, like NYC, are actually prohibiting donations altogether, which means that perfectly good mattresses are being ground up after as little as 30 days of use. We are hopeful that more innovations like Comfort+ emerge, and that the “one size fits all” myth is dispelled by the reality that comfort is a very personal thing.[/quote]

Thanks, that is really helpful in explaining how your comfort+ layer works. Believe me I have definitely wanted to make this mattress work as I have had it for nearly 2 months now. I just simply am finding myself sinking in too much and it feeling too much like a traditional mattress for my comfort. I agree that your adjustment system is a better way to go and was a big factor in why I was considering Novosbed as my replacement.

Are you saying that the Novosbed would provide one with a less sink age feeling because of its concentration on the elastic properties of the foam used. Like zexpress, I have the Alexander hybrid, & we have both discussed this mattress in another forum, where we found it to be too soft. I too am curious as what one might expect differently in the Nova bed, though I understand this is highly subjective.

As to returning mattresses via a charitable donation, I’m beginning to realize the difficulties involved. As a NYC resident, I’m finding most organizations aren’t interested. So far I have only one charity that is somewhat interested, & I’m waiting to see if they found a place for it. So though it seems returns are used as an incitement to purchase, , that might not necessarily be so easy depending on your location.

Hi Loiroi,

“Sinkage” is really a meaningless term that has been popularized by many “so called” review sites. It’s really just another word for firmness (you will sink into a softer mattress more than a firmer mattress).

I would also keep in mind that there are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for mattress firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer.

Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Trying to describe very complex, subjective, and “nuanced” sensations and perceptions on a forum using written and more “linear” communications is much more difficult than a verbal conversation on the phone (see post #4 here).

Phoenix

Hi Loiroi,

Phoenix is right - “soft”, “medium”, and “firm” are extremely subjective. When quantifying these terms for our beds we employed a questionnaire that helped normalize firmness to common experiences, rather than words. For example, “if you were staying at a friend’s house, would you rather sleep on their carpeted floor, their carpeted floor with a folded comforter beneath you, their couch, or their couch with a folded comforter beneath you.” We used this approach when matching words to our mattresses, and employ similar approaches when speaking with people over the phone.

As for returns: there are several services in NYC that can pick up and recycle your mattress for a fee. I can’t speak to the policies of our competition, but Novosbed usually organizes for pickups to happen within a few days, and covers any associated fees.

Hi Novosbed, thank you for your response, the questions you ask potential customers certainly provide clarification as to what would best suit one. I am aware that services exist for a fee, I was just hoping to find someone in need. The company I bought the mattress from will find a place to donate it to, but charges a fee for the pickup.